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So I want to do this partially as a challenge, partially as a curiosity to how viable we can make it.

HQ: Old One Eye or Deathleaper - I prefer OOE. He's significantly cheaper than he used to be and not ineffective. Plus, he lets everyone else use his amazing 8 leadership for IB tests.
Elite: Venomthropes would be good, but they're IB:Lurk... Lictors or Haruspexes might be good alternatives (Lictors are Lurk also, but they're LD10)
Troops: Oof. Genestealers or Hormagaunts are the only decent options, and Hormagaunts eat themselves.
FA: Anything is decent - no Lurks around.
HS: Again - all the favorites is fine.

So OOE leading an infiltrating Stealer horde backed up by Harpies and some other Carnifexes...

Could it work?

rigeld2 wrote:
So I want to do this partially as a challenge, partially as a curiosity to how viable we can make it.

HQ: Old One Eye or Deathleaper - I prefer OOE. He's significantly cheaper than he used to be and not ineffective. Plus, he lets everyone else use his amazing 8 leadership for IB tests.
Elite: Venomthropes would be good, but they're IB:Lurk... Lictors or Haruspexes might be good alternatives (Lictors are Lurk also, but they're LD10)
Troops: Oof. Genestealers or Hormagaunts are the only decent options, and Hormagaunts eat themselves.
FA: Anything is decent - no Lurks around.
HS: Again - all the favorites is fine.

So OOE leading an infiltrating Stealer horde backed up by Harpies and some other Carnifexes...

Could it work?

Rigeld, I actually worked on something like this a little bit ago. The trick is to actually maximize IB.

Keep Old One Eye as your HQ, for the warlord trait. He will be durable. Bring some basic Screamer Killers for your HS, with only 1 per unit to avoid IB. Use MSU genestealers for late game scorers, and just let the Termagants get into cover halfway down field with some devourers, etc, to keep on some pressure. Lictors make decent backfield pressure units in the new formation that uses 5, and you get to nab Deathleaper as well. I recommend using Trygons for the tunnels, for bringing in more gants to apply pressure as needed.

I would almost go with 2 ripper swarms, and then use manufactorum or hunting packs. I think Dataslates help this idea a bit. You want this straight codex or slates included?

I agree with OOE as HQ, between the LD8 bubble and Adaptive warlord trait he makes a solid core choice.

For Elites I am thinking Haruspex might work well with OOE.

Troops I think MSU stealers will be the best, maybe add 'lords for horror support.

Keep a Crone and Gargoyle in the FA slots. Crone matches the 'pex and OOE as an assault monster, and a fat gargs unit will make a fast screen.

Maybe a Tfex , cfex brood, and full biovore brood.

This will be a very assault centric list so the the garg screen and maybe a hormie screen will be very useful. AG on everyone to keep the speed up and hit a bit harder on charge. Any that can get fleshhooks or cluster spines needs them. You can fit most of that in to 2000pts and have 9 MC/FMC and 4 stealer broods to contend with.

barnowl wrote:
You want this straight codex or slates included?

Preferably straight Codex - most of my meta is anti-slate.

So everyone agrees on OOE - awesome.

This will be a very assault centric list so the the garg screen and maybe a hormie screen will be very useful. AG on everyone to keep the speed up and hit a bit harder on charge. Any that can get fleshhooks or cluster spines needs them. You can fit most of that in to 2000pts and have 9 MC/FMC and 4 stealer broods to contend with.

So dakkafexes or Screamer-Killers?

Is the IB:Feed on Fexes really that bad in a brood? 3 S9 AP- hits... it's about as scary as a Deffrolla. Are we scared of Deffrollas?

rigeld2 wrote:


Is the IB:Feed on Fexes really that bad in a brood? 3 S9 AP- hits... it's about as scary as a Deffrolla. Are we scared of Deffrollas?

I avoid the hassle of losing a wound on a valuable unit when I don't have to. I would rather them take their anger out on the food rather than each other. Also, I have never encountered a Deffrolla, so I will simply fall back on my infinite Tyranid wisdom. Give me a few days to get a game together and throw a Carnifex at it. If it kills the Carnifex, yes. If not, no.

