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Flying monstrous creatures have skyfire

Where does it say that?

Rule book FAQ it also mentions about beams and suchlike not being able to hit FMCs and flyers because they don't snapshot. Although that's immediately after saying that weapons that auto hit still auto hit when firing snapshots...

So Valace2, at first biomancy looks like its what you should be rolling, but IMO its not. Hopefully I can convince you why telepathy is the better table to roll on!!

Psychic shriek great for low LD armies, if you are facing off againts Orks this is the power you want. It can also be useful in killing off Terminators if you get lucky.

I have yet to think of a match where I was upset I had this power. Its a primeras power, so you can roll your powers knowing you will get this which is huge. This power works on pretty much every army, even the higher ld ones. Also a trick to remember, YOU MAKE THE LEADERSHIP CHECK not your opponent, which means you can manipulate the roll with fateweavers reroll. Always nice to force that tripple 6 leadership check

ominate? Really it could be annoying but going up against marines with LD 9 they are going to be passing those checks more often then not, same goes for Tau and anything than can get up to ld 9, against Necrons and ld10 why would you even bother. Any target you would want to hinder is probably going to pass those checks, take Be'Lakor get access to Hallucinate and you don't need to bother with dominate

So yes, this is by far the worst (the only bad choice imo) power you could roll. Now the first time you get it usually I switch it out with shreak, Marines are also ld 8 most of the time as not many people invest points in the vets. Thats only one point higher then daemons. This can power can be game breaking at the end of the game. Even if you use it on an ld 10 unit, thats just another dice roll they have to make to do something. The more dice rolls your opponent makes, the more likely he fails a key roll.

Mental Fortitude??? Ever see a daemon fail a morale check? Oh thats right they don't have to take them. Useless.

You are missing the point, go to ground with your fmc for a better cover save, next turn mental fort yourself out. 24 inch range so you can use it on friends as well! A very clutch power to have vs most armies. I rarely ditch this.

Puppet Master... yes please and more of it. Would be nice on a prince, but again Be'Lakor comes with this stock, you don't need to roll for it.

See my comment earlier in this discussion about why I dont feel belkor has a place in competitive fmc armies under 2k (even in 2k I don't include him, but I need more testing with him to say I dislike him in 2k as well).

Terrify? How often does fear actually play into the game? Is this better than a chance at Iron Arm, Enfeeble, Warp Speed, or Endurance?

When your prince is in their backfield at the end of the game, there is nothing better then pulling off a terrify to break a unit off the table (not very hard as most scoring units hover around ld 8). and then flying over another unit to vector strike it and contest the objective. Even hailmarry terrifys on powerful units late game can be a game changer. Its just another tool in the toolbox.
Yes its useless in the mirror match, which is ok cause you take shreak. But this is a very solid power that has alot of uses.

Invisibility... again yes please and more of it. Problem here is that it is a 2 WC power, so first you have to get lucky here and roll for it, and then unless you juiced your prince up Lv3 thats all he is casting. Oh yea Be'Lakor comes with this stock

If you are running a mos prince then you are only mastery lvl 2 so thats fine, still have lash most of the time, and if you are running a mot prince then you still have one more warp charge for flickerfire. I unserstand belkor gets invis for free, but I would much rather have the chance of rolling it on 2 princes for the flexibility it provides. The theme of this army is flexibility, this army lives and dies on its ability to react to the changing conditions on the battlefield, and the toolbox of powers telepathy provides is very important. Being able to fly q prince with invis off who is about to die knowing you have another prince on the board next turn who can cast it is huge. Also MOT princes can usually turn it into a 2+ rerollable coversave

Hallucination...here is the crown jewel in my opinion, why worry about a seercouncil, screamerstar, or O'Vesa star when you can just hallucinate them. Or better yet lets make that unit of terminators punch themselves in the head with power fists. Can you imagine the fun in watching a 30 man Ork Mob start whacking each other in the head? Alas its also a 2 warp charge power and again you have get lucky and roll for it. I am not going to bother saying that Be'Lakor has access to this stock...oh wait I just did.

Can't argue with this, but why settle for one when you have the potential to get 2 or 3 (depending on the list of course).

Now lets look at Biomancy, something Be'Lakor doesn't have access to. Be'Lakor has 4 wounds, T5, and a 4+ invuln that can be changed to a 2+ with the grimoire. Fun fact Grey Knights can get a warding staff which confers a 2+ in close combat for 35 points. A 2+ INVULNERABLE save all the time is an evil thing.

