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You mustn't forget the increasing range of direct only product, all the LE bull and the regular, inexplicable removal of certain kits from general circulation to DO (Waveserpents being a recent example)

In most cases, I'd look for an alternate product from another company, but if I can't find something I like as much, I'll buy direct, even in the knowledge I'm overpaying. This is a last resort, I disagree with a lot of aspects of the way GW operate these days, and I funnel as much cash as I can away from them, but I won't spite myself if I want something they make.

But you've got to account for many customers who may be savvy enough to look for online discount, but will still buy only GW product, because they've been inducted to wargaming via GW, and have those Warhammer blinkers on, and while GW continue to make life hard for independents then many of those will funnel directly back to GW.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

jim8015 wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, an interim financial report with falling turnover and profit in every global market might suggest that is finally happening.

Agreed - and it is. GW is a big company so they know the cost to acquire new business. Personally, I think brick and mortar shops drive the loss. And they are opening up more. In the US, numerous retailers are failing or have failed. Montgomery Ward, cicrcuit city, Jc penny, sears, best buy has been hot and cold. All of these businesses have a ton of fixed costs due to footprint. Why GW wants to go that route I don't know, but I guess they feel their stores bring in enough new players to justify the costs.

Who actually buys minis at full retail though? People do I guess. I support my flgs where I can, but I'm not paying full retail for GW minis. And now we have an official GW store. I don't get it.

Brick and Mortars do look like GW's biggest financial burden. Even with moving stores to cheaper locations that's money being spent. Pure 3rd party stores and online only sales would definitely increase their profit margin but I feel they might be afraid of losing that visibility they have from having those physical stores.

It seems like they are trying to downsize or just take a different step, like in Memphis, Tennessee, where the bunker there is shutting down its side room with a dozen tables, even when there seems to be no financial benefit. I guess we will see where GW is headed in the coming months.

Well, now that YOU'VE all whined about it, I'm sure GW is going to change their policies and do things the exact way you want.

jim8015 wrote:
All I'm saying is this is a consumer based company and the consumers hold the power. Until people collectively say enough is enough and I'm not buying it, the cycle just continues.

I work for a similar company. Often we sell less but we make more money overall due to price hikes. The issue is people still buy our stuff even at our ridiculous prices. The collective consumer base has to force the change. Else everyone pony up until the next one, and do it all over again.

Yes this is true, but different consumers have different levels of pain when it comes to costs. Even the big boys on the block eventually overcharge their customers so much that they finally are forced to reorganize how they charge for things and how they offer services. Plenty of people gave up years ago on GW and the prices have just risen since then. The price on the Imperial Knight was the final slap in the face for me yet there were still people ordering *5* of the bloody things without batting an eye. One can be bothered by price rises, but still be able to afford them so not stop buying. I have similar issues in one of my other hobbies where a lot of the vendors offering the stuff I need take months longer than promised to provide goods and eventually gets to a point either you deal with the delay or you get nothing or lower quality goods. Not always a perfect situation. Same goes for buying minis more expensively. You want to finish your army, so you suck it up, but you don't like it while you do. So it isn't just a simple "Don't like it, don't buy it." I can take that stance now because I have all the stuff I want/need for my armies, but if I was on my first army and it was only half done I can either suck it up and spend the money or I can dump the army and the whole game because of it. If 40k is what people play more than anything else in my LGS, just dumping the army and the game isn't necessarily useful if I want to be part of the community.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hobojebus wrote:
Who buys gw models at rrp? It's the information age people it's simplicity itself to find a site giving discounts.

The only way gw will get the message that these price hikes are unacceptable is if we stop buying from them at full price, I haven't bought direct from gw since 2009 And it's saved me a fortune.

Just not buying from them for full price doesn't give them any kind of message at all. If you buy GW products from any vendor GW still gets a cut. Add in that getting anything that isn't just a plastic kit is harder for vendors and it gets even tougher to stick with it. It is all the more annoying that the prices you pay at 20% off today are actually *higher* than what you paid at full retail in 2009 direct from GW. The only way GW will get any messge is if all customers refused to buy the next big thing they release with a crazy price tag, but given that people were happily clicking on that "5 Imperial Knights" one click deal recently I doubt that will happen. Beyond that people would just need to stop buying anything from GW to make a really strong statement and such a statement would also probably financially break all of the discount retailers we all suport at the same time. Unless, of course, people dumped GW and started spending all those GW funds with their regular vendors to buy products from different companies instead.

