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The Craftworld Eldar are fickle to start with, and their Dark cousins are outright terrifying.

Apparently one of the reasons the Imperium hates all Eldar so much is because they don't distinguish between Commorrites and Craftworlders. Is this portion mentioned in the fluff?

Yeah, its often mentioned.

They are aware there is a difference, but from their perspective its only a minor one. You can't trust any Eldar, regardless of what his armor is.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, its often mentioned.

They are aware there is a difference, but from their perspective its only a minor one. You can't trust any Eldar, regardless of what his armor is.

Plus it's not like the Craftworld Eldar are super-duper 100% nice all the time anyways.

Maximus Bitch wrote:
The Craftworld Eldar are fickle to start with, and their Dark cousins are outright terrifying.

Apparently one of the reasons the Imperium hates all Eldar so much is because they don't distinguish between Commorrites and Craftworlders. Is this portion mentioned in the fluff?

The Imperium doesn't hate Eldar, in fact they're not too bad because they're moderately humanoid and can be reasoned with (both Commorites and Eldar).
And, I assume it's quite easy to distinguish between the two, they have very different aesthetics and characteristics. I imagine it's akin to distinguishing Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines.

Not really. The average Imperial is going to receive a basic physical description of the Xeno in question. Eldar are Eldar are Eldar.

And most are unaware Chaos Marines even exist.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not really. The average Imperial is going to receive a basic physical description of the Xeno in question. Eldar are Eldar are Eldar.

And most are unaware Chaos Marines even exist.

We're not talking about the average Imperial citizen we're talking about the 'Imperium', the organisation and governmental system. I'm sure the Imperium is capable of distinguishing between the two.

Yes, but only the very high commanding officers will know there is a difference. And even then the difference won't really change how they treat Eldar.

Remember that even Craftworld Eldar often become pirates and renegades. True proper Craftworlders aren't going to be encountered very often. its usually going to be Eldar and Dark Eldar pirates 99% of the time. Except from the occasional Craftworld who is acting under the precognition of a Farseer. In which case they're still going to be hostile most of the time.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, but only the very high commanding officers will know there is a difference. And even then the difference won't really change how they treat Eldar.

Remember that even Craftworld Eldar often become pirates and renegades. True proper Craftworlders aren't going to be encountered very often. its usually going to be Eldar and Dark Eldar pirates 99% of the time. Except from the occasional Craftworld who is acting under the precognition of a Farseer. In which case they're still going to be hostile most of the time.

true dat.

does anyone know where this is actually written in the fluff? that the imperium can't distinguish

You can usually assume that unless it's a Space Marine, Xenos Inquisitor, or particularly intelligent Imperial Guard/Navy officer of high rank, they probably don't know the difference.

The Imperium hates everything that isn't Human. The Imperium respects the Eldars' power and understands that a live-and-let-live philosophy is possible with them. That's about as far as their feelings go.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The Imperium hates everything that isn't Human. The Imperium respects the Eldars' power and understands that a live-and-let-live philosophy is possible with them. That's about as far as their feelings go.

The Eldar and the Imperium have been allies on many very important occasions. Hell, hostilities between the Eldar of Ulthwe and the Imperium have all but stopped since the 13th Black Crusade. They are so busy fight Chaos that they often find themselves fighting on the same side of the same battlefield.

As for knowing the difference between Eldar and Dark Eldar, as stated above, only high ranking officials, Inquisitors and Space Marines would really know the difference.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The Imperium hates everything that isn't Human. The Imperium respects the Eldars' power and understands that a live-and-let-live philosophy is possible with them. That's about as far as their feelings go.

The Eldar and the Imperium have been allies on many very important occasions. Hell, hostilities between the Eldar of Ulthwe and the Imperium have all but stopped since the 13th Black Crusade. They are so busy fight Chaos that they often find themselves fighting on the same side of the same battlefield.

As for knowing the difference between Eldar and Dark Eldar, as stated above, only high ranking officials, Inquisitors and Space Marines would really know the difference.

