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Hello,

We don't play all that often these days so ofcourse every time there are rule battles

From the top of my head we had the Mindshackle scarab question on when it activates. I have looked this up before when I used to play necrons and the consensus back then was that it activates on the same time as a challenge so the player who's turn it is decides what happens first. I got my way on this in the game through a 4+ roll but I will need proof somehow for next time. If that's even possible.

Then I had one question if it says anywhere how it works with stubborn characters and refusign a challenge? We could only find that the unit can't use his leadership if he refuses but says nothing regarding stubborn. We let them keep stubborn from the character but it feels silly somehow that they can't use his leadership but they can use his leadership effecting ability...Just wanted to ask if we somehow missed another rule or we played it correctly?

1) It happens at the start of the fight sub phase (errata) so is the same time as challenges. Therefore player whose turn it is decides the order
2) They cannot use his Ld value, but are still stubborn.

Thanks man! Also now remembered somethign we discussed at the start of the battle but made no real difference but has there been any decisions anywhere regarding ignores cover and vehicles? Since it only mention to wound which you don't do on vehicles.

Vehicles take saves against pen / glance in exactly the same way as a non-vehicle would do against wounds - how does a non-vehicle take a cover save against a weapon with ignores cover?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Vehicles take saves against pen / glance in exactly the same way as a non-vehicle would do against wounds - how does a non-vehicle take a cover save against a weapon with ignores cover?

"Cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by weapons with the Ignores Cover special rule." The keyword here is wounds which you don't do versus a vehicle. So according to raw if there's no other rule i've missed it doesn't remove cover saves for vehicles. Silly for sure but that's what it says. Wish I had my rulebook here right now to check if it states that rolling to glance or penetrate counts the same way as wounding sicne that would settle it.

Fenric wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Vehicles take saves against pen / glance in exactly the same way as a non-vehicle would do against wounds - how does a non-vehicle take a cover save against a weapon with ignores cover?

"Cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by weapons with the Ignores Cover special rule." The keyword here is wounds which you don't do versus a vehicle. So according to raw if there's no other rule i've missed it doesn't remove cover saves for vehicles. Silly for sure but that's what it says. Wish I had my rulebook here right now to check if it states that rolling to glance or penetrate counts the same way as wounding sicne that would settle it.

As Nos pointed out:

p.75 BRB says

"If the target is obscured and suffers a glancing or penetrating hit, it must take a cover save against it, exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a wound"

How does a non vehicle take its cover save when the weapon has ignore cover? Since vehicles must take their cover saves exactly like non-vehicle models would against a wound thats how you resolve it.


Also on a side note. You may want to change the threads name to something more specific regarding your questions. Otherwise it will be closed as soon as a moderator sees it.

Fenric less trying on cheesing ey? This is oooold.

Cheesing? Don't make assumptions It wasn't for me since I play Space wolves without much vehicles and have no removes cover. The mss question is mostly me trying to find somr proof since no matter what I say my friends don't seem to agree that it happens at the same time even if it says so. They want a ruling by gw... :/

Also thanks for the clarification regarding vehicles and cover save. That statment "as rolling to wound" was exactly what I was looking for. It was brought up by a friend that got upset that our tau player got to use ignores cover from marker lights even though the template scattered to a different unit (that started it ayways). So no Phatonic it's not me cheesing

I will change the title to something more specific. Don't create alot of threads here so thanks for the heads up.