After all, isn't this how all Tyranids gauge a problem; by the amount of Carifexes it takes to kill it?

The thing about the one eyed monster is, how do you keep him alive? He's a single 4W guy. Bubblewrap and a venom? Whats to stop someone blowing him up with a few krak or lascannon shots?

I'm not trying to bash you, I just want to know how you wanna do it.

rigeld2 wrote:

So dakkafexes or Screamer-Killers?

Screamer-Killers. That way when you fail your IB test half the time you won't be sad that your guns don't work.

Sidguard wrote:
The thing about the one eyed monster is, how do you keep him alive? He's a single 4W guy. Bubblewrap and a venom? Whats to stop someone blowing him up with a few krak or lascannon shots?

I'm not trying to bash you, I just want to know how you wanna do it.

Threat overload. If they're shooting at OOE, they're not shooting at the Fexes, Harpies, Stealersand Haruspexes that are also up in their grill.

Sure - it's an "easy" STW point, but that doesn't mean it'll always be the right target.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Arson Fire wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

So dakkafexes or Screamer-Killers?

Screamer-Killers. That way when you fail your IB test half the time you won't be sad that your guns don't work.

That's fair. Plus they're (slightly) cheaper.

Unyielding Hunger wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Is the IB:Feed on Fexes really that bad in a brood? 3 S9 AP- hits... it's about as scary as a Deffrolla. Are we scared of Deffrollas?

I avoid the hassle of losing a wound on a valuable unit when I don't have to. I would rather them take their anger out on the food rather than each other. Also, I have never encountered a Deffrolla, so I will simply fall back on my infinite Tyranid wisdom. Give me a few days to get a game together and throw a Carnifex at it. If it kills the Carnifex, yes. If not, no.

After all, isn't this how all Tyranids gauge a problem; by the amount of Carifexes it takes to kill it?

Deffrollas are D6 S10 AP- hits when a battlewagon tank shocks you, 2d6 if you DoG. Since DoG as an MC is dumb, you'll only take the 1d6 then get out of the way.

I played a game like this.
Old One Eye
2 groups of 30 Termagants
Mawloc
20 Gargoyles
Hive Crone
Biovores
Tyrannofex

Anyway, Turn 1 (I have first turn), 1 Termagant Brood runs off the table. First Blood for my opponent.
Enemy Turn 1. Barrage on other group of Termagants, they fail morale and run off the table.
After that it was pretty much a mop up. I think OOE was the only thing to survive at the end of Turn 5. The fact I made it that far impressed both of us.

Right - Termagants are the absolute wrong troop choice for this. I have no doubt in my mind.

rigeld2 wrote:
Right - Termagants are the absolute wrong troop choice for this. I have no doubt in my mind.

I agree wholeheartedly. It was something to try out and the game was rather interesting.

For the store campaign, my Kill Team consists of a Lictor, a Broodlord, and Genestealers. I only have trouble with one army and it is the one that contains Noise Marines with Sonic Blasters.

A venomthorpes in bastion is fearless and has a huge footprint for shrouded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:


After all, isn't this how all Tyranids gauge a problem; by the amount of Carifexes it takes to kill it?

Exalt.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
A venomthorpes in bastion is fearless and has a huge footprint for shrouded.

Fearless yes. Immune to IB no. As it is, it's undefined what happens if you flee while inside a building so I'd rather not deal with that.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
A venomthorpes in bastion is fearless and has a huge footprint for shrouded.

Fearless yes. Immune to IB no. As it is, it's undefined what happens if you flee while inside a building so I'd rather not deal with that.

Fearless models can fall back all of a sudden? Do we have fearless lurker a already? Why is that a point of contention?

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
A venomthorpes in bastion is fearless and has a huge footprint for shrouded.

Fearless yes. Immune to IB no. As it is, it's undefined what happens if you flee while inside a building so I'd rather not deal with that.

Fearless models can fall back all of a sudden? Do we have fearless lurker a already? Why is that a point of contention?