This sums it all up really, and yes. Only a very few would be able to tell the diference between the two brands of ponity eared vermin

Hostilities have only stopped in so much as that the Imperium has bigger concerns than a race that isn't overtly hostile and actually avoids confrontation in most situations.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
The Eldar and the Imperium have been allies on many very important occasions. Hell, hostilities between the Eldar of Ulthwe and the Imperium have all but stopped since the 13th Black Crusade. They are so busy fight Chaos that they often find themselves fighting on the same side of the same battlefield.

As for knowing the difference between Eldar and Dark Eldar, as stated above, only high ranking officials, Inquisitors and Space Marines would really know the difference.

The Tau and the Imperium have allied to fight the Tyranids before- that didn't stop the Tau from invading Imperial worlds and butchering Imperial troops a year later.

Ulthwe is assisting the Imperium in fighting Chaos- simultaneously, on the other side of the Galaxy, Biel-Tan is massacring Imperial worlds and fighting Imperial troops in order to starve Hive Fleet Leviathan.

Allies of convenience does not imply camaraderie. The Eldar and the Imperium are enemies, but they're also one of three races in the Galaxy (the third being the Tau) who are wise enough to realize that sometimes there are bigger fish to fry.

There are several stories (though I can't recall any by name at the moment) and insinuation in the 6th Edition BRB that some Imperium commanders can't tell the difference between craftworld and dark eldar. In their defense, in some cases, from an Imperial perspective, there isn't much difference depending on what craft world you're dealing with.

However, there are definately other members of the Imperium who are well-aware of the difference, I'm sure. Although I don't recall any story explicitly stating as such, the fact that many stories from an Imperium perspective bother to label Dark Eldar as dark eldar at all shows that some are aware that the two are separate cultures (on a larger scale. On a smaller scale, Biel Tan is culturally very different from Ulthwe in terms of Imperium relations). That's also presumably why the Craftworld Eldar go by a different (and significantly more lenient) allies matrix than Dark Eldar for pretty much all Imperial armies. At best the Imperium is Desperate Allies with Dark Eldar and usually won't ally at all, whereas Craftworld Eldar are usually allies of convenience even for the Inquisition (...and the Legion of the Damned for some reason IIRC, which I guess shows even Emps himself might be willing to work with the Eldar if Emps is the one guiding the legion via the tarot).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Allies of convenience does not imply camaraderie. The Eldar and the Imperium are enemies, but they're also one of three races in the Galaxy (the third being the Tau) who are wise enough to realize that sometimes there are bigger fish to fry.

Yea, I recall one story had the Eldar working with the Imperium but included a sentence along the lines of "Of course, they didn't fight side by side with the monkeigh", showing that even while allied up, they still hold humans in disdain.

The one exception is the 2nd Battle of Tallarn where they actually exchanged vows of friendship. I think that's before GW decided too many people were beginning to view the Eldar as "the good guys" and made the Eldar more dick-ish.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
The Eldar and the Imperium have been allies on many very important occasions. Hell, hostilities between the Eldar of Ulthwe and the Imperium have all but stopped since the 13th Black Crusade. They are so busy fight Chaos that they often find themselves fighting on the same side of the same battlefield.

As for knowing the difference between Eldar and Dark Eldar, as stated above, only high ranking officials, Inquisitors and Space Marines would really know the difference.

The Tau and the Imperium have allied to fight the Tyranids before- that didn't stop the Tau from invading Imperial worlds and butchering Imperial troops a year later.

Ulthwe is assisting the Imperium in fighting Chaos- simultaneously, on the other side of the Galaxy, Biel-Tan is massacring Imperial worlds and fighting Imperial troops in order to starve Hive Fleet Leviathan.

Allies of convenience does not imply camaraderie. The Eldar and the Imperium are enemies, but they're also one of three races in the Galaxy (the third being the Tau) who are wise enough to realize that sometimes there are bigger fish to fry.

I would argue that the Necrons are not above this either, all though its very rare.

