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2014/04/01 05:28:30
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
ClockworkZion wrote: You're like 98% right PrinceRaven but only because of two things:
Codex Inquisition lets the Inquisitor be the Warlord even if he's not in the Primary Detachment (it's mentioned under the Warlord traits section how an Inquisitor can be your Warlord of he's in the Inquisitorial detachment....which makes sense fluff wise but mucks with the rules).
Codex Supplement Iyanden lets you use a Wraithlord or Wraithknight as your Warlord and neither are characters.
Well, yeah, there are exceptions, but I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about when someone tries to bring a Tervigon as their only HQ choice or ally in Shadowsun and use her Warlord trait.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/04/01 05:30:11
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
That cover is model by model, not "half the squad is in cover".
That you can target just the models out of cover
Emergency disembarking rules
DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
Fully Painted armies:
TAU: 10k Nids: 9600 Marines: 4000 Crons: 7600
Actor, Gamer, Comic, Corporate Nerd
2014/04/01 05:37:06
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
- A model only needs to be obscured from 1 of the firing models to receive a cover save
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/04/01 05:44:58
Subject: Re:Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
WAAAGH Sparky! 1400 (ish) - On the rebound!
Kommander Sparks DKoK 1000 (ish) - Now on the backburner
- Men, you're lucky men. Soon, you'll all be fighting for your planet. Many of you will be dying for your planet. A few of you will be put through a fine mesh screen for your planet. They will be the luckiest of all.
2014/04/01 06:12:27
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
I forgot they "upgraded" the Wraithlord to character status though.
Nope, they were characters with the old codex too. Precision shooting Bright Lances baby!
Other rules that people get wrong are piling models into combat before their init step, and forgetting that they need to be within range of a model locked in combat to strike.
Using flamers over friendly models.
Asking for a morale check after each shooting attack, rather than at the end of the phase.
I played a guy at a tournament this past weekend who didn't put his Hive Crone's on their stands. I asked him to put the models on their stands and on the board. His reply was "But then I can't get them next to each other, they won't fit" I replied "My point exactly". He then went to the TO for a ruling, and was promptly told that it's a game of models, not bases.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/01 06:17:52
8,000 pts and counting
1,000 points, now painting.
2014/04/01 08:32:40
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
CrownAxe wrote: That the Aegis Defense Line works on TLoS like everything else
It baffles me how many times people claim that standing within 2" of it gives you its cover save
Weirdly enough, that was one of the many rules mistakes that made me abandon a gaming group. Seriously, I even had the rulebook out in front of me, and I explained how cover worked, but I still got outvoted, and only things within 2" of the ADL were allowed the 4+ save (while things further back got a 5+ save for being obscured).
I swear this group just played a mishmash of rules from 4th, 5th, and 6th edition, because some of the things that they would pull out were just bizarre.
To be fair though, cover has terrible rules and the Aegis makes that situation worse. Maybe they just house ruled it?
I would totally believe that if it weren't for everything else they "house ruled." Just a few examples:
1. Consolidating after an assault isn't a die roll anymore, it's just a flat 3".
2. If a vehicle is an assault vehicle, you can always disembark from it after moving, no matter how fast it moved.
3. You don't get Deny the Witch rolls against Witchfire powers. Why? Because the psyker is manifesting the power at himself and then firing it like a gun.
Believe me, the 2" cover rule was not an isolated incident. I stopped going to that game store because I got sick of trying to get people to actually follow the rules.
My Armies:
Kal'reia Sept Tau - Farsight Sympathizers Da Great Looted Waaagh! The Court of the Wolf Lords
I actually quite like that last one, there so many hoops you have to jump through to use Witchfires.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/04/01 10:05:54
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
Yeah, Witchfires should at least automatically hit like Maledictions / Blessings. It's silly how they need to pass a psychic test (with risk of wounds / death), roll to hit, pass an arbitrary anti-psyker save that all units get, and then the target still gets any usual protection such as cover saves.
Crazy.
2014/04/01 10:39:21
Subject: Re:Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
PrinceRaven wrote:- Scoring vehicles are not automatically denial units
Might I ask when this applies? I never knew this one.
Here's some;
- You may only accept (And I believe issue) a challenge if your model is engaged in combat AND a character. (You'd be surprised how many times people have tried to tell me "Oh, there's no character so I/you can accept with ANY model")
- When you charge you put the closest model to the closest model and then *attempt* to put the others into B2B with other enemy models. This does NOT give permission to move further than the 2D6" you rolled. -.- (Had a guy barely make it into B2B with the closest model and he moved the others behind my squad of 30 Boyz....)
- People thinking they can fire more witchfires than the model may normally fire as shooting attacks.
- Necron players shooting the Death Ray and firing the other weapons at a unit they didn't even hit with the ray.
- Necron players thinking that the Death Ray is from anywhere on the hull. Also ignoring firing arcs on the Death Ray. (that thing DOES have them, right?)
If I sound like I'm being a condescending butthole, I'm not. Read my reply as neutrally as possible, please and thank you.
