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How does Preferred Enemy - Space Marines work out when rolling to wound using a large blast against a unit made up of, for instance, Tau and Space Marines combined...? Do you reroll all ones to wound? Some? None?

There are no rules covering this (or they are at least debatable) and there is a long debate how preferred enemy works with mixed groups.

HIWPI
If the unit contains at least one model that is the preferred enemy you get the rerolls for all wounds.

Be prepared that opponents may have a different interpretation of the rule and a different HIWPI approach. I normally let my opponent decide how to play it in such situations. Safe way to not get across as a TFG in a friendly. In tournaments this rule should be covered by their TOs. Check the faqs or ask a judge.

 Mywik wrote:
There are no rules covering this (or they are at least debatable) and there is a long debate how preferred enemy works with mixed groups.

HIWPI
If the unit contains at least one model that is the preferred enemy you get the rerolls for all wounds.

Be prepared that opponents may have a different interpretation of the rule and a different HIWPI approach. I normally let my opponent decide how to play it in such situations. Safe way to not get across as a TFG in a friendly. In tournaments this rule should be covered by their TOs. Check the faqs or ask a judge.

This ^^

Kholzerino wrote:
How does Preferred Enemy - Space Marines work out when rolling to wound using a large blast against a unit made up of, for instance, Tau and Space Marines combined...? Do you reroll all ones to wound? Some? None?

How are you able to have Tau and Marines in the same squad? I do not know of this rule.

Unless you mean a blast template ended up over a squad of marines and a squad of tau

EDIT: Never mind, I forgot about allies. I'm too old school. Back in my day, Tau and Space Marines shot each other; they didn't hold hands

I believe Mywik may have the right of it.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:
How does Preferred Enemy - Space Marines work out when rolling to wound using a large blast against a unit made up of, for instance, Tau and Space Marines combined...? Do you reroll all ones to wound? Some? None?

How are you able to have Tau and Marines in the same squad? I do not know of this rule.

Unless you mean a blast template ended up over a squad of marines and a squad of tau

Tau and space marines are battle brothers.

 Mywik wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:
How does Preferred Enemy - Space Marines work out when rolling to wound using a large blast against a unit made up of, for instance, Tau and Space Marines combined...? Do you reroll all ones to wound? Some? None?

How are you able to have Tau and Marines in the same squad? I do not know of this rule.

Unless you mean a blast template ended up over a squad of marines and a squad of tau

Tau and space marines are battle brothers.

Yeah, I quickly remembered after typing that that allies are a thing now

Tau character in a Space Marines squad - PE: Space Marines works

Space Marine character in a Tau squad - PE: SM does not work

IC mixed unit of Space Marines and Tau - ... I honestly have no idea.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Tau character in a Space Marines squad - PE: Space Marines works

Space Marine character in a Tau squad - PE: SM does not work

IC mixed unit of Space Marines and Tau - ... I honestly have no idea.

Ah, but the PE rule does not specify that it works against units. It just says that it works against the model's preferred enemy.

What I like to think is the model with PE: Space Marine gets so pissed off that he sees a Marine working with Tau, that he goes absolutely ballistic

As shooting attacks are resolved against the unit as a whole, the only way to tell if you're firing at a preferred enemy is to look at the codex the unit you're firing at is from.

It is also consistent with various special rules that treat the entire unit as being from the Codex the base unit is from.

While there is no official Game Workshop Rule to deal with this one, ForgeWorld did release a Frequently Asked Question Answer along these lines in a few emails they sent out to their customers. This is because Forgeworld released a Model, a Tau battle suit named O'Ra'lai which gains access to a warlord trait granting Preferred Enemy (Independent Character) and needless to say that raised a great deal of questions. After all, Independent Characters are often hidden in other units that do not have this Special Rule so it is not possible to prove the requirement to be attacking an Independent Character can be met. Last time it raised on this board it showed a great deal of diversion between how people interpenetrate Preferred Enemy and it appears forge-world had an entirely different answer as well

Their Answer was along the lines of:
One can only re-roll wounds that have Precision strike or a Special Rule allowing the allocation to be chosen by the shooter, as other wounds could be allocated to non-Preferred Enemies and therefore do not trigger the Rule.

Personally, with Preferred Enemy (Army X) and not the messy (Independent Character), I would go with a far more easier resolution of the issue:
Ask the question of which unit joined which.

While the Independent Characters Rule of 'joins the unit for all Rule related purposes' is a little vague, and has led to some unusual gray areas in the past, it would easily be applicable here. Once an Independent Character has joined another Unit it is treated as part of that unit for all Rule related purposes. It would therefore stand to reason that it must also be considered part of that Unit for Preferred Enemy purposes as well. As the Attack is being directed against a Unit that was chosen from the Codex mentioned within Preferred Enemy, the requirements to be attacking your Preferred Enemy have been met. At that point it doesn't matter where the individual Wounds would fall, as they all have a 100% chance of being allocated to a model treated as part of that Unit for all Rule related purposes.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Tau character in a Space Marines squad - PE: Space Marines works

Space Marine character in a Tau squad - PE: SM does not work

IC mixed unit of Space Marines and Tau - ... I honestly have no idea.

