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Unfortunately Voice of Twilight does not say anything about Line of Sight being required or not required. It just states that all friendly units within 12" range are target of the blessing.

Since the general rule is "LOS between caster and target required, unless explicitly stated otherwise", I believe it applies here, which leads to VoT being impossible to cast if a unit out of LOS.

I have some advice 4 dis as i play crons myself

Never underestimate them,they'll kill at least a unit of infantry
Put a few large blast templates on them especially wen they hav wip coils
Dont get into cc with them

I put the VoT question into the You Make Da Call section for rules discussion: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/586135.page

Da Stormlord wrote:
I have some advice 4 dis as i play crons myself

Never underestimate them,they'll kill at least a unit of infantry
Put a few large blast templates on them especially wen they hav wip coils
Dont get into cc with them

Thanks for getting back on topic. Dont get into CC with the wraithseer cause of good or bad things? Im not quite clear on what you mean.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stephanius wrote:
I put the VoT question into the You Make Da Call section for rules discussion: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/586135.page

Thank you. Let the interpretations begin!

To answer the OP, I'm going with "both." It is both competitive and annoying.

 MWHistorian wrote:
To answer the OP, I'm going with "both." It is both competitive and annoying.

Thats what I was afraid of. When things are both people cry about them being broken.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da Stormlord wrote:
I have some advice 4 dis as i play crons myself

Never underestimate them,they'll kill at least a unit of infantry
Put a few large blast templates on them especially wen they hav wip coils
Dont get into cc with them

sorry got this confused with my wraithseer thread

Well after reading it depends on what your area is playing..

if your areas is just playing casual or semi-competitive I would strongly advise against the Wave Serpents as people are they for just a fun time not to get curb stomped..

If its the full competitive package it will do just fine

I don't think your list qualifies as "Serpent Spam", even though it has four serpents. Your Serpents are not carrying cheap-o dire avengers at minimum unit size, but actually elite infantry that is more expensive than this tank costed transport. You are also "only" brining four serpents, rather than squeezing in six. The Serpent is awesome, but it is also costed with that in mind. A Serpent with holo fields, scatter laser and shuriken cannon costs as much as a rhino and a vindicator together. A bunch of serpents offers a nice amount of S6/S7 AP-/5/6 fire, but in this list, that fire has to make up for a much greater amount of bolter fire or equivalent to take out infantry blobs. Certainly, five shots from a wraithcannon won't impress a horde of tyranids, orks or deamons comming your way.

Consider the strength of the units objectively, rather than just listening to highly subjective moaning. Also, who says that the people who mention serpent spam as objection arn't packing a stack of cheese in their list?

What I'm trying to say is that serpents are a strong, not a broken or ridiculous unit and that the setup has it's strengths and weaknesses depending on the army it is facing. My advice is to play a couple of games and see how it goes. If you absolutely anihilate your opponent, it won't be fun and you should have elements ready to swap out after eyeballing the situation.

The first four games that I played with 4x wraithguards in serpents were four wins against different flavours or marines. Battle reports are on my blog. Since then, I've gotten spanked quite a few times even though I tried to improve my list and make it work better.

 happygolucky wrote:
Well after reading it depends on what your area is playing..

if your areas is just playing casual or semi-competitive I would strongly advise against the Wave Serpents as people are they for just a fun time not to get curb stomped..

If its the full competitive package it will do just fine

Yeah here its really a matter of WHO you are playing.
Some guys bring the pain in every single game they play and other just take armies and units they like.
So yeah, it's really just a matter of who you are up against around here cause i know for a fact three guys
who use Red Scorpions, Grey Knights, and Space Wolves will WAAC and not feel bad about it one bit.

Well, its annoying. But a Wraithguard heavy army might heavily be outnumbered and therefore I'd opt that its semi-competitive.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, its annoying. But a Wraithguard heavy army might heavily be outnumbered and therefore I'd opt that its semi-competitive.

Well thats why i would bring a unit or two of the Dscythes, Would cut down on horde armies fairly quickly. Also if i know im going to be playing IG, Orks, or Swarmanids, I'll bring my fireprisms and problem solved right? right???

 Guilldog wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
Well after reading it depends on what your area is playing..

if your areas is just playing casual or semi-competitive I would strongly advise against the Wave Serpents as people are they for just a fun time not to get curb stomped..

If its the full competitive package it will do just fine

Yeah here its really a matter of WHO you are playing.
Some guys bring the pain in every single game they play and other just take armies and units they like.
So yeah, it's really just a matter of who you are up against around here cause i know for a fact three guys
who use Red Scorpions, Grey Knights, and Space Wolves will WAAC and not feel bad about it one bit.

In which case its all about adaptability.

You seem to know your player base so my suggestion is that you use the serpent against the WAAC types but not against the guys and gals who just want to have fun

My suggestion is that you make two types of lists before you go down to your LGS, one which is your competitive one (I.E the one full of wave serpents) and another for those who just wanted a game.

This is not considered as list tailoring as long as you have pre-made lists before the game starts, therefore you know what you were going to take before anyone start to flap their arms

What I'm trying to say is that serpents are a strong, not a broken or ridiculous unit

Whats not broken about it.............

One thing that never seems to get mentioned is that apart from the survivability, speed, flexibility, range, insane weapons (especially agianst its opposite numbers) - is the troop protection - not only physical but that it normally has a 2+ save against stunned and Shaken results meaning that its passengers can almost always shoot no matter what................very powerful.

Its unfortunate that the Eldar Codex only has the one cheesy DT but lets not pretend it is in any way balanced............

re the OP - in order to maximise fun for all involved its good to be clear what sort of game people want to play - causual usually don't enjoy fighting highly competative lsits and vice versa

 Mr Morden wrote:

What I'm trying to say is that serpents are a strong, not a broken or ridiculous unit

Whats not broken about it.............

One thing that never seems to get mentioned is that apart from the survivability, speed, flexibility, range, insane weapons (especially agianst its opposite numbers) - is the troop protection - not only physical but that it normally has a 2+ save against stunned and Shaken results meaning that its passengers can almost always shoot no matter what................very powerful.

Its unfortunate that the Eldar Codex only has the one cheesy DT but lets not pretend it is in any way balanced............

re the OP - in order to maximise fun for all involved its good to be clear what sort of game people want to play - causual usually don't enjoy fighting highly competative lsits and vice versa

If you read everything the other guy posted it kinda makes sense, i mean you get what you pay for and the bastard aint cheap! and you cant fire out of a wave serpent anyway cause it has no firing points!
Which leads into another argument that we have already posted about in you make da call, but anyway. I can understand other players frustration against it, thats why i asked. Thank you for your input.

Fair enough

and you cant fire out of a wave serpent anyway cause it has no firing points!

The important bit is that if you stun or stagger other transports than even if the passengers subsequently get out (or are thrown out) they have to snap shot or can't fire - Wave Serpents ignore that on a 2+ with a Sheild up - which is huge.... add that to all the other advantages and I maintain its broken, multiples exponentionally so.