2014/04/01 10:49:06
Subject: Re:Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
PrinceRaven wrote:- Scoring vehicles are not automatically denial units
Might I ask when this applies? I never knew this one.
Fast Attack vehicles in The Scouring, Heavy Support Vehicles in Big Guns Never Tire, and Imperial Knights taken in a Primary detachment are all scoring non-denial units.
Yes, people do seem to conveniently forget firing arcs, particularly on Flyers.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/04/01 11:00:03
Subject: Re:Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
PrinceRaven wrote:- Scoring vehicles are not automatically denial units
Might I ask when this applies? I never knew this one.
Fast Attack vehicles in The Scouring, Heavy Support Vehicles in Big Guns Never Tire, and Imperial Knights taken in a Primary detachment are all scoring non-denial units.
Yes, people do seem to conveniently forget firing arcs, particularly on Flyers.
Aha! Thank you.
Wait, so HS and FA can claim Linebreaker in Big Guns Never Tire and The Scouring respectively?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/01 11:00:30
If I sound like I'm being a condescending butthole, I'm not. Read my reply as neutrally as possible, please and thank you.
2014/04/01 11:01:21
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
Most of my group tends to forget that as vehicles, you ignore the Flyers base for just about everything, and measure to the hull. Especially when moving. Moving within the playing area not a big deal, however, they always try to get that extra inch when coming in from reserves.
PrinceRaven wrote:- Scoring vehicles are not automatically denial units
Might I ask when this applies? I never knew this one.
Fast Attack vehicles in The Scouring, Heavy Support Vehicles in Big Guns Never Tire, and Imperial Knights taken in a Primary detachment are all scoring non-denial units.
Yes, people do seem to conveniently forget firing arcs, particularly on Flyers.
Aha! Thank you.
Wait, so HS and FA can claim Linebreaker in Big Guns Never Tire and The Scouring respectively?
Correct.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/01 11:01:38
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2014/04/01 11:33:08
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
Happyjew wrote: Most of my group tends to forget that as vehicles, you ignore the Flyers base for just about everything, and measure to the hull. Especially when moving. Moving within the playing area not a big deal, however, they always try to get that extra inch when coming in from reserves.
PrinceRaven wrote:- Scoring vehicles are not automatically denial units
Might I ask when this applies? I never knew this one.
Fast Attack vehicles in The Scouring, Heavy Support Vehicles in Big Guns Never Tire, and Imperial Knights taken in a Primary detachment are all scoring non-denial units.
Yes, people do seem to conveniently forget firing arcs, particularly on Flyers.
Aha! Thank you.
Wait, so HS and FA can claim Linebreaker in Big Guns Never Tire and The Scouring respectively?
Correct.
Ah, thank you.
^_^
As for measuring on a flyer...
I had a guy that tried to claim an objective with a Doomscythe. He was measuring from the base, of course. The objective was on the lowest possible ground for a gaming board.
On topic;
- People think that flyers can't claim an objective (in Big Guns/Scouring, obviously) unless they hover. This *is* assuming that the hull is close enough, of course.
- People think you can't put the relic into a flyer that is zooming. (You can, it just automatically crashes.)
If I sound like I'm being a condescending butthole, I'm not. Read my reply as neutrally as possible, please and thank you.
2014/04/01 14:11:29
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
ClockworkZion wrote: You're like 98% right PrinceRaven but only because of two things:
Codex Inquisition lets the Inquisitor be the Warlord even if he's not in the Primary Detachment (it's mentioned under the Warlord traits section how an Inquisitor can be your Warlord of he's in the Inquisitorial detachment....which makes sense fluff wise but mucks with the rules).
Codex Supplement Iyanden lets you use a Wraithlord or Wraithknight as your Warlord and neither are characters.
Well, yeah, there are exceptions, but I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about when someone tries to bring a Tervigon as their only HQ choice or ally in Shadowsun and use her Warlord trait.
Tervigons are an HQ choice though. You have to take a bunch of Gaunts to be allowed to take them as a Troops choice.
And yeah, allies outside of the Inq don't get to be Warlords.
Tervigons aren't characters, so they can't your Warlord, thus no army can have a Tervigon as its only HQ.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/04/01 14:16:52
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
PrinceRaven wrote: Tervigons aren't characters, so they can't your Warlord, thus no army can have a Tervigon as its only HQ.
Except that there is nothing stopping you from doing it in the Nids Codex. And we've already got Wraithknight Warlords despite not being characters so it's not like it's the first example of this. But this will quickly turn into a RAW vs RAI so I'll stop here.
EDIT: And Imperial Knights have no characters either, but they still get Warlord Traits.
Maybe that should be considered a rule GW gets wrong in 40k?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/01 14:20:21
2014/04/01 14:27:56
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
PrinceRaven wrote: Tervigons aren't characters, so they can't your Warlord, thus no army can have a Tervigon as its only HQ.
Except that there is nothing stopping you from doing it in the Nids Codex. And we've already got Wraithknight Warlords despite not being characters so it's not like it's the first example of this. But this will quickly turn into a RAW vs RAI so I'll stop here.
