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I know ive posted several army list here lately concerning a wraith themed iyanden army. Im really just trying to find a solid "one size fits all" army that can tangle with
just about anything while staying in the wraith/psyker iyanden theme.

So my list goes

Spiritseer (Spear of teuthlas)
5 Wraithgaurd with D-Scythes
Wave serpent (scatterlaser Holo-fields)

Spiritseer
5 Wraithgaurd with D-Scythes
Wave serpent (scatterlaser Holo-fields)

Spiritseer
5 Wraithgaurd with Wraithcannons
Wave serpent (scatterlaser Holo-fields)

Spiritseer
5 Wraithgaurd with Wraithcannons
Wave serpent (scatterlaser Holo-fields)

Wraithlord with two flamers, two brightlances and a ghost glaive.

That comes out to 1740, I feel like it would play decent. But it is kinda spamy. Just wondering if it would be viable or would i just annoy my opponent with the all the serpents and psykers?
The only downfall i see i dont have any really CC, I considered replacing one of the units of scythes for a unit of blades....Again thoughts and criticism always welcome.

Hmm, potentially. I'm also looking at getting back into 40K and picking up my Eldar again, but this time as an Iyanden host. I think this wraith army could be considered a little on the spammy side even though you have good intentions here.

From what I've been thinking recently, you'd ideally need some more variation in there. Whether it be one less Wraithguard unit and a second Wraithlord perhaps (both with glaives and one BL each). Maybe just the one Spiritseer (VoT power works in a bubble so if two or three of your units are working together they will benefit from this).

I pencilled a list the other day which roughly worked out at 1,850pts and included 3 x Wraithguard (2 d-scythes, 1 wraithcannon), 3 x Wave Serpents with holofields but retaining original weaponry), one Spiritseer, 2 x Wraithlords, 1 x Wraithknight. Unless I'm thinking of another list I wrote, there were points left over for other units (they do have living units - just few because they took 80% casualties from Hive Fleet Kraken). I think there's room for 6 x Windrider jetbikes (with 2 x SC) and 5 x Rangers or something like that.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
Hmm, potentially. I'm also looking at getting back into 40K and picking up my Eldar again, but this time as an Iyanden host. I think this wraith army could be considered a little on the spammy side even though you have good intentions here.

From what I've been thinking recently, you'd ideally need some more variation in there. Whether it be one less Wraithguard unit and a second Wraithlord perhaps (both with glaives and one BL each). Maybe just the one Spiritseer (VoT power works in a bubble so if two or three of your units are working together they will benefit from this).

I pencilled a list the other day which roughly worked out at 1,850pts and included 3 x Wraithguard (2 d-scythes, 1 wraithcannon), 3 x Wave Serpents with holofields but retaining original weaponry), one Spiritseer, 2 x Wraithlords, 1 x Wraithknight. Unless I'm thinking of another list I wrote, there were points left over for other units (they do have living units - just few because they took 80% casualties from Hive Fleet Kraken). I think there's room for 6 x Windrider jetbikes (with 2 x SC) and 5 x Rangers or something like that.

Yeah i was looking at a list doing the same thing but instead of two wraithlords, doing a wraithlord and a wraithseer, I like the dead units alot, the models are just amazing.
I was gonna do 1 D scythe and 2 Wraithcannons tho, i like the S10 AP2 shot, just Melt MEQ units, and most TEQ units. If you look at another list i posted its not as bad, I think its pretty much the same, minus the seers, (only one)
with two fireprisms, and a lord for heavy.

A wraith army with no wraithseer!

They look so cool I advise looking into it!

I'd not call it wraithspam. It's just serpentspam with some wraiths.

This is definitely a competitive list because of all the serpents. I think it'd be safe to call this list just straight up spam.

Drop all but 1 spiritseer and don't waste your points on the spear of teuthlas either. That should put you at about 1500 pts and I think it would be a solid 1500pt list. My reasoning being you only need 1 spiritseer for all the squads to count as scoring and you can't cast psychic powers in transports.

Only thing I would change besides that is the wraithlord; they aren't the most competitive heavysupport option. I would replace him with war walkers or warp spiders. That should give you enough dakka to take down just about any type of list.

Let me know how it turns out i've been interested in running a list like this recently.

it would be boring after about 20 games, not bad though,add wraithseer

I'd always want at least on WL and hopefully a WK, but War Walkers could be a good call. Hoarde armies will be tough if they swamp you and you'll appreciate some high volume fire. As they can Scout I believe that means they are also allowed to Outflank. Wraith armies are fairly in your face to a surprise element like this could be welcome.