If you had to divide the races of 40k into two sides, I'd say it's:

SIDE A: DOMINATE THE INFERIOR
The Imperium of Man
The Craftworld Eldar
The Tau Empire
The Necron Dynasties

SIDE B: LETS BURN IT ALL DOWN
The Legions of Chaos
The Dark Eldar
The Orks
The Tyranids

The Imperium does not distinguish between the different factions of the Eldar, and I doubt most Imperials are even aware that the Eldar are not a unified whole but made up of a collection of independent Craftworld, Kabals, Exodites and Corsairs. And to be fair; the difference between the factions can be really small.
Imperials with a more than basic knowledge of the Eldar (Inquisitors, Astartes, veteran IG commanders) might be aware of the different factions and might even be able to tell whether an Eldar army is part of a Craftworld or a Commorite Kabal.
An important aspect in the Imperium's hostility towards the Eldar is that most Eldar they encounter are raiders, corsairs, pirates and highly agressive and genocidal craftworlds like Biel-Tan. Most Imperials wouldn't bother taking the time to find out to what faction an Eldar belongs; better to shoot them right away and be safe.
Some of the more friendly, moderate craftworlds have established a less hostile relation with the Imperium and sometimes work together, but those occasions are rare.

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:
If you had to divide the races of 40k into two sides, I'd say it's:

SIDE A: DOMINATE THE INFERIOR
The Imperium of Man
The Craftworld Eldar
The Tau Empire
The Necron Dynasties

SIDE B: LETS BURN IT ALL DOWN
The Legions of Chaos
The Dark Eldar
The Orks
The Tyranids

I think it was the 13th Black Crusade global campaign that actually broke those up into the forces of order and forces of disorder (not necessarily "Good and Evil", though it was noted that the concept of order was a bit more suitable to benevolence and cooperation). Of course, the layman's terms would be "Lawful" and "Chaotic".

(Necrons, Dark Eldar, and Tyrannids didn't actively cooperate or ally with their sides but it was noted that their actions tended to benefit and lean towards order and chaos respectively)

The organization is Order, Chaos and Neutral.

Order are generally seen to be working roughly towards the aim of protection of worlds, although this can cause conflict between them. Such races are the Imperium, Craftworld Eldar and Tau.

Chaos is the opposite; although reasons may differ, they seek to destroy and wreak havoc. This includes Chaos, Orks and Tyranids.

Neutral have no bias; they will work with whomever benefits their cause, or it may vary within the faction. Examples of this include Dark Eldar, Necrons and general mercs, such as Pirates.

In 40k, these lines do become blurred; as stated earlier, Biel-Tan Eldar seem to be working for both Chaos in purging worlds, but also Order in starving a Hive Fleet.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
An important aspect in the Imperium's hostility towards the Eldar is that most Eldar they encounter are raiders, corsairs, pirates and highly agressive and genocidal craftworlds like Biel-Tan. Most Imperials wouldn't bother taking the time to find out to what faction an Eldar belongs; better to shoot them right away and be safe.

Besides, the Eldar the IoM encounters ARE usually the hostile variety, be it Dark Eldar slave raiders, a craftworld purifying an old Eldar world or pirates attacking shipping. There's seldom that many witnesses to piece it together from, and Eldar is Eldar - advanced weapons, frightening masks, superfast vehicles and arcane artifacts unleashed on hapless defenders. And if the Eldar want to ally against a common threat I'm not sure any but the highest commanders can tell which Eldar faction is offering help either, unless the Eldar themself say who they are.

Otherwise yes, Eldar is one of the races the Imperium (high ups) prefer to live and let live with. The last time some fool decided to attack a Craftworld an entire Sector fleet was lost.

I think the general Imperial perception of Eldar is "The only good Eldar is a dead Eldar."

Spetulhu wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
An important aspect in the Imperium's hostility towards the Eldar is that most Eldar they encounter are raiders, corsairs, pirates and highly agressive and genocidal craftworlds like Biel-Tan. Most Imperials wouldn't bother taking the time to find out to what faction an Eldar belongs; better to shoot them right away and be safe.

