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In the yee olden days, daemons used to be part of the Chaos Space Marine Codex. After all, they often work together. Though some Chaos Space Marines shun them (ie the Night Lords), they're used enough to be worth being part of the same book.

Then someone at GW came up with a brilliant idea. Many people had collected daemons for their Chaos Space Marine armies. So, if GW split them up, it would result in players...

A) Buying the Daemons Codex to avoid wasting all of the Daemon models they got

B) Buying more Chaos Space Marines, to make up for the missing Daemons in their army

C) Buying more Daemons, to make up for the fact that originally the Daemons weren't a whole army on their own

D) Sobbing hysterically

E) Being extremely happy that they just got two armies instead of one, with lots and lots of new units, options and opportunities for conversions.

F) Enjoying orgasm after orgasm reading the background section of the Chaos Daemons. An expansion on the ten years old previously established stuff by Alessio Cavatore.

G) Laughing maniacally when beholding the glory of Chaos

I want them to do it again. I would be happy if they give us a Codex: LATD, a proper Codex: World Eaters or a Codex: Word Bearers. I really don´t get how people get upset when their army gets an expansion. I get pissed off when I get less content in each release (Tyranids, Sisters, Templars, arguably the last Daemon Codex).

I must admit however that they did it in a suboptimal (actually, awful) way. But the concept is still there: it is an expansion. Suddenly I had two armies instead of one. It was sloppy and didn´t work well for a while, but it was a step (imho, of course) in the right direction. If they had kept the Legions rules and expanded the Eye of Terror LATD codex I would have been happy.

EDIT EDIT EDIT
IMPORTANT NEWS
http://natfka.blogspot.com.es/2014/04/ia13-war-machines-of-lost-and-damned.html
Bwahahahaha!
Forgeworld is what GW should be. And yes I know they are the same company. Doesn´t matter. First Adeptus Mechanicus and now LATD! Excellent.

Some stuff:

More (not yet confirmed) goodies: IW & Dark Mech.

MarsNZ wrote:

 KorPhaeron77 wrote:
he "Legions" of old don't exist, Abaddon and his like have a handul of Traitor marines but billions of corrupted humans, mutants and outcasts fighting for them.

Wrong.

The BL supplement says the BL now outnumber the other legions combined. I'd say that's quite a few more traitors than 'a handful', they may even outnumber loyal marines at this point.

It's not wrong, the other Legions have fractured into Warbands so it is hardly surprising that the Black Legion outnumber them. A handful is a pretty good term when comparing a few hundred thousand to the trillions of people that live in the galaxy. In Soul Hunter the Black Legion were filling their ships with thousands of humans from a prison colony that they "liberated." Even the Exhalted's Warband which numbered less than 50 Marines had thousands of slaves on board their ship.

I very much doubt that the Black Legion outnumbers the million or so Codex Marines. The Traitors have an inferior recruitment process to replace their numbers, have to contend with gene seed corruption, nearly 10 thousand years of in fighting and not to mention the fact that they were shattered when they fled to the eye in the first place. I have no doubt that the Black Legion are formidable, and they are certainly more powerful than the other broken legions, but I sincerely doubt they outnumber the loyalists with Marines.

It's not wrong, the other Legions have fractured into Warbands so it is hardly surprising that the Black Legion outnumber them.

WRONG!

This is touted so much but it simply isn't true.

But there are only a few legions that are completely fractured into Warbands, and that is World Eaters and Emperor's children, due to Kharn's rage and rampage, along with possibly the Night Lords, though that'd imply they were unified beforehand.

Word Bearers maintain a unified force in their 'hosts', they've got bands of terminators in the hundreds and a pretty good recruitment rate.

Iron Warriors have a Chapter Like structure, although their recruitment rate is spotty, though with that...Method they used they had gained plenty into their forces.

Alpha Legion is unified, but nobody knows their strength cause..Alpha legion and all.

Death Guard is unified, but somewhat splintered between Typhus Renegades, and Mortarians Homeworld

Thousand Sons are unified at their homeworld, but splintered between Ahriman and Magnus, however their numbers were low even in Legion days and after the Slaughter only numbered nearly two chapters, which was likely worsened by Ahriman's leaving.

Then you have new Renegades like Red Corsairs, whose numbers have grown into one of the strongest chaos forces in the area as a result of Hurons words gathering space marines into his group from even 'loyal' founding legions like Space Wolves.

There are warbands likely split from each of these with those that disagree with their methods or want to go their own path, but then again, they may still rank from tens to hundreds of Chaos marines and forces, thus making them a slight equivalent to second founding chapters, just in a far different method

 KorPhaeron77 wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:

 KorPhaeron77 wrote:
he "Legions" of old don't exist, Abaddon and his like have a handul of Traitor marines but billions of corrupted humans, mutants and outcasts fighting for them.

Wrong.

The BL supplement says the BL now outnumber the other legions combined. I'd say that's quite a few more traitors than 'a handful', they may even outnumber loyal marines at this point.

