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Kharn the Betrayer
Chaos Lord - Axe of Blind Fury, MoK and Sigil of Cor.

Chaos Cultists - 15 x Autopistol, 1 Champ with Shotgun.
Marines - 16 w/ Pistol + CCW, 1 Plasma Pistol + CCW, Champion w/ Power Sword. MoK and Icon of Wrath.
Marines - 5, Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol for Champ.
Marines - 5, Plasma Gun
Marines - 5, Melta Gun

10 Bikers - 2 Plasma Guns, Vets, MoK, Icon of Wrath.

3 Obliterators w/ MoN


It's a starter army. Not looking for anything particularly competitive.

What I had in mind was to use the cultists to screen as the Marines blob + Kharn + Chaos Lord (which is the main hammer) moved up. Bikers move up the side and pack a punch. Oblits take out any heavy targets. Small units offer support + take objectives.

I've already bought and painted 10 of the CC marines, and Kharn, and would prefer to use them. For Lords and Champions, I'm going off the Chosen + Kranon from the DV set. I'm mainly looking for thoughts on:
the Oblits and the Bikers - would something else be more suitable?
The three small marines units - Good/bad? Different loadout? something else entirely?
The Chaos Lord - I could use any loadouts from the DV Chosen.

But if anything else sticks out, feel free to point it out! Thanks!

Where to start....

Meat shields are a good idea, especially if you're not going to use assault transports, they don't guarantee you making combat though, and you're still pretty slow.

5 man marine squads are usually too small and will perish quickly.

Kharn is an awesome character, I run him myself, but why no bezerkers? One of his biggest plus points is making bezerkers troops choices, and I think they're better than normal MoK CSM. They lose the bolt gun, but gain better weapon skill, fearless and don't rely in the banner bearer staying alive for furious charge. Since you have CSM with pistols and CCW why not run them as zerkers?

Here's what I would do with this list (it is personal preference)

Drop the 5 melta gun marines, melta guns are pointless without transport and speed. Reduce the bike squad to around 6. 10 makes it very hard to hide them. Replace the bikes plasma with melta guns. Now you have a fast tank popping unit. Since the bikes are now hunting tanks, give them a MoN, make them T6 and hard to wound. I'd also make your lord MoN, I know he can't take the AoBF but there is a reason. Perhaps use the Mace champ out of the DV box and give him the black mace. Being MoN then allows you to take plague marines as troops. Upgrade your two remain squads of plasma carrying CSM to plasma carrying plague marines for T5, fearless, blight grenades poison weapons and FNP. Then give each squad a rhino, and you have some pretty decent objective holders.

Just what I would do...

I often tell people to just play codex:nurgle n khaines wrath does agree.

If you do run kb then get lr

Kind of. I'm a huge Khorne fan. My list has 2 squads of zerkers and 2 land raiders. It means I massively lack numbers, and I HAVE to a squad of plague marines to stand a chance of holding an objective.

I see what you mean about the small squads. I hadn't considered Plague Marines, I wasn't particularly interested in Nurgle, but I'll definitely consider it. I assume the +1 T is included in their profile?

And the bikes thing - I'll definitely do that. That sounds fantastic.

Are Berzerkers really worth the points? If you drop the bolter for CCW, a Marine is 15 points w/ MoK, Berserkers are 19. The Marines will be fearless thanks to the ICs. Is WS 5 and more reliable FC worth 4 points/model? I really wouldn't know due to lack of experience...

I'm trying to stay away from big things like LRs for now, until I get settled into the army.

Thanks a lot! You've really helped!

Well, to get furious charge you need the icon is 25 points. That's 2.5 points per marine. That makes them 17.5 points per marine. But if the banner dies you lose furious charge. And I believe that +1 strength is really worth it.

The +1 weapon skill means you're hitting most things on 3+, which combined with the strength means you're hitting MEQ's on 3's and then wounding on 3's. Bezerkers with kharn are unleashing 4 attacks on the charge, and with his hatred re roll all their to hit rolls that were unsuccessful. If you force that many saves on anything it's going to struggle. My 8 maz bezerker squad with kharn has decimated terminator squads, just with sheer number of attacks.

