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So I just had a game with a guy who ran multiple Battlewagons and had different squads in each (tankbustas and burnas). He had a model from each unit placed on the back, without caring to lean half way over the middle of the table to inspect, or to just grab his models, I asked him which squad was in each transport. His response was: "I don't have to tell you that". His friend confirmed that this was definitely the case. I couldn't find anything specific in the rulebook, and I'm wondering if this is actually correct gameplay, and everyone I've ever played in the entirety of ever so far was friendly enough or just hasn't bothered wasting both our time. Does he not have to specify which squad is in each transport so long as he has a model from each representing it? And how far does the ruling go, if I was against an opponent with mixed weapons, as long as he had a model from each relevant squad is it still enough? FYI his account of the ruling was that he only had to point to which squad from the sidelines was which, and I had to recognize & cross-reference with his list, which models were equipped with which guns by eye-balling them, as everything was WYSIWYG. Looking for some clarification here. And what to say to the guy if he does it again.

I don't believe (to my knowledge at the moment) there is a rule in the book that says you must tell your opponent what exactly everything is, as long as you know what it is that he has brought.

Good sportsmanship and manners on the other hand..

Then what is to stop someone just picking and choosing which unit to disembark for the situation? eg. thoughtprocess: Hmmm I have a venom next to your land raider, do I want Wyches or Warriors more? I Actually think I'll go with Blasterborn for lance shots



How accurately represented does it have to be?

Sure theres something about making it clear what is in what transport.... though that might just be for reserves.

If not obviosly it makes it really easy for them to cheat.

P.188 - "always make it clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which Transports"

beast_gts wrote:
P.188 - "always make it clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which Transports"

Thanks heaps! Can I find that in the MRB?

 SHUPPET wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
P.188 - "always make it clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which Transports"

Thanks heaps! Can I find that in the MRB?

Yes. It's page 188 (in mine anyway): Fighting a Battle > A Note On Secrecy

Thanks I looked it up in the index. Confusion was that you are saying 188, thats 32 more pages than the MRB has Actual info is on 118. Thanks heaps for your help.

You're right, it's 118 - I blame man-flu :-(

INdeed - and to be specific, "make it clear" means you have to either show the exact models, which of course are wysiwyg so you can clearly tell WHAT squad is in the transport, or - much easier - just state "10 marines, plasma, multimelta, power weapon sarge".

Some will claim that they dont have to do either, but I find not playing them is also an option. Too easy to play a shell game.

This guy was the definition of unpleasant to play against. Friendly game - asked what army I was playing, then built his list on the spot. Packed the best counter he could muster. Went 10 points over the limit - I agreed to bump my list up 10 points. Did not actually provide a list, just had a bunch of maths scribbled down. I'm ok with all of this. Then attempts this cheese. ~_~ I'm a fairly new player and very new to club. He's well aware of this.

Are all the players in the club douche-bags, or just him and his friend?


His response was: "I don't have to tell you that".
Your response was: "I don't have to play you. Have a good day"

I'm still fairly new to the group so I shouldn't judge everyone, only played a few people. Everyone is very friendly but most are quite young / immature. Some I had a lot of fun playing and were boisterous and gracious in both victory and defeat. Others like this guy, who claims to be a 6 year vet, while otherwise friendly seem to take the gameplay aspect far too seriously and will do whatever to win and get quite agitated and snappy while on the losing side of field. He also took the time out to yell across to his pal on another table in an informative manner everything he got a good kill. Eg "flyrant down turn 1!" . I felt a bit like... Congrats, he saw I was playing an MC list and took nothing but rokkit spammed wherever possible including but not limited to 40 tankbustas & 3 battle wagons at 1500 pts... He also started flicking over my termagant models that he had killed before I quickly made him stop (I'm usually cool with people moving my models but this guy showed me there is a limit). Dude is over 20 years old I think just below my age (23) and still after all this had to make comments after the game about how he felt it didn't take long for him to win ("I felt like it took me longer for us to set up than for us to play LOL" etc, but it's cool, I made a few play mistakes and let him get away with a little silliness, I'm quite confident that I will take him in a rematch (without having to tailor a list) and even more confident that the loss is going to mean far more to him than it does to me lol

The "secret surprise" mentality is often a hold over from the old 2nd edition days, when you didn't have to reveal the contents of a transport. Some friends of mine got back into 40K recently having left it when 3rd edition came out, and I've had to break them of that habit. One of them actually refuses to even try the game because of that, claiming it "takes all the tactics out". My response was, "No, it takes some of the cheating out."

If you read the section on secrecy on page 118 entirely and in context you will see that what it says is that it must be made clear what units are in which transports, but that unless it is agreed upon, you don't need to show your list to your opponent until after the game.

That being said, in a friendly game I generally let my opponent know which transport contains which unit at start of game. In any other games, unless it is stated we show the list to the opponent before the match I just make sure it is noted on the list which unit is in which transport (each of my wave serpents has a different color of gemstone to make this easy). Since it is written down before the game starts, there can be no dispute over which unit was supposed to be in which transport.

However, you have not made it clear which if the units on the table top waiting to disembark (as your models are out, on the surface, so I can see them) are there - unless you point at them and say "red gemstone, these guys" and then, through wysiwyg I can work out exactly what the models are.

Anything less than that and it is NOT "clear", and therefore you have not complied with the rule. It isnt difficult to have different lists that say exactly what arrangement wasbeneficial to you in that match up.

It isnt even that realistic that a commander wouldnt know, given our SIGINT capabilities currently....

As others have mentioned, BRB is clear that you must identify which squad is in which.

Our own house rule is that we write down which unit is in which transport at the beginning of the game, and then keep it secret. The transport shell game is an interesting one to play.

tbh he plays orks so it should be pretty hard for him to beat your army unless he hard core specializes his list (who the hell uses tankbustas.... literally are total garbage vs 90% of armies) Also if you use the sky blight dataslate there would be more or less nothing he could do to beat you so if he tries to cheat you out of games you could always use a list he would be hard pressed to win against regardless of what he used. Imo if someone asks me what list im using I tell the "its a surprise." Because I faced a ton of morons who thought they should customize their list for the army I was taking.

I would also bring a hammer with me next time because if he flicked one of my models i would smash his battlewagon to bits and tell him "I gave you a 5 point upgrade your orks blood gave it a red paint job."