It's not wrong, the other Legions have fractured into Warbands so it is hardly surprising that the Black Legion outnumber them. A handful is a pretty good term when comparing a few hundred thousand to the trillions of people that live in the galaxy. In Soul Hunter the Black Legion were filling their ships with thousands of humans from a prison colony that they "liberated." Even the Exhalted's Warband which numbered less than 50 Marines had thousands of slaves on board their ship.

I very much doubt that the Black Legion outnumbers the million or so Codex Marines. The Traitors have an inferior recruitment process to replace their numbers, have to contend with gene seed corruption, nearly 10 thousand years of in fighting and not to mention the fact that they were shattered when they fled to the eye in the first place. I have no doubt that the Black Legion are formidable, and they are certainly more powerful than the other broken legions, but I sincerely doubt they outnumber the loyalists with Marines.

As Zeb said, not all of the Legions are splintered into Warbands.

The Word bearers are the most prominent example of this.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

It's not wrong, the other Legions have fractured into Warbands so it is hardly surprising that the Black Legion outnumber them.

WRONG!

This is touted so much but it simply isn't true.

But there are only a few legions that are completely fractured into Warbands, and that is World Eaters and Emperor's children, due to Kharn's rage and rampage, along with possibly the Night Lords, though that'd imply they were unified beforehand.

Word Bearers maintain a unified force in their 'hosts', they've got bands of terminators in the hundreds and a pretty good recruitment rate.

Iron Warriors have a Chapter Like structure, although their recruitment rate is spotty, though with that...Method they used they had gained plenty into their forces.

Alpha Legion is unified, but nobody knows their strength cause..Alpha legion and all.

Death Guard is unified, but somewhat splintered between Typhus Renegades, and Mortarians Homeworld

Thousand Sons are unified at their homeworld, but splintered between Ahriman and Magnus, however their numbers were low even in Legion days and after the Slaughter only numbered nearly two chapters, which was likely worsened by Ahriman's leaving.

Then you have new Renegades like Red Corsairs, whose numbers have grown into one of the strongest chaos forces in the area as a result of Hurons words gathering space marines into his group from even 'loyal' founding legions like Space Wolves.

There are warbands likely split from each of these with those that disagree with their methods or want to go their own path, but then again, they may still rank from tens to hundreds of Chaos marines and forces, thus making them a slight equivalent to second founding chapters, just in a far different method

Word Bearers allege to be unified in that they all still wear the Legion colours or and none have different names, but they are split into warbands none the less. They have no leading figure such as Abaddon. They have Erebus and Kor Phaeron who are constantly scheming against each other. Plus they have the dark council who are all constantly undermining them. When are the only noted times of the Legion deploying in force? The Black Crusades, under Abaddon, not Kor and not Erebus. No one leader commands the legion, to that end, they are Warbands.

The rest you seem to be basing on absolutely nothing, certainly not any of the sources I have read.

The Nightlords are your most glaring error; "might be, they were unified for about 2 centuries after the Heresy, then they immediately scrambled over each other to claim power, the 1st company all split and refused to fight as one anymore. They broke into warbands and went their separate ways and then the few that remained were shattered by the Ultramarines at Tsagualsa. It is implied in Void Stalker that they will unite under Decimus but that is a very recent development and again is based on the following Abbadon's lead in the 13th Crusade.

The Thousand Son's are scattered all over the place, different sorcerers all off chasing their own agenda's there was already a separate warband detailed in the Ahriman audiobook.

The Iron Warriors hate each other. In The Ultramarines books, the Iron Warriors spend the whole of one book annihilating each other. They may have "chapter like structure" but each one owes allegiance to no one but it's own leader. Perturabo may be alive but he certainly doesn't lead them. Again, no central figure. United in name alone, same as all the other Legions.

Alpha Legion, probably more divided than any other. Anyone who claims to know what they are doing is lying because we literally have no idea. But even during the Heresy they were launching attacks against themselves. It's implied in the HH series that the twin Primarchs had very different agendas. They've also been declared wiped out 3 times by the Imperium. The only survive because they operate in cells with no central command structure.

And the Death Guard are also split up, maybe not shattered into pieces like the World Eaters and Emperor's Children. But not all of them follow Typhus and Mortarion, hence why they, like the others have been known to defect to the Black Legion (which incidentally is another reason the BL is the strongest.

Talos summed it up in the Nightlords series when he said something along the lines of "In that regard Abaddon is singular, he reforged his Legion, gave them a purpose, a meaningful war to fight"

As for the Red Corsairs, yes they are probably the second biggest force after the black legion. I didn't include them though as they are not a Legion. But the point still stands, Huron's fleet is mostly made up of pirate and renegades, with the Astartes at the core. Even best case scenario there maybe a million traitor marines to start with, but given losses sustained in the Heresy, the Scouring and then 10,000 years of infighting, there is no way that number will have increased past it's original size. Therefore, my original point is still valid; compared to the teeming hordes of traitor guard, Heretics and mutants, the Chaos marines make up a handful of the Chaos forces. I never said that that handful wasn't a mailed fist to the face, but they are still the minority.

This thread has been very informative.