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right, i have been trying to work out a 1500 point list to play in a very casual setting
so far, it looks like this:

*Autarch – Shard of Anaris, Fusion Gun
10 Wraithblades – Ghostswords
Farseer – Singing Spear
Spiritseer
2x Warlocks – 2x Singing Spear
10 Dire Avengers – Exarch – Simmershield + Power weapon
*Wave Serpent - Twin Brightlance, Shurikan Cannon
*10 Guardians – Shurikan Cannon
*5 Rangers
5 Warp Spiders – Exarch
*1 Vyper – EML + Shurikan Cannon
*1 Warwalker – Brightlance + Eldar Missile Launcher
Wraithlord – 2xBrightlance, flamers, Ghostglaive 1560 (dont worry about it being 60+, as my only opponent is my brother, and he says its fine)
(things with a * next to them are bought and painted etc, but would leave them behind if highly advised to do so)

right, their only opponent will be tau (boo) which includes a riptide and two hammerheads, and then mainly just fire warrior spam with some pathfinders

the main idea of this list is to shoot his tanks with the BLs, while picking off his HQ with the rangers who do their infiltrate thing
the rest of the army moves up, with guardians + a warlock with conceal camping on objectives, the DA moving up to further objectives in the WS, the WL shoots tanks, possibly then charging into the riptide
the ww + vyper harass the fire warriors and his other littler people, providing cover for the Autarch + WB who charge any tau left and cut them down like fiends
the farseer and his pals blow the heads off any tau who try and outflank (and the spiritseer makes the WBs scoring)
the warp spiders pop up behind his gun line and start blasting away, making a big messy distraction that he will need to deal with

any help would be dandy, cheers

Welcome to dakka dakka!
As for your list, well...its illigal.
3 hqs isnt allowed. Nor is it advised. Drop autarch, he doesnt add very much. Farseer and spirit seer do though.
Drop one warlock for sure, as it has no squad to join.
Wave serpent is great, but make sure to give it scatter lasers and i strongly recomend holo feilds. Unload the sheild, scatters, and shuiken cannons for 7 s6 shots, D6+1 shots that ignore cover that are all Twin Linked!
War spiders i would recomend dropping exarch for another body in the squad.
Vyper drop EML as it is far to cost expensive for what it does. In fact i would drop vyper all together as it really isnt doing anything for the list.
Same with war walker. Drop it,, or add another memeber to the squad. You need at least 2 war walkers to be effective. Also Thats a bad comba of weapons, keep it X2 scatter laser or X2 Bright Lances.

Dont confuse the rangers purpose. They do next to no damage so using them for that is a waste. There purpose is to score objectives. Dont eb scared to go to ground on an objective for 2+ cover.

First thing I can see is that you have 3HQs. If that's ok for your game then fine, but just letting you know it doesn't quite follow the FOC!

As for the rest it looks pretty solid. I would probably try and fit another Wave Serpent in for the Guardians just for target saturation, maybe by dropping the Viper (too easy to take out IMO) and the Autarch. I would be rolling Telepathy for that Farseer and Spiritseer to try and get Invisibility on the Wraithguard. Might as well make the Tau work for their Ignores Cover!

All in all it looks like a fun list. You've got some tough units running at the enemy, so try to put pressure on his gun lines. You don't ever really get 'too close' to a Tau force!

yeah, the 3 HQs is a in house rule , but i did play with the idea of dropping the autarch and the vyper (i only have the vyper as it came in the battle force)
so swap the vyper for a second warwalker (both with dual BL - im very scared of his two hammer heads), and drop the autarch and 1 warlock for a 2nd wave serpent?

Sounds great

Thank you both very much


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So this is the revised list,
Farseer – Singing Spear
Spiritseer
10 Wraithblades – Ghostswords
10 Dire Avengers – Exarch – Simmershield + Power weapon
*Wave Serpent - Twin Brightlance, Shurikan Cannon, Holofields
*10 Guardians – Shurikan Cannon
Warlock – Singing Spear
Wave Serpent - Twin Brightlance, Shurikan Cannon, Holofields
*5 Rangers
6 Warp Spiders
*2 Warwalkers – 2x Brightlance
Wraithlord – 2xBrightlance, flamers, Ghostglaive

I did have a few thoughts while working out the points
- instead of the 2nd WS and extra Warp Spider, get a 2nd WL
and with the doubled up weapons on the WW + WL, are they twinlinked or could i effectively fire both?

Thanks

#1 you forgot to switch bright lance on wave serpent to scatter laser. Dont worry, its a trap that many fall into, but wave serpents are actually SO much better with scatter lasers. Also Dont get another wraithlord. Wave serpent (if it has scatter laser) is much much better than a wraith lord. You count as having 2 of the same weapon, there not twin linked

Oh yeah, i'll change that
Thank you for all your help

Nevereverevereverever deploy guardians against the Tau. It just seems cruel to the poor Guardians. If the opponent wants them gone, he barely has to even think about it and you've handed him first blood; And Cover doesn't save them from the Markerlights. Trust me, I speak from lots of experience...