Of course this is all silly speculation because a market that will willfully swallow buying 5 imperial knights in one go at $700 isn't going to do anything to make a statement vs. GW. It will be all the people who slowly just stop buying as the prices get too silly for them. There may come a point where a majority all drop at once, but it will definitely be the highest breaking point that does it and not just those players deciding to make a stand of any kind.

Skriker

hobojebus wrote:
Who buys gw models at rrp? It's the information age people it's simplicity itself to find a site giving discounts.

The only way gw will get the message that these price hikes are unacceptable is if we stop buying from them at full price, I haven't bought direct from gw since 2009 And it's saved me a fortune.

Unfortunately, GW went on the warpath in Canada and essentially shut down all internet retailers of their product, banned non-Canadian companies from shipping to Canadians, and stripped much of their stock from 3rd-party brick and mortar retailers. I haven't bought much since, as it was an effective ~30% increase in cost to buy directly from GW.

And that is before mentioning the price gap between US\UK and Can\Aus.

text removed.


Reds8n

Textbook example of a false dilemma fallacy.

What if I decide to neither shut up nor get a new hobby?

Then your gonna pay the price

I don't see what's wrong with expressing one's opinions on something that you actively practice.

40K has good things (Like most model design) and bad things (Like price.)

That I play the game doesn't mean it couldn't get better.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with expressing one's opinions on something that you actively practice.

40K has good things (Like most model design) and bad things (Like price.)

That I play the game doesn't mean it couldn't get better.

No, no, I'm afraid that's not how it works. One is not allowed to hold moderate views, or like some aspects and dislike others. I'm afraid my time on Dakka has really brought home to me how much of a problem some people have operating in the "greys." Whether this is an Internet phenomena, something fairly widespread culturally that I'd hitherto simply not encountered or something else I can't really say, but it is surprising how many people can only operate in binary eg "shut up and deal with it or feth off" seems to be a common one.

 azreal13 wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with expressing one's opinions on something that you actively practice.

40K has good things (Like most model design) and bad things (Like price.)

That I play the game doesn't mean it couldn't get better.

No, no, I'm afraid that's not how it works. One is not allowed to hold moderate views, or like some aspects and dislike others. I'm afraid my time on Dakka has really brought home to me how much of a problem some people have operating in the "greys." Whether this is an Internet phenomena, something fairly widespread culturally that I'd hitherto simply not encountered or something else I can't really say, but it is surprising how many people can only operate in binary eg "shut up and deal with it or feth off" seems to be a common one.

So your still gonna buy the models right?

Yes, I'm still buying models, just not from GW. I have bought precisely one model and a handful of paint from GW in the last....18 months? Maybe two years actually. I've bought second hand, I've bought "counts as" models, but I've spent very little with GW or on their products.

Crucially, I still continue to spend a similar amount compared to when I was almost exclusively buying GW stuff, so not only have GW lost the overwhelming majority of my business, but that business hasn't just disappeared, it has gone to the competition.

I've bought rules, but only for armies I play, because I'm not in the business of fething myself over just to make a point, whereas I was in the habit of picking up most books as they released pre 6th.

So all in all, I suspect I spend a tenth of the money with GW that I was spending three years ago, hopefully that qualifies me, under your severe and arbitrary criteria, to offer a critical opinion where I see fit?

 SRSFACE wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Believe it was 50 or 55 USD. So this is quite the price hike...

It was $66.

Odd they are putting a price hike on a unit released all of 8 months ago.

Good fething grief, GW, what a fething joke.

I thought the joke was people are still here. I mean if GW is so bad, why stick around?

Funny read both pages, lots of complaining as usual but the people complaining keep still buying GW products. They still keep giving free publicity for GW and still keep giving GW free advertising.

Now that is the joke.

 azreal13 wrote:
Yes, I'm still buying models, just not from GW.

Then why are you here? Wouldnt your time be better spent on the forums who support the models you buy?