Same goes for Warp Spiders deep striking.

I read the other day that Wraithknights, as they are Jump, can deep strike. So weird but I guess they kinda leap onto the battlefield or something?!

honestly, if your opponent cares if your list is "spammy" it is not going to be a fun game anyway. Go for it if you like it.

I've been running a similar list to that one for a while as I LOVE Wraithconstructs, and I've had quite a bit of success with it! Helldrakes are the nightmare of this army though. I would advise against taking the WL. I love this model, but in this iteration, they are just not good. Maybe take a Crimson Hunter instead?

yeah i can take out one unit of Dscythes and the lord and 3 of the 4 seers and put in a Wraith Knight, Make him my warlord, that would distract from my wraitcannons and they can shoot up everything

Bear in mind you'll only get max 5 hits a unit with wraith cannons. D scythes might get you closer to 15.

 Helvost wrote:
This is definitely a competitive list because of all the serpents. I think it'd be safe to call this list just straight up spam.

Drop all but 1 spiritseer and don't waste your points on the spear of teuthlas either. That should put you at about 1500 pts and I think it would be a solid 1500pt list. My reasoning being you only need 1 spiritseer for all the squads to count as scoring and you can't cast psychic powers in transports.

Yes and no, yes as in drop 3/4 of the seers but no as in you CAN cast blessings while in a transport.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
Bear in mind you'll only get max 5 hits a unit with wraith cannons. D scythes might get you closer to 15.

That is true because of the templates, but thats also kinda what im counting on, They see im only shooting 10 times with my cannons they will be less likely to go after them, they will want to kill my knight and scythes first im sure, So hopefully that will give my regular guard and serpents a solid chance to gun a lot of stuff down without being the focus of the enemy. I'm sure taking the majority scythes is most likely the better list on paper but im trying to consider how the other person will think and react to what i have on the table and use that to my advantage as well.

Personally I would only make these few changes to better the list (what I believe to be better),

1) drop 3 seers and the spear
2) change one unit of scythes to cannons
3) change WL to duel SL
4) take another WL with duel SL
4) take a farseer on bike
5) take a WK with cannons

Those would be only changes.

Notes:

1) CC isn't needed in 6th with all the shooting
2) the double "4"s represent one possible action as apposed to "5"

 Arbiter wrote:
Personally I would only make these few changes to better the list (what I believe to be better),

1) drop 3 seers and the spear
2) change one unit of scythes to cannons
3) change WL to duel SL
4) take another WL with duel SL
4) take a farseer on bike
5) take a WK with cannons

Those would be only changes.

Notes:

1) CC isn't needed in 6th with all the shooting
2) the double "4"s represent one possible action as apposed to "5"

I agree with almost all the changes and i believe i mentioned almost all of those with the exception of the second Lord and the SL on the lords, The only thing i don't really agree with is the farseer on the bike, Id rather keep all my units dead just for the theme of it, I could re-work the points and work in a wraithseer, for the fluff of it.

Where does it say in the rulebook or FAQ that you can cast blessings in transports? I haven't been playing it that way but I definitely want to!

I believe you can cast the blessing on the vehicle or unit embarked in the same vehicle with the psyker and thats it. So with the new IK's for regular 40k, how would you deal with an army like that?

Psykers
Q: Can a model use a psychic power that is not a
Psychic Shooting Attack if it is embarked in a transport
vehicle? (p50)

A: Yes. If the power requires line of sight, this is still
worked out from the vehicle’s fire points (this will
count as one model shooting through that fire point if
the power is used in the Shooting phase).
If the psychic power does not require line of sight and
has a range or an area of effect that is normally
measured from the model using it, these are measured
from the vehicle’s hull, as explained in the Embarking
section on page 66.

Straight from the FAQ,

So any Non PSA can be used inside, and on the vehicle the psyker embarked is in/on.

I was about to post the FAQ, but I see I was beat to it!

That's great. So a Spiritseer could stay in a WS and cast VoT in relative safety then.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
That's great. So a Spiritseer could stay in a WS and cast VoT in relative safety then.

thats what it says

 Bhazakhain wrote:
That's great. So a Spiritseer could stay in a WS and cast VoT in relative safety then.