If you want to knock out those pesky Hammerheads, take a Fire Prism. That Lance is the bad day of all things with an AV. But an absolute must is holofields, and if possible a Ghostwalk Matrix for coverparking 3++. Dump A serpent for this, it's a worthwhile investment.

You're definitely using the Serpents wrong. Upgrade them like Mr. NinjaFireDragon suggested and use them to target pathfinders. Loss of Markerlights is a devastating blow to the gun line. Kill them, win the game.

This sounds insane I know, BUT, get more Rangers. They hold objectives like no one else and will end that Riptide. Absolute must against a Riptide totting Tau list. I'd suggest 10.

Nevereverevereverever take a War Walker against the Tau. Same problem as Guardians. Pulse Weapons turn them into nothing but confetti and tears.

Tactics note, I'd hide the Foot Slogging Scary Melee unit until the riptide is dead. They're hard to kill, but not that hard and the Tau don't like things holding swords. Especially a scary looking pair of swords.

Well, I agree with nearly everything you say regarding what the tau will do to him, but disagree with what you say he should do to the tau.
Fire prisms actually arnt great anti tank fyi. 3+ to glance or pen, half chance of penning? with the 3+ to hit, you have about a 1/3 chance of doing anything to a hammer head, not counting cover. Rangers dont hurt riptides very well. They cause on average .7 wounds (not even one total) and that is also not counting cover.
Your right that tau just destroy guardians and war walkers though, but the guardians are in a serpent, and hopefully the war walkers wont be targeted.

The problem i found with the rangers is that they are fine for camping on an objective, but do bugger all, especially against the riptide
i do manage to kill most of his armour with the BL, so ditching stuff for a prism seems unneeded?
and if i ditch the WWs, i'll end up loosing a lot of anti tank stuff that can shoot quite far (i did think about taking fire dragons, but their range is dreadful)
also, quite proud of myself for beating his riptide to death with 5 DA the other day

Oh did you already do your game?

Ermm, with the few units i have now but we shall have quite regular games a few times a week

You're expecting 4 outflanking bright lances to be ignored? A kill point so fragile that literally EVERYTHING the Tau field can hurt it without seriously bothering? Really?

I might just be the luckiest roller alive, but I waste Riptides with Rangers all day long. So I'll throw that one out because it apparently didn't help you.

However, I'm going to say again, Fire Prism>War Walkers. War Walkers cost more, have less range, are more fragile than wet paper, and don't kill tanks as well. AP:1 means if you penn, you've got a 1/2 chance of ending it right there. You slap fortune on a Fire Prism, it'll almost always hit (better than BS 5 statistically), not struggle to glance or penn (better than a railgun vs AV 14) and then outright dead a tank half the time. All the while not withering to the basic infantry of your opponent.

I expect 4 bright lances that stay behind the rest of my army to be ignored, especially when there is 10 wraith guard, 2 wave serpents, and warp spiders which are all higher target priority for them.
Also the war walkers are SO much better at killing tanks its not even funny.

Against an army already stated to have 2 Av 13 vehicles? He's armor heavy, and will play to that strength if he's got two brain cells to rub together. I.e. you should be expecting anything with some sort of armor busting will be targeted immediately, If you're starting them on the field especially. And even if they are 'SO much better' that 'Its not even funny.' it won't matter when they're all dead, and die they will. The Fire Prism is effective because it's DURABLE. I get off more shots and kill more tanks in the long run because I make it past turn two.

He does have a habit of trying to kill my guardians...
An idea; instead of the 2nd WS, drop it for a prism - guardians go back to shielding my footsloggers while shooting back, or camping on objectives, and the twin BL gets changed for a prism cannon? with holo stuff and that

If you wanna do that, give them more than a Shuriken Cannon as their weapon; your pick on what you think you need, but whatever it is needs range. (If he takes Crisis Suits, Bright Lance is cheap S: 8 for that scrumptious ID.)

Tactics note, hide them until pathfinders are dead. They're ok when they have cover saves, but confetti otherwise. Any Tau Player that's figured this out will scoop First Blood every game.

Im leaning towards a SL; and if i hit with that, will it make the guardian's SCat twin linked + assault 2 with the laser lock?

Sadly no. The Laser Lock only affects the model firing, not the team he is in, so no TL Guardians.