Fearless just lets you auto-pass Morale tests.
Lurking and rolling a 1-3 isn't a morale test - it's a fall back move.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
A venomthorpes in bastion is fearless and has a huge footprint for shrouded.

Fearless yes. Immune to IB no. As it is, it's undefined what happens if you flee while inside a building so I'd rather not deal with that.

Fearless models can fall back all of a sudden? Do we have fearless lurker a already? Why is that a point of contention?

Fearless just lets you auto-pass Morale tests.
Lurking and rolling a 1-3 isn't a morale test - it's a fall back move.

Check the FA- oh wait, NEVERMIND.

Yeah - hence why it's an undefined interaction. Instead of arguing about it I just choose not to have it come up in my games.

rigeld2 wrote:

This will be a very assault centric list so the the garg screen and maybe a hormie screen will be very useful. AG on everyone to keep the speed up and hit a bit harder on charge. Any that can get fleshhooks or cluster spines needs them. You can fit most of that in to 2000pts and have 9 MC/FMC and 4 stealer broods to contend with.

So dakkafexes or Screamer-Killers?

Is the IB:Feed on Fexes really that bad in a brood? 3 S9 AP- hits... it's about as scary as a Deffrolla. Are we scared of Deffrollas?

I ran my numbers with a plasma free S-K. The Cluster Spines still give it an 18" shooting attack, and if you just have to have a classic screamer the 12" plasma blast can come in handy.

The real issue I see with failing an IB:feed 1-3 on the fex brood is going to be the fact they sit around doing nothing for a turn, more than the risk of being wounded.

A Carnifex does not have access to Cluster Spines, they can get Spine Banks but those are only 8" range.

Yeah, the fact that you lose a turn is a much bigger deal than the hits from the 1-3 result on IB:Feed.

I think OOE needs the list building around him. He's high priority target so needs the 3+ cover.

I'd go DL, max out Hive Guard, Trygons/ Mawlocs, Stealers + BLs and Crones.

Or Subterrainean Swarm.

Fast and hard hitting.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
A Carnifex does not have access to Cluster Spines, they can get Spine Banks but those are only 8" range.

Yeah, the fact that you lose a turn is a much bigger deal than the hits from the 1-3 result on IB:Feed.

Ack, your right, I still keep wanting to use the old codex upgrade list in my head.

I'm not a Tyranid player but the Deathleaper strikes me as being way better than OOE. 4 wounds on T6 on a 3+ with FnP that only triggers after failing a wound does not look like it could survive against anything.

OOE would be more worth taking if he had T7 and/or Ld9. His special rules are pretty underwhelming, and he's not too durable for a 220pt model.

Deathleaper on the other hand is full of nice little rules that can work quite well with synapse-less Nids. He's a good threat to most backfield units, and can negate an enemy psyker with his Ld penalty, making up for no SitW.
I'd run him with lictors, stealers, mawlocs and trygons. Some nice synergy there and little to fear from IB.

Don't forget you can only hit DL on snap shots. That rule makes me swear a blue streak up one side and down the other every time I fight him.

What exactly is the point of a no synapse list? You'll do the same list with a few synapse units so that you don't fall back early on.

 jifel wrote:
What exactly is the point of a no synapse list? You'll do the same list with a few synapse units so that you don't fall back early on.

The challenge and fun of it.

What's a "screamer killer"

Brutal Viking wrote:
What's a "screamer killer"

A Carnifex with two sets of Scything Talons and Bio-plasma.

Why is it called that? What's its main purpose? Sorry I'm very new to nids (played my first game tonight) and everything is extremely different from my Tau

"The Imperium's first recorded encounters with the Carnifex were in the battles against Hive Fleet Behemoth that lead up to the Battle for Macragge. As the Imperium tried to stop the Tyranids in space, Carnifexes were at the head of every boarding action. The strain of Carnifexes encountered became known as Screamer-Killers because of their terrible ululating shriek, caused by rasping plates in their oesophagus that were used to energize a form of bio-plasma in their gut in to shoot."