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Yes, I'm still buying models, just not from GW.

Then why are you here? Wouldnt your time be better spent on the forums who support the models you buy?

Are you just failing to comprehend a simple term like "counts as?" Did you fail to note I mentioned I still bought the relevant rules?

I still play 40K

Now please stop trying to argue a facile and baseless position, as my right to criticise or hold an opinion on the game isn't defined by whether I play it or not. But, once again, I do play 40K.

I play 40K.

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Yes, I'm still buying models, just not from GW.

Then why are you here? Wouldnt your time be better spent on the forums who support the models you buy?

I imagine he's here because he likes the game and IP, just not the model prices and has valid criticisms for a game he enjoys.

Davor wrote:

 SRSFACE wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Believe it was 50 or 55 USD. So this is quite the price hike...

It was $66.

Odd they are putting a price hike on a unit released all of 8 months ago.

Good fething grief, GW, what a fething joke.

I thought the joke was people are still here. I mean if GW is so bad, why stick around?

Funny read both pages, lots of complaining as usual but the people complaining keep still buying GW products. They still keep giving free publicity for GW and still keep giving GW free advertising.

Now that is the joke.

I'm intrigued how exactly you're drawing the connection between "people complaining about GW" and "people giving GW free advertising?"

But once again, like Gitsmasha, you're failing to grasp the concept that it is possible to like aspects of a thing without blindly accepting things about the same thing you're less keen on, and to hold different, perhaps even opposing, opinions on those various aspects.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Yes, I'm still buying models, just not from GW.

Then why are you here? Wouldnt your time be better spent on the forums who support the models you buy?

Are you just failing to comprehend a simple term like "counts as?" Did you fail to note I mentioned I still bought the relevant rules?

I still play 40K

Now please stop trying to argue a facile and baseless position, as my right to criticise or hold an opinion on the game isn't defined by whether I play it or not. But, once again, I do play 40K.

I play 40K.

Yes you are right you can have an opinion. Yes you can criticize. But other people have a right to criticize and hold an opinion as well when you seem hypocritical.

It just gets tiring reading people making statements about how bad GW is, but yet still buy their products and play their games. All it seems is the Internet, says GW sucks but yet still plays them and supports them. So if you support them, why would GW change then?

Because he thinks there's plenty of room for improvement?

Where's the hypocrisy?

Kindly, tell me, when I still play 40K, but have modified my purchasing habits because of price, to radically reduce the income GW receive from me, it is in any way hypocritical of me to criticise GW for their pricing?

EDIT

In fact, sod the hypocrisy, where's the criticism? All I've said ITT re price is to increase a relatively recently released kit by an above inflation amount of money is pretty shoddy, which I'm not sure is something anyone can really argue with substantively. Every other post has been to do with the facile "don't like it don't buy it" argument which doesn't apply, as I don't like it and I haven't bought it, and not in a good long while!

Davor wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 Gitsmasher wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Yes, I'm still buying models, just not from GW.

Then why are you here? Wouldnt your time be better spent on the forums who support the models you buy?

Are you just failing to comprehend a simple term like "counts as?" Did you fail to note I mentioned I still bought the relevant rules?

I still play 40K

Now please stop trying to argue a facile and baseless position, as my right to criticise or hold an opinion on the game isn't defined by whether I play it or not. But, once again, I do play 40K.

I play 40K.

Yes you are right you can have an opinion. Yes you can criticize. But other people have a right to criticize and hold an opinion as well when you seem hypocritical.

It just gets tiring reading people making statements about how bad GW is, but yet still buy their products and play their games. All it seems is the Internet, says GW sucks but yet still plays them and supports them. So if you support them, why would GW change then?

People don't like EA as a publisher their business practices have got them voted the worst company two years running and after the dungeon keeper crap it'll prob be three years soon, but sadly EA publishes games people want and there is no other option but to buy through them.

GW is the same we like the game but we don't like the company publishing it, they price gouge way over what's acceptable cars have gone up in price 30% in the last ten years, gw prices have gone up 100% in the same period.

But eBay has plenty of models you can buy and deny gw your money, they don't listen to our words so all you can do is hurt their income and hope they turn around this abuse of their players that's become rampant in the past few years.