For shame :( that would have made a nice dent in his FW squads (once i got in range)

 Will1541 wrote:
Against an army already stated to have 2 Av 13 vehicles? He's armor heavy, and will play to that strength if he's got two brain cells to rub together. I.e. you should be expecting anything with some sort of armor busting will be targeted immediately, If you're starting them on the field especially. And even if they are 'SO much better' that 'Its not even funny.' it won't matter when they're all dead, and die they will. The Fire Prism is effective because it's DURABLE. I get off more shots and kill more tanks in the long run because I make it past turn two.

Ok well if you want survivable over damage output take another wave serpent. Also much better than fire prism. Can tank hunt side armor like a boss, and is "more" survivable. Fire prism just has such low damage output compared to so many other models that I just find it.... underwhelming.

What about the forge world warp hunter? I have just seen the model and it looks pretty tasty? but i dunno if its any good

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Will1541 wrote:
Against an army already stated to have 2 Av 13 vehicles? He's armor heavy, and will play to that strength if he's got two brain cells to rub together. I.e. you should be expecting anything with some sort of armor busting will be targeted immediately, If you're starting them on the field especially. And even if they are 'SO much better' that 'Its not even funny.' it won't matter when they're all dead, and die they will. The Fire Prism is effective because it's DURABLE. I get off more shots and kill more tanks in the long run because I make it past turn two.

Ok well if you want survivable over damage output take another wave serpent. Also much better than fire prism. Can tank hunt side armor like a boss, and is "more" survivable. Fire prism just has such low damage output compared to so many other models that I just find it.... underwhelming.

Nah, on par perhaps but definitely not better. The Spam Serpent is excellent against most things with a toughness value and all lower AV vehicles, but don't hold a candle to Hammerheads AV 13 with mobility on par with yours. Not to bash the Serpent, as it is debateably the best at what it does, but always take a fire prism or two to counteract their only pitfall of high AV.

I always take a WK. Much better overall for a Serpent spam than two Fire Prisms as it offers vital CC element and board control Prisms could never match. But looking at purely killing AV13+, Prisms are decent. War Walkers, however, are more expensice, but better. And they're not as flismy as most people believe, due to a number of defensive mechanisms beyond their paperžthin AV10.

 Will1541 wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Will1541 wrote:
Against an army already stated to have 2 Av 13 vehicles? He's armor heavy, and will play to that strength if he's got two brain cells to rub together. I.e. you should be expecting anything with some sort of armor busting will be targeted immediately, If you're starting them on the field especially. And even if they are 'SO much better' that 'Its not even funny.' it won't matter when they're all dead, and die they will. The Fire Prism is effective because it's DURABLE. I get off more shots and kill more tanks in the long run because I make it past turn two.

Ok well if you want survivable over damage output take another wave serpent. Also much better than fire prism. Can tank hunt side armor like a boss, and is "more" survivable. Fire prism just has such low damage output compared to so many other models that I just find it.... underwhelming.

Nah, on par perhaps but definitely not better. The Spam Serpent is excellent against most things with a toughness value and all lower AV vehicles, but don't hold a candle to Hammerheads AV 13 with mobility on par with yours. Not to bash the Serpent, as it is debateably the best at what it does, but always take a fire prism or two to counteract their only pitfall of high AV.

Uh i would argue. With 2 (or 3) serpents you can put them on opposite sides of deployment. Theres no way they can protect both tanks side armor and then the serpent is actually much better, not just on par. 7 S6 hits, cause one glance. 4.5 (average) S7 hits cause 1-2 more glances or pens.
Fire prism has a 1/3 chance of glancing or penning.

@OP, did we answer your question? Because if so, I'll start a new thread for this rather than continue to fill your post with this debate.

@Araenion the WK, although a very nice model, seems to be a really overpriced WL with a few bits beefed up, which is a shame, as i do like the model itself
And the debate of WS vs FP - in theory, one shot could destroy the HH, and the more powerful gun is the prism one, and once the HHs are dead, it would then have good anti infantry capabilities as it can do the large blast shot - Just thinking of multiple uses

A guided FP has a greater chance of killing any tank of AV12> while serpent kills tanks AV12<. As for the WK its a beast, twice as hard to kill as a WL in addition to being S10 movement 12" ignoring terrain, 2 S10 Ap2 guns at range 36" it gets turn 2 assaults easily and in addition acts as the perfect fire magnet. If anything I would recommend picking it up for painting.

 Araenion wrote:
I always take a WK. Much better overall for a Serpent spam than two Fire Prisms as it offers vital CC element and board control Prisms could never match. But looking at purely killing AV13+, Prisms are decent. War Walkers, however, are more expensice, but better. And they're not as flismy as most people believe, due to a number of defensive mechanisms beyond their paperžthin AV10.

I stopped fielding them when 420 points got swept off the table in one turn to 120 points of fire warriors with a fireblade. Too expensive and fragile for my liking, even with all the cool survival toys they have, especially against the Tau player I fight.