^This pretty much. Like Raven said, there's a lot of special rules that treat the entire enemy unit as being from the codex of the base unit.

If someone was to make their own squad of IC guys, I think I'd just say you'd get preferred enemy against them for the sake of ease. The issue is most people running such a squad are probably doing it to abuse some rule here and there, so they'll fight you tooth and nail to not allow you any perceived advantage at all.

I would also go by the unit, not the attached IC.

Hm. Gravstar is the issue and firing the Firebase Support stuff at it.

ICs very specifically join and become a part of the units they join.

A Space marine Captain that joins a Tau Fire Warrior unit stops being a Space marine unit and starts being part of a Tau unit(and More specifically part of a Fire warrior unit); You could then still have a Fireblade attach himself to that Fire Warrior unit since it never stops being a Fire Warrior unit.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
ICs very specifically join and become a part of the units they join.

A Space marine Captain that joins a Tau Fire Warrior unit stops being a Space marine unit and starts being part of a Tau unit(and More specifically part of a Fire warrior unit); You could then still have a Fireblade attach himself to that Fire Warrior unit since it never stops being a Fire Warrior unit.

While I would be inclined to agree that a Space Marine who joins a Fire Warrior unit is no longer considered a Space Marine for affiliation purposes, the community as a whole seems to disagree, at least when it comes to Transports.

Bottom line, is that the rules are vague on this point. Sufficiently so that you should always check with a TO if this rule is something that might be an issue with your lists. (And with your opponent in a friendly game.)

He is considered a Space Marine and a Tau Fire Warrior simultaneously.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
ICs very specifically join and become a part of the units they join.

A Space marine Captain that joins a Tau Fire Warrior unit stops being a Space marine unit and starts being part of a Tau unit(and More specifically part of a Fire warrior unit); You could then still have a Fireblade attach himself to that Fire Warrior unit since it never stops being a Fire Warrior unit.

While I would be inclined to agree that a Space Marine who joins a Fire Warrior unit is no longer considered a Space Marine for affiliation purposes, the community as a whole seems to disagree, at least when it comes to Transports.

Bottom line, is that the rules are vague on this point. Sufficiently so that you should always check with a TO if this rule is something that might be an issue with your lists. (And with your opponent in a friendly game.)

I didnt say he is no longer a space marine, I said he is no longer a space marine Unit. Which is true and factual.

And i specifically was not getting into the transport issue, I understand the community(or specific very loud individuals within the community) has their view on this and we do not need to get into that right now. But preferred enemy is "More clearly written" in that it very specifically effects units of a given faction and the Captain is not a Space marine unit in this scenario.

So yes he is a Space marine, no he is not a space marine unit, yes he is now a space Marine inside of a Tau Fire Warrior unit. Preferred enemy: Space marine does not care whether or not he is a Space marine, it cares whether or not he is a Space marine Unit.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
ICs very specifically join and become a part of the units they join.

A Space marine Captain that joins a Tau Fire Warrior unit stops being a Space marine unit and starts being part of a Tau unit(and More specifically part of a Fire warrior unit); You could then still have a Fireblade attach himself to that Fire Warrior unit since it never stops being a Fire Warrior unit.

While I would be inclined to agree that a Space Marine who joins a Fire Warrior unit is no longer considered a Space Marine for affiliation purposes, the community as a whole seems to disagree, at least when it comes to Transports.

Bottom line, is that the rules are vague on this point. Sufficiently so that you should always check with a TO if this rule is something that might be an issue with your lists. (And with your opponent in a friendly game.)

I didnt say he is no longer a space marine, I said he is no longer a space marine Unit. Which is true and factual.

And i specifically was not getting into the transport issue, I understand the community(or specific very loud individuals within the community) has their view on this and we do not need to get into that right now. But preferred enemy is "More clearly written" in that it very specifically effects units of a given faction and the Captain is not a Space marine unit in this scenario.

So yes he is a Space marine, no he is not a space marine unit, yes he is now a space Marine inside of a Tau Fire Warrior unit. Preferred enemy: Space marine does not care whether or not he is a Space marine, it cares whether or not he is a Space marine Unit.

Is it not possible to be both a Space Marine Unit and a Tau Unit? Would the Space Marine Captain no longer benefit from rules that effect Space Marine Units such as "And they shall know no fear"?

Zimko wrote:
Is it not possible to be both a Space Marine Unit and a Tau Unit?

Absent a rule allowing it, no.

Would the Space Marine Captain no longer benefit from rules that effect Space Marine Units such as "And they shall know no fear"?

ATSKNF is in the BRB now - it's not limited to Space Marine units.
In fact, you should probably read the rule - it applies to any unit a model that has it has joined.

