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...meaning you have to break other rules.
An attack that looks like a CC attack, behaves like a CC attack, using CC weapons, is most likely a CC attack

Your non-CC attack has far less support, Occams razor style. ANd when one interpetation breaks rules - yours MOST CERTAINLY does - and the other does not (MSS as CC breaks no rules) that is even less of a reason to follow that interpretation.

I do not want to go into the full "Must be CC or Shooting" argumentation again, but i will simply say:
Raven your argument is within RaW yes? Not RaI or HIWPI?

If it is indeed only RaW you are following, then please pick whether you are following page 12, or page 20 of the rulebook?
Once you have made your decision, you will be answering your own argument as to whether it is a CC attack or not.

Lamo wrote:
Alrighty first of all you as the owner are no longer in control as i have shown a few times thus selection of smash is no longer your choice. Your point 2 i dont exactly understand ill move on past this point. third actually you cant do it durring hammer of wrath because its stated in the rule(which i think is important because by mentioning this means that without this specific amendment it would be allowed), and from my understanding there is nothing that says an imperial knight cant switch its stomp for a smash attack. Wow now having the smash rule almost makes sense on a knight... Although it does say "special attack" so im sure there can be a discusion about that.

The fact that you do not understand point 2) is why there is an issue. The point 2) was explaining to you that you never completely control an enemy model.
At any time during any game of 40k, the rules are made so that you never lay a finger on your opponents models and you never throw his dice.
Certain rules and certain situations let you force him to do certain tests, re-roll certain dice or, as for MSS force him to roll dice against himself.

Ultimately, your enemy is forced to attack his own unit/model with his character, but he is the one attacking, rolling dice, and choosing to smash. Not you.

I hope this clears point 2 a bit more.
Within was also an example of another rule (puppet master) which is also "control your enemy", but same thing, your enemy rolls the dice and control his model, not you as the opposing player.

I also think that many players would very much disagree with being able to use "Smash" instead of the stomp attack.

So I still dont see why I can't smash with MSS

You can Smash if your Necron Lord has Smash. Why would your opponent choose to use Smash against his own unit? (if he is even allowed to?)

 BlackTalos wrote:
I do not want to go into the full "Must be CC or Shooting" argumentation again, but i will simply say:
Raven your argument is within RaW yes? Not RaI or HIWPI?

If it is indeed only RaW you are following, then please pick whether you are following page 12, or page 20 of the rulebook?
Once you have made your decision, you will be answering your own argument as to whether it is a CC attack or not.

Yes, my argument is based on RAW. The rules for allocating all wounds are on page 12, page 20 is merely a modification of page 12 rules that are specific to close combat attacks, which Mindshackle Scarabs do not cause.

In your opinion, they do not cause cc attacks
On a preponepdeence of evidence, abppbased on your interpretation breaking rules,they most certainly do.

ENOUGH. You two aren't going to agree, and your repeated "yes it is" "no it isn't" posts add zero additional value to the thread.