No. You need to have LOS for a blessing. Serpents do not have fire ports.
VoT automatically targets all wraithguard, blades, lords and knights with 12" around the seer. You require LOS to all of these units.

If the target(s) is/are outside the Serpent, you don't have LOS, so no go.
If the seer is in the Serpent with some wraith - but other wraith units are inside the 12" range around the serpent - you cannot cast it, since you don't have LOS to that other unit.

You can cast Voice of Twilight in a Serpent, but only if the only eligible target group of wraith is in it with you.

 Stephanius wrote:

 Bhazakhain wrote:
That's great. So a Spiritseer could stay in a WS and cast VoT in relative safety then.

No. You need to have LOS for a blessing. Serpents do not have fire ports.
VoT automatically targets all wraithguard, blades, lords and knights with 12" around the seer. You require LOS to all of these units.

If the target(s) is/are outside the Serpent, you don't have LOS, so no go.
If the seer is in the Serpent with some wraith - but other wraith units are inside the 12" range around the serpent - you cannot cast it, since you don't have LOS to that other unit.

You can cast Voice of Twilight in a Serpent, but only if the only eligible target group of wraith is in it with you.

Does the wording in the spell VoT say all units withing 12 or all units within 12 that you have LOS on?
Cause from my understanding If the spell doesnt say you need LOS and its not a PSA you can use it inside the vehicle

 Guilldog wrote:
I know ive posted several army list here lately concerning a wraith themed iyanden army. Im really just trying to find a solid "one size fits all" army that can tangle with
just about anything while staying in the wraith/psyker iyanden theme.

So my list goes

Spiritseer (Spear of teuthlas)
5 Wraithgaurd with D-Scythes
Wave serpent (scatterlaser Holo-fields)

Spiritseer
5 Wraithgaurd with D-Scythes
Wave serpent (scatterlaser Holo-fields)

Spiritseer
5 Wraithgaurd with Wraithcannons
Wave serpent (scatterlaser Holo-fields)

Spiritseer
5 Wraithgaurd with Wraithcannons
Wave serpent (scatterlaser Holo-fields)

Wraithlord with two flamers, two brightlances and a ghost glaive.

That comes out to 1740, I feel like it would play decent. But it is kinda spamy. Just wondering if it would be viable or would i just annoy my opponent with the all the serpents and psykers?
The only downfall i see i dont have any really CC, I considered replacing one of the units of scythes for a unit of blades....Again thoughts and criticism always welcome.

I've played a lot of wraith-heavy games in the last six months, testing out different list makeups.
I found that while a Spiritseer can make for the occasional awesome moment where battletrance allows you to get units in range, that really doesn't take a bunch of them.

Today, I include one spiritseer without upgrades, but take a mantle-farseer on a jetbike. A farseer can provide the Runes of Fate and Divination Primaris powers with 12" and 24" Twinlink blessings. Those can really amp up the output of wraithguard with cannons and help push other units like walkers firmly into the brutal area. To me this is much more powerful and flexible than being able to add D6 movement sometimes.

I usually have four serpents with 5 cannon-wraithguard each, plus a spiritseer, the mantle-bike-farseer and a wraithknight with suncannon and scatterlaser. Optional elements are another wraithknight, a war walker squadron, some avengers if points are scares to swap for one set of wraithguard and a bunch of more regular eldar units like spiders, hawks and reavers.

 Guilldog wrote:

 Stephanius wrote:

 Bhazakhain wrote:
That's great. So a Spiritseer could stay in a WS and cast VoT in relative safety then.

No. You need to have LOS for a blessing. Serpents do not have fire ports.
VoT automatically targets all wraithguard, blades, lords and knights with 12" around the seer. You require LOS to all of these units.

If the target(s) is/are outside the Serpent, you don't have LOS, so no go.
If the seer is in the Serpent with some wraith - but other wraith units are inside the 12" range around the serpent - you cannot cast it, since you don't have LOS to that other unit.

You can cast Voice of Twilight in a Serpent, but only if the only eligible target group of wraith is in it with you.

Does the wording in the spell VoT say all units withing 12 or all units within 12 that you have LOS on?
Cause from my understanding If the spell doesnt say you need LOS and its not a PSA you can use it inside the vehicle

You are correct, from the wording VoT does not need LoS nor fire points so any wraiths (except seer) would benefit from it.

 Guilldog wrote:

 Stephanius wrote:

 Bhazakhain wrote:
That's great. So a Spiritseer could stay in a WS and cast VoT in relative safety then.