When you have 5 models on the table, and entire armys worth of shooting (or even half) will drop a 2+ with no reroll, even if its an inv save. Remember smart missiles are everywhere.

Smite, yep its a shooting attack but its ap2 and you get 4 shots, will wound most xenos and coupled with enfeeble will hurt most marines.

Garbage, I hate to be so blunt here, but you only can only fire 2 weapons per turn, and I would much rather use those on a combination of higher str mutiple shots (flickerfire or lash) , or ingore cover (vector strikes or psy shreak). I have never been happy being stuck with this power.
You seem to be going back to marines alot, in the competitive meta most marine players are in rhinos or on bikes, smite is not very good vs either of these.

Iron Arm, this is the one your princes want, without it they can't hope to fight off a wraithknight, dreadknight, or even a Riptide. A smash attack from another MC will insta kill a DP. This is the power that made the Swarmlord the biggest baddest close combat fighter in 40k, well before they nerfed the Tyranids and took away Biomancy.

Yes iron arm is hands down tied for the best power in biomancy (I played nids at nova last yr, I banked on it way more then I should have). The first thing you will learn with this army is you never put a prince in combat with something that has a chance to insta gib it. Princes are to important to trade one for one with any of the units you listed. Thats lord of change or the keepers job.

So iron arm is good but on a prince you are only going to max out on t8 (33% chance, not very good odds if hes out in the open). Its not going to save you from multiple sky rays trying to down you. I would much rather stay out of their marker light range and take better cover saves. The other 66% of the time anything str 8 will still wound you on 3s, if he was t6 then it would be different.

Enfeeble, also a great power lowers strength and toughness and makes flickering fire that much more effective, also messes with terrain as an added bonus.

Great power, especially when you roll it on fateweaver, but on princes not so much. Most of the time you will start your turn out of los of your opponent, would much rather buff my army then try to land an enfeable on a unit I probably won't finish off that turn, because im going back into hiding unless its the end of the game, but id still rather buff my units in case the game goes on. The unit i can see this being most useful is to insta kill riptides, but again I would prefer to not trade a riptide for a prince, unless I can get the buff comander along with it. Very situational.

Endurance, also a great power for a t5 5 wound prince, if by chance you haven't gained these abilities through greater gifts endurance makes your prince that much more survivable.

Can't ague with this at all, so that gives you 2 out of 7 powers you want for sure, and 1 power you maybe want (enfeable).

Life Leech, an even better shooting attack than Smite, with the added bonus of being able to get wounds back, and it is AP2. Daemon Princes don't have much in the way of shooting and Life Leech is a good one.

See my comments on smite for why this power is a waste. The only time I have ever used it, was when I got it on fateweaver and used to to regain a lost wound.

Warp Speed, yes another great one for Daemon Princes, sure the Initiative boost is wasted, but lets give that high WS high strength, high Initiave daemon prince even more attacks. A Prince with Warp Speed, Iron Arm and the Grimoire is nearly unstoppable. It doesn't happen very often that you get all those things, but when it happens your Daemon Prince is a meat grinder.

Great power, but not on princes, the last thing you want to do with your princes is charge them into something that could actually hurt them. You save them for the end of the game, or a point where you can afford to make a favorable trade (usually at the end of the game) for a scoring unit. At that point warp speed MIGHT help you. Again I would rather have a power that is going to help me all game.

And your beast mode prince is one failed psy power roll away from folding like a house of cards. Not something id risk in this list.,

Haemorrhage? In my opinion the only really bad biomancy power.

a bad power, but not the worst, you can actually do quite a bit of damage with this and enfeable, (hard to do with a bunch of mastery lvl 1 bugs). but could be cute against a guard blob. But why would you roll biomancy vs guard anyways.

So at the end of the day its always about opportunity cost, the cost of rolling the 2 MAYBE 3 good biomancy powers out of 7 (imo I would rather have endurence over iron arm) is not worth ending up with potential useless powers on your princes. Where as telepathy has 6 out of 7 powers that are very good for this army. When I test for gts or even rtts and my opponents ask me if I want to test out bad powers to make me better at playing when I get those powers, My answer to them is there really is not a bad (more like less good) combination you could get with telepathy .