Of course the rule isn't in the Nid Codex, it's in the Rulebook.
EDIT: And Imperial Knights have no characters either, but they still get Warlord Traits.
Maybe that should be considered a rule GW gets wrong in 40k?
Yes, because they have a rule that allows them to break the usual Warlord rules, like the Inquisition does and Tyranids don't.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/01 14:34:31
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/04/01 14:46:15
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
PrinceRaven wrote: Tervigons aren't characters, so they can't your Warlord, thus no army can have a Tervigon as its only HQ.
Except that there is nothing stopping you from doing it in the Nids Codex. And we've already got Wraithknight Warlords despite not being characters so it's not like it's the first example of this. But this will quickly turn into a RAW vs RAI so I'll stop here.
Of course the rule isn't in the Nid Codex, it's in the Rulebook.
Which is an issues because you shouldn't need to look in the rulebook to get the restrictions of your codex can and can't do like that. GW is usually pretty good about just saying what options are restricted in the book itself, so the fact that it doesn't tell players that they can't use a Tervigon as a Warlord is definitely GW's fault.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/01 14:46:42
2014/04/01 14:51:04
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
Well, if you're playing with an alternate Force Org Chart a Warlord might not be required.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/01 14:57:50
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/04/01 14:54:40
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
You're playing Kill Team, is a Warlord required? No.
That's why they don't put in the book, for the same reason they don't put the force org chart in the book. They're rules specific to playing the basic game laid out in the rulebook, while the Tyranid Codex can be used in more than just those missions.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/04/01 15:15:18
Subject: Re:Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
While you are correct that it doesn't, it is also a variant game that still has warlord like traits in it. Also good luck fitting 30 Gaunts and a Tervigon in a 200 point list.
PrinceRaven wrote: That's why they don't put in the book, for the same reason they don't put the force org chart in the book. They're rules specific to playing the basic game laid out in the rulebook, while the Tyranid Codex can be used in more than just those missions.
I'll b honest, I didn't even notice that they pulled FOC out of the 6th edition codexes. I don't see why when 5th ed had them and those books were meant for Kill Teams, Cities of Death and Battle Missions though.
And as I pointed out, the requirement to take a Warlord is not bound to FOC, it's bound to the rules involving Warlords.
2014/04/01 15:54:10
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
That SM chapter master with all the fun wargear and a bike in front of the unit of Centurians? Yeah I am going to focus fire on the models without a cover save (from jink).
"I'm not much for prejudice, I prefer to judge people by whats inside, and how much fun it is to get to those insides." - Unknown Haemonculi
2014/04/01 15:59:12
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
PrinceRaven wrote: Well, if you're playing with an alternate Force Org Chart a Warlord might not be required.
Warlords aren't a requirement by FOC, they're required by the rules for Warlords.
doesnt the new nid book tell you you HAVE to roll on the warlord table... and its being disputed as pure raw which is great in YMDC.... sadly the real world tends to invade when the rules are written by GW and their loose english and double using of words. these rules arent written to MTG standards.
Are you referring to this rule?
"When generating its Warlord Traits, a Tyranid Warlord may either roll on one of the Warlord Traits tables in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, or instead roll on the Warlord Traits table presented here."
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/04/01 16:11:42
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
as i dont own the nid dex its something i have heard that it was a they ahd to roll on the table.
perhaps im also missing how many armies have a HQ, thats NOT a character? im just going through the codex's i have. from 6th that seems to be the only hq choice not labeled a character... would you consider this an oversight from GW? their typical balls up? or saying character in more than one sense?
(if they exist id love a list) dont bother with stuff like x model in a command squad isnt a character but yeah
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/01 16:16:29
xttz wrote: "Every army contains at least one Headquarters unit, and a character from one of the army's HQ units must be nominated as the army's Warlord"
~BRB pg108
It's clearly an oversight - as people have already stated you can have Knight or Wraithknight warlords, which aren't Characters.
I think I was the only one who was actually making a point of that, and last I checked the only time I've ever used "we" was to invoke the "royal we" as in "we are not amused at being referred to as a group of people".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ausYenLoWang wrote: as i dont own the nid dex its something i have heard that it was a they ahd to roll on the table.
perhaps im also missing how many armies have a HQ, thats NOT a character? im just going through the codex's i have. from 6th that seems to be the only hq choice not labeled a character... would you consider this an oversight from GW? their typical balls up? or saying character in more than one sense?
Tervigons might benefit from character status. Powerfist Sarge runs up and gets crumped in a challenge by Crushing Claws because MCs don't care about "unwieldly".
But yes, it's an oversight by GW one way or the other.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/01 16:18:54
2014/04/01 16:27:24
Subject: Rules that people get wrong in Warhammer 40,000.
Now I think we are dangerously making a YMDC here. But now I am confused. I thought WE HAD TO have a Warlord.
So is CWZ saying taking a Warlord is optional? I thought it was Mandatory.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
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