No. You need to have LOS for a blessing. Serpents do not have fire ports.
VoT automatically targets all wraithguard, blades, lords and knights with 12" around the seer. You require LOS to all of these units.

If the target(s) is/are outside the Serpent, you don't have LOS, so no go.
If the seer is in the Serpent with some wraith - but other wraith units are inside the 12" range around the serpent - you cannot cast it, since you don't have LOS to that other unit.

You can cast Voice of Twilight in a Serpent, but only if the only eligible target group of wraith is in it with you.

Does the wording in the spell VoT say all units withing 12 or all units within 12 that you have LOS on?
Cause from my understanding If the spell doesnt say you need LOS and its not a PSA you can use it inside the vehicle

Quoting from the Iyanden supplement: "Voice of Twlight is a blessing that targets all friendly units within 12". It goes on to specify wraithguard/blades/lords/knights and the benefit of Battletrance and Furious Charge as effect of the blessing.

VoT explictly specifies all friendly units within 12" and doesn't exclude units you don't have LOS on.
All spells require LOS, unless they explictly state otherwise. See BRB p. 67 top right. There is no exception in VoT, hence LOS is required.
Serpents do not have fireports, so the FAQ quoted above that permits using Fireports to establish LOS does not help us.

I wish it was otherwise, but wraithseers cannot cast VOT in serpents - or on the turn they disembark - unless there are no other friendly units within 12".

 Stephanius wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:

 Stephanius wrote:

 Bhazakhain wrote:
That's great. So a Spiritseer could stay in a WS and cast VoT in relative safety then.

No. You need to have LOS for a blessing. Serpents do not have fire ports.
VoT automatically targets all wraithguard, blades, lords and knights with 12" around the seer. You require LOS to all of these units.

If the target(s) is/are outside the Serpent, you don't have LOS, so no go.
If the seer is in the Serpent with some wraith - but other wraith units are inside the 12" range around the serpent - you cannot cast it, since you don't have LOS to that other unit.

You can cast Voice of Twilight in a Serpent, but only if the only eligible target group of wraith is in it with you.

Does the wording in the spell VoT say all units withing 12 or all units within 12 that you have LOS on?
Cause from my understanding If the spell doesnt say you need LOS and its not a PSA you can use it inside the vehicle

Quoting from the Iyanden supplement: "Voice of Twlight is a blessing that targets all friendly units within 12". It goes on to specify wraithguard/blades/lords/knights and the benefit of Battletrance and Furious Charge as effect of the blessing.

VoT explictly specifies all friendly units within 12" and doesn't exclude units you don't have LOS on.
All spells require LOS, unless they explictly state otherwise. See BRB p. 67 top right. There is no exception in VoT, hence LOS is required.
Serpents do not have fireports, so the FAQ quoted above that permits using Fireports to establish LOS does not help us.

I wish it was otherwise, but wraithseers cannot cast VOT in serpents - or on the turn they disembark - unless there are no other friendly units within 12".

I read the page in the BRB says you have to have LOA unless stated otherwise
and the spell does say doesnt exclue units you dont have line of sight on.
So it is included in the spell so if a friendly unit of the wraith typed is within 12 you should still be able to use it from inside the
vehicle whether you can see out of it or not because it says ALL units not Target unit.... or am i missing something

Well, usually a blessing has only one target or a preset target like the psyker or the psyker's unit. That is what the Declare Target section on p67 BRB is really meant for.

VoT does not allow you to deliberately choose a target, but simply declares that all friendly units within 12" are targets.

So you could try to argue that the LOS requirement does not come into play since the Declare Target part does not get invoked.

I would love for Voice of Twilight to just reach through vehicles, walls and whatever and not be affected by the LOS requirement, but I'm not convinced you can skip the declare target bit, even though the target has already been declared for you in the spell itself.

RAW I think you have to have LOS to all units within 12", which isn't the case if the spiritseer is in a Serpent.

RAI, they might have meant this to be an area effect, irrelevant of LOS. After all, a friendly unit within range out of LOS could stop you from casting VoT, wether they are an eligible wraith unit for the buff or not.

See thats what I was thinking. If you didnt have LOS on all friendly units in 12 then you couldnt cast but it says it ignores that. So if the spell can ignore a mountain, enemy units blocking LOS, hell even a building, then why not the walls of the serpent. The "target" is stated already in the spell and it says you dont have to see them. So I believe you should be able to.