Of course like you said its all about how you play your army, but I have found out with extensive play testing (I have about 50+ games under my belt with this style of army) that telepathy gives you the best chance to win.

I hope this helps!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Thanks for the comments bud. I love the fact that he has access to all of telepathy, but he's 400 points when you consider the cultist tax. And that's a lot at a 1500 point list. If I pushed to 2000, he is an instant addition. Also I'm quite keen on the biomamcy powers. Add that to the fact that not taking allies allows me to take exalted rewards on DP's and give the greater daemon 2 greater gifts!

As for the drake, I just can't bring myself to bring one. I coped ok before it existed, and I've coped ok since. And he comes with a 110 point tax and will lose me a FMC. I like my 4.

How is the lash attack the best anti air? I've been trying to work this out and I must be missing something. It's not a sky fire weapon. And as far as I can tell FMC's don't get auto sky fire? I assumed that vector striking fliers was my best bet. And if their shooting attacks are assumed to have sky fire then bring on the bolt of change!

Mos princes also get +3 to run, and fleet which wins games (last minute runns onto objectives I once ran 15 inches after a 24 inch fly move to contest an objevtice).

Ok. That guide is EPIC. From both of you. I'm not switching to a slaanesh prince, I like Tzeench too much. So I'll have fatey, a LoC and 2 lvl 3 Tzeench DP's....too that end, tell me how you would roll for psychic powers in a generic sense?

Daemons don't get much more competitive than some variation of this

HQ: Fateweaver
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Disc, Locus of Conjuration
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Disc, Exalted Gift
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Disc, Exalted Gift
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Disc
Troops: Pink Horrors X 10
Troops: Pink Horrors X 10
Troops: Pink Horrors X 10
FA: Screamers of Tzeentch X 9


For the rest of your points... Well it doesn't matter. Your going to make so many friends with this list.

Serg Rush wrote:
Daemons don't get much more competitive than some variation of this

HQ: Fateweaver
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Disc, Locus of Conjuration
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Disc, Exalted Gift
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Disc, Exalted Gift
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Disc
Troops: Pink Horrors X 10
Troops: Pink Horrors X 10
Troops: Pink Horrors X 10
FA: Screamers of Tzeentch X 9


For the rest of your points... Well it doesn't matter. Your going to make so many friends with this list.

Screamer star is not as good as fmc circus imo, I have played both and played the match at least 10 times, FmC has much higher potential then the screamer star. When was the last time you saw it win a major event?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Ok. That guide is EPIC. From both of you. I'm not switching to a slaanesh prince, I like Tzeench too much. So I'll have fatey, a LoC and 2 lvl 3 Tzeench DP's....too that end, tell me how you would roll for psychic powers in a generic sense?

Depends on the match, but 90% of the time I would roll 2 tele and take flicker fire with the 3rd. You are not making a bad choice sticking to mot princes, honestly I flip flop so much on the subject its not even funny. Right now in 1850 im running all MOT princes for adepticon. But another gt that it coming up in the summer thats 2k I have mostly MOS princes lol. For me the real deciding factor is the points and how I juggle everything to fit.

Ok, so MoT DP's are arguably as good as MoS? How would you roll for The Lord of change who only has change and divination disciplines?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Ok, so MoT DP's are arguably as good as MoS? How would you roll for The Lord of change who only has change and divination disciplines?

Comparing the 2 is like apples and oranges, neither one is bad. They just excel at different things.

Lord of change is 2 on div and one for ff. You really really want 2, 5, or 6 for div, if you roll a 3 you keep it, but a 1 or 4 I usually swap out for presci, which is meh at best. The only way I keep 4 is if I roll 1 for the first roll (worthless swap for presci) and then the 2nd roll is a 4. OR I roll a 3 with my first roll and a 4 with my 2nd, that way at least ff ignores cover lol

Is prescience that bad? Surely re rolling to hit for fatey with a 5D6 flicker fire on some kinda horde?

I guess that proves your point, it's entirely situational!

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Is prescience that bad? Surely re rolling to hit for fatey with a 5D6 flicker fire on some kinda horde?

I guess that proves your point, it's entirely situational!

It really is, at bs 6 you hit on 2's with a reroll for a 6 so it doesn't do much there. Unless I know im getting him in combat, or there is another prince close by that I know is going into combat I wont cast it and just toss more dice into flicker fire. But as you said its all situational . There is never a right or wrong with this list.