Zimko wrote:
Is it not possible to be both a Space Marine Unit and a Tau Unit? Would the Space Marine Captain no longer benefit from rules that effect Space Marine Units such as "And they shall know no fear"?

It is not possible, as the IC becomes a normal member of the unit (albeit one with different rules and wargear) so the SM Captain is part of a Tau unit. Whhy would hte Captain no longer benefit from ATSKNF? He has the rule, he benefits from it. He would not benefit, however from anything that refers to Space Marine units, or SM units with codex specific rules (such as the Assault Doctrine for UM).

rigeld2 wrote:

Zimko wrote:
Is it not possible to be both a Space Marine Unit and a Tau Unit?

Absent a rule allowing it, no.

Would the Space Marine Captain no longer benefit from rules that effect Space Marine Units such as "And they shall know no fear"?

ATSKNF is in the BRB now - it's not limited to Space Marine units.
In fact, you should probably read the rule - it applies to any unit a model that has it has joined.

Fair enough about the ATSKNF point. I'm probably performing some kind of sacrilegious act doing this, but my reasoning for thinking that a unit can be both Space Marine and Tau comes from playing MTG. A card that is both red and blue is effected by both spells that only effect blue spells and ones that only effect red spells. But I know this holds no bearing on WH40k, I'm just explaining why I thought the way I did. It could be a basis for creating a house-rule.

Zimko wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Zimko wrote:
Is it not possible to be both a Space Marine Unit and a Tau Unit?

Absent a rule allowing it, no.

Would the Space Marine Captain no longer benefit from rules that effect Space Marine Units such as "And they shall know no fear"?

ATSKNF is in the BRB now - it's not limited to Space Marine units.
In fact, you should probably read the rule - it applies to any unit a model that has it has joined.

Fair enough about the ATSKNF point. I'm probably performing some kind of sacrilegious act doing this, but my reasoning for thinking that a unit can be both Space Marine and Tau comes from playing MTG. A card that is both red and blue is effected by both spells that only effect blue spells and ones that only effect red spells. But I know this holds no bearing on WH40k, I'm just explaining why I thought the way I did. It could be a basis for creating a house-rule.

The thing about it is that in this Case the rules are clear as to what an IC does.

The IC becomes a full part of the unit he joins for all rules purposes, and you cannot have the IC also be a unit within the joined unit(it defeats the whole purpose of the IC rule).

The ICs never lose their status as an "X"-model(X being the codex they are from), but they also do not effect the state of the unit they join in any way.

In M:tG, The rules specifically tell you that multi-color cards are considered each color, and that makes sense in that format. In 40k you a specifically told that the IC becomes part of the squad joined for all rules purposes. For the purpose of Preferred enemy (Tau) the Captain is part of the Tau unit. For the purposes of Preferred Enemy (Space marines) the Captain is part of the Tau unit.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Zimko wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Zimko wrote:
Is it not possible to be both a Space Marine Unit and a Tau Unit?

Absent a rule allowing it, no.

Would the Space Marine Captain no longer benefit from rules that effect Space Marine Units such as "And they shall know no fear"?

ATSKNF is in the BRB now - it's not limited to Space Marine units.
In fact, you should probably read the rule - it applies to any unit a model that has it has joined.

Fair enough about the ATSKNF point. I'm probably performing some kind of sacrilegious act doing this, but my reasoning for thinking that a unit can be both Space Marine and Tau comes from playing MTG. A card that is both red and blue is effected by both spells that only effect blue spells and ones that only effect red spells. But I know this holds no bearing on WH40k, I'm just explaining why I thought the way I did. It could be a basis for creating a house-rule.

The thing about it is that in this Case the rules are clear as to what an IC does.

The IC becomes a full part of the unit he joins for all rules purposes, and you cannot have the IC also be a unit within the joined unit(it defeats the whole purpose of the IC rule).

The ICs never lose their status as an "X"-model(X being the codex they are from), but they also do not effect the state of the unit they join in any way.

In M:tG, The rules specifically tell you that multi-color cards are considered each color, and that makes sense in that format. In 40k you a specifically told that the IC becomes part of the squad joined for all rules purposes. For the purpose of Preferred enemy (Tau) the Captain is part of the Tau unit. For the purposes of Preferred Enemy (Space marines) the Captain is part of the Tau unit.

Thank you for explaining the difference in relation to MTG for me. It completely makes sense to me now.

I was reading something about something like this in one of the more recent rule books last week. I remember thinking 'Hmm, this could be applied to PE in mixed units'.

But maybe I dremt it because I can't remember for the life of me what it was.

But anyway, the IC does not 'become a normal member of the unit', that's not what the rule says.
IC is part of the unit for all rules purpopses, the BRB page for Characters (sixty something?) gives futher explination to that sentance.

For a rules purpose, is that unit a Space Marine or Tau unit?