As for nurgle, I'm a Khorne fan boy, but Plague marines are arguably the best infantry unit in the book. If you can make them a troops choice with a nurgle lord then they're even better. A T5 marine with a 3+ save and a 5+ feel no pain that's fearless is hard to shift off of an objective. Add that to blight grenades meaning the enemy doesn't get charge bonuses, and plague knives which are poison weapons and they're ridiculously tough. Personally I'm about to start using a CSM marine box combined with a forge world death guard upgrade kit, because I think that's the nicest way to have them. I've just built my Nurgle lord, I can throw up a link if you want?

As for mark of nurgle on bikes, T6 makes them very difficult to drop, and they're probably not going to charge if they're kitted with melta guns, so you want them to survive!

The last thing I'll say - if you can, give your champs power weapons of some sort. I'd do this over plasma pistols. Both my bezerker champs have lightning claws. The reason for this is simple, you MUST issue or accept a challenge due to the 'champion of chaos' special rule, you want to give them the best possible chance of rolling on that boon table! And not being hacked apart...

All just my opinion though dude, I am by no means an expert!

You said you're staying away from big things, I was about to suggest a heldrake. Looking at the list I see you don't have dedicated anti air weapons. Obliterators only hit on 6s.
Stick in an aegis defence line with quad autocannons. Its only 100pts

 Filch wrote:
I often tell people to just play codex:nurgle n khaines wrath does agree.

If you do run kb then get lr

this. Run Plague Marines if you want to be serious, and if you run zerkers you MUST take two land raiders and kharn/a lord with AOBF(or both)

 changerofways wrote:

 Filch wrote:
I often tell people to just play codex:nurgle n khaines wrath does agree.

If you do run kb then get lr

this. Run Plague Marines if you want to be serious, and if you run zerkers you MUST take two land raiders and kharn/a lord with AOBF(or both)

But Zerkers are not advised in my view, they are ok but get expensive quick, both in points and Cash.

I would recomend, getting some of the default CSM boxes and just play a few games with those to see what Marks and Gods suit your playstyle.

Khorne + Nurgle are the most competive but I find Quite boring to play.

Slaanesh has Limited potential

Tzeench is overpriced and underpowered in my view.

Just my 2 cents.

I am so glad that I posted this here before I went out and bought more... Thanks for your input guys!

So this is what I'm thinking now:

Kharn - in with Berzerkers
Nurgle Lord - To go with a PM squad. Combi-Bolter and Power Fist?

Khorne Berserkers - 2 plasma pistols, Champ has Twin LCs. (You got me, KW)
7 x Plague Marines
7 x Plague Marines
Cultists meat shield

Heldrake with Baleflamer

Melta Bikes OR Oblits.


I'm not sure how many Berserkers there should be.... Might leave it at 11 for now (10 I have painted + DV Champ)
I know you said a meat shield isn't great, but I have the cultists already. I wanna try it out. I'll switch it for a transport later on if it doesn't go well.

I'm going with 7 PMs per squad because that's how many are in a box. Good/bad?
I don't think I need bikes with meltaguns AND the oblits, if I have a heldrake too. Which one would you keep?

I think there might be points left over, so I could make squads bigger or take something else... Maybe use the shooty marines I have to run a bit of shooty offense. Boltguns and plasma guns, I guess.

Ok, what I would do, take nurgle bikers with melta guns, and maybe give the nurgle champ a bike to go with them? Consider a sigil for him for a 4++. I know the bike isn't ideal as you're using the DV chosen guy.

If you buy plagues then they come in boxes of 7. I buy CSM boxes and forge world death guard packs, I just think they look better. It's not cheap though. But if you got two packs of the FW upgrades you could use some for the bikers.

Personally I'm not a massive oblit fan, but that's personal choice...

Hmm... The Death Guard kits look pretty cool. Since CSMs come cheaper than PMs it wouldn't be TOO expensive...

Nurgle Lord on a Bike sounds good, I'll think about that.

I still feel torn about Berserkers V CSMs, and it seems a lot of people think I'll need a transport...

I'm gonna have to think about this stuff for a while. Thanks for pointing all this stuff out, guys! I feel dumb for not seeing it myself....