Ok bud. You have been an EPIC amount of help. I'm not pretty sure what I'll be rolling on, it's a steep learning curve, but one thing I have discovered is why this army is so appealing. It's hugely adaptable, and every game is different.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Ok bud. You have been an EPIC amount of help. I'm not pretty sure what I'll be rolling on, it's a steep learning curve, but one thing I have discovered is why this army is so appealing. It's hugely adaptable, and every game is different.

Exactly! The best way to learn is trial and error, I was lucky when I picked this up I got to pick the original architect of this lists brain on a daily basis and with that and ton of games I finally got the hang of it. I think I have about 50+ games with the army (maybe more not sure) and I STILL make mistakes, actually made a mistake at the tof invitational that cost me top table.

Well, there is a reason I am listening intently to what you say. Your knowledge and meta is invaluable to someone who hasn't played before. I'm pretty set on my list now, I'm going to get some plague bearers and daemonettes and give them a go too, or just pull them through the portal.

My next opponent normally runs a blood angels list like this, let me know what you think:

Chaplain, jump pack.
5 death company, jump packs, power swords on all.
Death company dread, talons, magna grapple.
Storm raven (all above go in here and start in reserve)
10 assault marines with sang priest all with jump packs.
10 assault marines with sang priest all with jump packs.
Vindicator.
Vindicator.

You will stomp him into the ground. I will have to disagree with Krootman, but like he said we have different play styles.

Terrify and dominate are to random to be of any real use, Tau will negate invisibility. If you know that you are facing Tau and Eldar telepathy might not be so bad but Biomancy in my opinion is the way you want to build out your princes.

Smite and Life Leech are not the ideal powers you want to pull, but they are shooting attacks, something daemons don't have a lot of. Life Leech is almost a guaranteed way to gain wounds back, and if all you are doing is flying around why not shoot something after vector striking it? Flickering fire is good but again it is random.

Back to your blood angel opponent fly straight in and assault both of those Vindicators on turn 2. If he wants to feed you his assault marines let him and then go claim objectives with your troops. He can't assault with the death company and dread until at least turn 3. Hell if his Raven doesn't come in until turn 3 send everything in to assault and you will probably table him.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Well, there is a reason I am listening intently to what you say. Your knowledge and meta is invaluable to someone who hasn't played before. I'm pretty set on my list now, I'm going to get some plague bearers and daemonettes and give them a go too, or just pull them through the portal.

My next opponent normally runs a blood angels list like this, let me know what you think:

Chaplain, jump pack.
5 death company, jump packs, power swords on all.
Death company dread, talons, magna grapple.
Storm raven (all above go in here and start in reserve)
10 assault marines with sang priest all with jump packs.
10 assault marines with sang priest all with jump packs.
Vindicator.
Vindicator.

As has been said you should be able to assault the vindis, but becareful. Id advise not worring about them until you can deal with the storm raven. they are very difficult to kill with the princes.

 krootman. wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Well, there is a reason I am listening intently to what you say. Your knowledge and meta is invaluable to someone who hasn't played before. I'm pretty set on my list now, I'm going to get some plague bearers and daemonettes and give them a go too, or just pull them through the portal.

My next opponent normally runs a blood angels list like this, let me know what you think:

Chaplain, jump pack.
5 death company, jump packs, power swords on all.
Death company dread, talons, magna grapple.
Storm raven (all above go in here and start in reserve)
10 assault marines with sang priest all with jump packs.
10 assault marines with sang priest all with jump packs.
Vindicator.
Vindicator.

As has been said you should be able to assault the vindis, but becareful. Id advise not worring about them until you can deal with the storm raven. they are very difficult to kill with the princes.

Ravens are hard to kill bit remember it will be hitting your FMCs regardless of whether they are in the air or not. Take out the Vindicators and you don't have to worry about them insta killing your princes.

Still comes down to whether the Raven comes in on turn 2 but come to think of it the only way the dread and death company get out of that Raven is if it goes into hover mode and then it is toast.

To be honest, this game is already over.

valace2 wrote:

 krootman. wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Well, there is a reason I am listening intently to what you say. Your knowledge and meta is invaluable to someone who hasn't played before. I'm pretty set on my list now, I'm going to get some plague bearers and daemonettes and give them a go too, or just pull them through the portal.