Besides, the Eldar the IoM encounters ARE usually the hostile variety, be it Dark Eldar slave raiders, a craftworld purifying an old Eldar world or pirates attacking shipping. There's seldom that many witnesses to piece it together from, and Eldar is Eldar - advanced weapons, frightening masks, superfast vehicles and arcane artifacts unleashed on hapless defenders. And if the Eldar want to ally against a common threat I'm not sure any but the highest commanders can tell which Eldar faction is offering help either, unless the Eldar themself say who they are.

Otherwise yes, Eldar is one of the races the Imperium (high ups) prefer to live and let live with. The last time some fool decided to attack a Craftworld an entire Sector fleet was lost.

I feel this is important to understand; in a galaxy, your chances of finding a big ship are only slightly higher than a small one. Combined with the fact that small ones are actively attacking you, you're going to notice a bias.

"And the only thing better than a dead Eldar, is a dying one that tells yer where to find 'is mates."

Given that the Galaxy is a big place, the Imperium prefers its inhabitants to be belligerently racist / Humanist and a general belief that if you throw enough human bodies at it, it will eventually be killed / destroyed... I suspect that even IF a given authority knew the difference between CWE / DE, the reaction would be the same.

I seriously doubt it.

Besides higher rankings like everyone else has mentioned, I am sure the general population of the Imperium even struggles telling who is a renegade Space Marine and who is a Loyalist.

The Fallen and Cypher walks within the Imperium regularly right?

I currently struggle telling an Aussie from an American which is about the same difference as Eldar and Dark Eldar in appearance.


-Dert

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:
The Craftworld Eldar are fickle to start with, and their Dark cousins are outright terrifying.

Apparently one of the reasons the Imperium hates all Eldar so much is because they don't distinguish between Commorrites and Craftworlders. Is this portion mentioned in the fluff?

The Imperium doesn't hate Eldar, in fact they're not too bad because they're moderately humanoid and can be reasoned with (both Commorites and Eldar).
And, I assume it's quite easy to distinguish between the two, they have very different aesthetics and characteristics. I imagine it's akin to distinguishing Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines.

Actually it's been mentioned a couple of times that actually one of the things that causes Imperials to hate Eldar is exactly the fact that they are so similar to humans and yet so alien at the same time. While they may be humanoid, their movements, their speech, their proportions are all totally alien to humans. Looking into an Orks eyes man has no illusion that this thing is an enemy and should be killed, there is a simplicity in that to be valued. The eldar, almost look human and yet to stare into one's eyes, man would have no idea what it is thinking or plotting or feeling and that makes them sickening and deserving of hatred (from a xenophobic perspective that is).

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:
If you had to divide the races of 40k into two sides, I'd say it's:

SIDE A: DOMINATE THE INFERIOR
The Imperium of Man
The Craftworld Eldar
The Tau Empire
The Necron Dynasties

SIDE B: LETS BURN IT ALL DOWN
The Legions of Chaos
The Dark Eldar
The Orks
The Tyranids

I think it was the 13th Black Crusade global campaign that actually broke those up into the forces of order and forces of disorder (not necessarily "Good and Evil", though it was noted that the concept of order was a bit more suitable to benevolence and cooperation). Of course, the layman's terms would be "Lawful" and "Chaotic".

(Necrons, Dark Eldar, and Tyrannids didn't actively cooperate or ally with their sides but it was noted that their actions tended to benefit and lean towards order and chaos respectively)

I would put DE more on the side of law despite their actions.

They are smart enough to know that if the galaxy burns they cannot sustain themselves.

Also they still do come the aid of Craftworld Eldar when a Craftworld is in real danger.

Dark Eldar side with whoever benefits them. They'll just as easily watch the Craftworlds burn if it doesn't benefit them.

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Dark Eldar side with whoever benefits them. They'll just as easily watch the Craftworlds burn if it doesn't benefit them.

Not true, they have on several occasions intervered to protect a craftworld with no benefit to themselves.

Notable occasions include helping Iyanden against the tyrannids and another one who's name esacpes me against an ord WAAAGH.

Because they're both harmful; if they let Hive Fleets consume, there's less to plunder.