My next opponent normally runs a blood angels list like this, let me know what you think:

Chaplain, jump pack.
5 death company, jump packs, power swords on all.
Death company dread, talons, magna grapple.
Storm raven (all above go in here and start in reserve)
10 assault marines with sang priest all with jump packs.
10 assault marines with sang priest all with jump packs.
Vindicator.
Vindicator.

As has been said you should be able to assault the vindis, but becareful. Id advise not worring about them until you can deal with the storm raven. they are very difficult to kill with the princes.

Ravens are hard to kill bit remember it will be hitting your FMCs regardless of whether they are in the air or not. Take out the Vindicators and you don't have to worry about them insta killing your princes.

Still comes down to whether the Raven comes in on turn 2 but come to think of it the only way the dread and death company get out of that Raven is if it goes into hover mode and then it is toast.

To be honest, this game is already over.

Yup, but I play a conservative game, I have found that the army is so fast you don't really need to take unessential gambles in early turns. Having all your princes alive toward the end of the game really allows you to dictate how the game will end, especially if you have 2nd turn.

Wow, you two really can't agree on anything! Haha.

Seriously though, for me this is fantastic. Hearing both sides is really really helping me out.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Wow, you two really can't agree on anything! Haha.

Seriously though, for me this is fantastic. Hearing both sides is really really helping me out.

Always 2 sides to each story, but you can never go wrong playing this list conservative. I almost never play the odds if I don't have too. I never take gambles before turn 4. When in doubt play passively the margin for error with this list is slim to none. You will lose if you make more then 1 mistake unless you get the dice of your life. Remember too, the less dice you have to roll in your opponents turn the better.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Wow, you two really can't agree on anything! Haha.

Seriously though, for me this is fantastic. Hearing both sides is really really helping me out.

We can agree that the flying circus is an amazing build that can run with any top tier list.

Seriously when you play your friend it is going to be a mugging, like baby seal horrific.

How are you handling the book keeping? I made up a couple extra sets of biomancy psychic cards and have a sheet with each prince and Fateweaver on it where I write out each power and gift, really helps keep track of things.

valace2 wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Wow, you two really can't agree on anything! Haha.

Seriously though, for me this is fantastic. Hearing both sides is really really helping me out.

We can agree that the flying circus is an amazing build that can run with any top tier list.

Seriously when you play your friend it is going to be a mugging, like baby seal horrific.

How are you handling the book keeping? I made up a couple extra sets of biomancy psychic cards and had a sheet with each prince and Fateweaver on it where I write out each power and gift, really helps keep track of things.

Yea if your opponent doesnt have any idea how to fight it, as long as you play right you will be fine.

 krootman. wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Wow, you two really can't agree on anything! Haha.

Seriously though, for me this is fantastic. Hearing both sides is really really helping me out.

We can agree that the flying circus is an amazing build that can run with any top tier list.

Seriously when you play your friend it is going to be a mugging, like baby seal horrific.

How are you handling the book keeping? I made up a couple extra sets of biomancy psychic cards and had a sheet with each prince and Fateweaver on it where I write out each power and gift, really helps keep track of things.

Yea if your opponent doesnt have any idea how to fight it, as long as you play right you will be fine.

I don't see how it matters, if you go first the game is over, going 2nd might take a little bit more work but again that depends on whether the Raven comes in on turn 2.

I'm writing a geeky spreadsheet for all the powers and gifts, and have an app for powers. Right, can I ask you both about my awkward tau playing opponent?

valace2 wrote:

 krootman. wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Wow, you two really can't agree on anything! Haha.

Seriously though, for me this is fantastic. Hearing both sides is really really helping me out.

We can agree that the flying circus is an amazing build that can run with any top tier list.

Seriously when you play your friend it is going to be a mugging, like baby seal horrific.

How are you handling the book keeping? I made up a couple extra sets of biomancy psychic cards and had a sheet with each prince and Fateweaver on it where I write out each power and gift, really helps keep track of things.

Yea if your opponent doesnt have any idea how to fight it, as long as you play right you will be fine.

I don't see how it matters, if you go first the game is over, going 2nd might take a little bit more work but again that depends on whether the Raven comes in on turn 2.

Underestimating your opponent is a fantastic way to loose a game.

Ok in your honest opinion does that Blood Angel list have any realistic chance of beating his flying circus?

After the Vindicators go down what else besides the dread and Raven can even threaten his princes? Hitting on 3s wounding on 5s with bolt pistols and trying to get through at minimum a 3+ armour save and 4 wounds on a single prince? Hitting on 5s and wounding on 4s in assault and still having to get through a 3+?

The power swords are a problem but still hitting on 5s and wounding on 4s and then getting through a 5+ invuln.

If his Raven doesn't come in that's all a moot point because all you have to do is assault 2 Vindicators and 2 units of assault marines in turn 2.

Game over. That is not being overconfident that is a fact.

I am not saying the circus is an auto win in every game, half the battle for the circus happens before deployment in how you choose your gifts and powers. Daemons take a lot of work to get right because everything has to run in a sequence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I'm writing a geeky spreadsheet for all the powers and gifts, and have an app for powers. Right, can I ask you both about my awkward tau playing opponent?

Sounds like a good plan, I like the cards because you can throw them on the table next to the units affected.

What's up with your Tau opponent? I have found Tau to be fun to play against with my circus.

valace2 wrote:
Ok in your honest opinion does that Blood Angel list have any realistic chance of beating his flying circus?

After the Vindicators go down what else besides the dread and Raven can even threaten his princes? Hitting on 3s wounding on 5s with bolt pistols and trying to get through at minimum a 3+ armour save and 4 wounds on a single prince? Hitting on 5s and wounding on 4s in assault and still having to get through a 3+?

The power swords are a problem but still hitting on 5s and wounding on 4s and then getting through a 5+ invuln.

If his Raven doesn't come in that's all a moot point because all you have to do is assault 2 Vindicators and 2 units of assault marines in turn 2.

Game over. That is not being overconfident that is a fact.

I am not saying the circus is an auto win in every game, half the battle for the circus happens before deployment in how you choose your gifts and powers. Daemons take a lot of work to get right because everything has to run in a sequence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I'm writing a geeky spreadsheet for all the powers and gifts, and have an app for powers. Right, can I ask you both about my awkward tau playing opponent?

Sounds like a good plan, I like the cards because you can throw them on the table next to the units affected.

What's up with your Tau opponent? I have found Tau to be fun to play against with my circus.

No you are mostly right in your assessment, but not knowing mission or deployment is a big x factor.

Haha, the tau opponent. The thorn in my side. Until this point I have always loved combat armies. Blood angels, chaos marines (Khorne bias) and the only time I almost always nail him is my iyanden serpent list. He's not a great tau player. He's ok, it's just tau are so strong he finds it easy against my combat armies. Especially a round of shooting followed by a round of combat and my low model counts.

Now I only got the daemon codex this week. And I'm in love. Especially the flying circus build and potential. But as he's my best mate, I want to defile him with a dex that he's never come across before!

This is his normal kind of build (very roughly off the top of my head):

Farsight enclaves list,

Farsight,
O'vesa
4 x 3 crisis suits of varying builds
Another riptide or 2 depending on how he feels
2 or 4 broadsides depending on how he feels (almost always 2 missile sides)
2 x 4 pathfinders
10 Kroot
Sometimes a hammer head
Sometimes a sun shark
He normally has the interceptor/sky fire thing on the tides and/or broadsides, he also normally deep strikes farsight with a fusion blaster squad, and another squad of some sort. His list varies a lot, but it normally involves most of that.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Haha, the tau opponent. The thorn in my side. Until this point I have always loved combat armies. Blood angels, chaos marines (Khorne bias) and the only time I almost always nail him is my iyanden serpent list. He's not a great tau player. He's ok, it's just tau are so strong he finds it easy against my combat armies. Especially a round of shooting followed by a round of combat and my low model counts.

Now I only got the daemon codex this week. And I'm in love. Especially the flying circus build and potential. But as he's my best mate, I want to defile him with a dex that he's never come across before!

This is his normal kind of build (very roughly off the top of my head):

Farsight enclaves list,

Farsight,
O'vesa
4 x 3 crisis suits of varying builds
Another riptide or 2 depending on how he feels
2 or 4 broadsides depending on how he feels (almost always 2 missile sides)
2 x 4 pathfinders
10 Kroot
Sometimes a hammer head
Sometimes a sun shark
He normally has the interceptor/sky fire thing on the tides and/or broadsides, he also normally deep strikes farsight with a fusion blaster squad, and another squad of some sort. His list varies a lot, but it normally involves most of that.

Its brutal, so far the bastion seems to be the saving grace vs that kind of tau list. That along with the lord of change.

I'm not buying fortifications!


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I just can't do it!!