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So with the 7th edition coming out and some of the rumors Ive been hearing and seeing online, and with the Imperial Knights being released as a standard codex, do you think supper heavy's will be a standard in a normal 40k game. (with out escalation or anything)

If so I would like it just for the fact that turn 1 will have carnage from the word go. Granted I can see the negatives with it, but it doesn't bother me all that much.
   
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USA

They aren't going to be standard in my local meta anytime soon. We do have a guy who owns one, but he hasn't been able to get it into a kill team tournament yet. That is gonna be a rough day though when he figures out how.

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On the Internet

No, only because the majority of what I've seen that is treated as "standard" are the games that reflect what is played competitively. Won't stop people from playing them (especially the Knight) but it does keep them from popping up constantly.

And anyone who drops a Lord of War or Knight on the table without warning needs a good bricking. Using a 100% natural brick. I don't care if they want to play something like that, I just need to ability to either field a Lord of War of my own to match, or make sure I actually have the models necessary to not get steam rolled and make it a waste of everyone's time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Saevus wrote:
They aren't going to be standard in my local meta anytime soon. We do have a guy who owns one, but he hasn't been able to get it into a kill team tournament yet. That is gonna be a rough day though when he figures out how.

Good luck with the rules pretty much banning vehicles with armor values over a certain amount (I think the combined value of the three facings can't be more than 22) and the model needing to be under 200 points pretty much prevents that from happening.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/03 03:55:26


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






They already are "standard", because Escalation is part of the standard game. Refusing to play against it is no different than refusing to play against orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
And anyone who drops a Lord of War or Knight on the table without warning needs a good bricking.


You have warning. GW said "LoW are now legal".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/03 04:05:15


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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New Zealand

Things are as legal as the people who organize the game say they are.

Dont worry too much as most super heavies suck anyways. My malcador defender does more by blowing up near an enemy than it does killing.

Like everything else in 40K, use in moderation and be mindful of your opponent and it wont change the game much.

On topic though yes I would say super heavies are now standard. Its pretty safe to assume that if there is a model for anything 40k, its standard now.

   
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On the Internet

 Peregrine wrote:
They already are "standard", because Escalation is part of the standard game. Refusing to play against it is no different than refusing to play against orks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
And anyone who drops a Lord of War or Knight on the table without warning needs a good bricking.


You have warning. GW said "LoW are now legal".

Right and I've got a brick on it that says "Spirit of the Game". You know, that little paragraph everyone ignores at the front of the rulebook that talks about how the game should be played in a way that is fun for -both- players? The same one that allows you to house rule and homebrew because the core rules are only a framework for an enjoyable experience? That one? Yeah, that's why you should be slapping LoW on the table without at least a warning to your opponent.

I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be legal, I'm arguing that acting like a tosspot and not giving your opponent any warning you're bring them is the most dickish thing you can do in the game (right now).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/03 04:22:34


 
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
They already are "standard", because Escalation is part of the standard game. Refusing to play against it is no different than refusing to play against orks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
And anyone who drops a Lord of War or Knight on the table without warning needs a good bricking.


You have warning. GW said "LoW are now legal".

Right and I've got a brick on it that says "Spirit of the Game". I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be illegal, I'm arguing that acting like a tosspot and not giving your opponent any warning you're bring them is the most dickish thing you can do in the game (right now).


Being angry when someone brings a model that is allowed is in poor taste. Just add it to the list of things you need to be able to deal with when making your list.

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 slk28850 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
They already are "standard", because Escalation is part of the standard game. Refusing to play against it is no different than refusing to play against orks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
And anyone who drops a Lord of War or Knight on the table without warning needs a good bricking.


You have warning. GW said "LoW are now legal".

Right and I've got a brick on it that says "Spirit of the Game". I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be illegal, I'm arguing that acting like a tosspot and not giving your opponent any warning you're bring them is the most dickish thing you can do in the game (right now).


Being angry when someone brings a model that is allowed is in poor taste. Just add it to the list of things you need to be able to deal with when making your list.


Your opponent should know of all the books you plan on using and why. This avoids any surprises and informs the opponent what kind of game to expect. So If you then say im using imperial armour 438, they will ask why and you say because I plan on using this.

Just like you say which army you plan on using, so too should you say which special or out of the ordinary units you will be using.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/03 04:26:12


 
   
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On the Internet

 slk28850 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
They already are "standard", because Escalation is part of the standard game. Refusing to play against it is no different than refusing to play against orks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
And anyone who drops a Lord of War or Knight on the table without warning needs a good bricking.


You have warning. GW said "LoW are now legal".

Right and I've got a brick on it that says "Spirit of the Game". I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be illegal, I'm arguing that acting like a tosspot and not giving your opponent any warning you're bring them is the most dickish thing you can do in the game (right now).


Being angry when someone brings a model that is allowed is in poor taste. Just add it to the list of things you need to be able to deal with when making your list.

You do understand that some armies can't properly make "Take all Comers" lists anymore, right? Sure it's fine to say that if they play Tau or Eldar but they play Orks, or Nids you might as well be kicking them in the crotch and then blaming them for not wearing a cup just in case you decided to do that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/03 04:26:37


 
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
 slk28850 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
They already are "standard", because Escalation is part of the standard game. Refusing to play against it is no different than refusing to play against orks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
And anyone who drops a Lord of War or Knight on the table without warning needs a good bricking.


You have warning. GW said "LoW are now legal".

Right and I've got a brick on it that says "Spirit of the Game". I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be illegal, I'm arguing that acting like a tosspot and not giving your opponent any warning you're bring them is the most dickish thing you can do in the game (right now).


Being angry when someone brings a model that is allowed is in poor taste. Just add it to the list of things you need to be able to deal with when making your list.

You do understand that some armies can't properly make "Take all Comers" lists anymore, right? Sure it's fine to say that if they play Tau or Eldar but they play Orks, or Nids you might as well be kicking them in the crotch and then blaming them for not wearing a cup just in case you decided to do that.


It's funny that people always bring up nids in these discussions. Nids can make some of the best flyer heavy lists in the game, which most LoW can't even touch.
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
 slk28850 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
They already are "standard", because Escalation is part of the standard game. Refusing to play against it is no different than refusing to play against orks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
And anyone who drops a Lord of War or Knight on the table without warning needs a good bricking.


You have warning. GW said "LoW are now legal".

Right and I've got a brick on it that says "Spirit of the Game". I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be illegal, I'm arguing that acting like a tosspot and not giving your opponent any warning you're bring them is the most dickish thing you can do in the game (right now).


Being angry when someone brings a model that is allowed is in poor taste. Just add it to the list of things you need to be able to deal with when making your list.

You do understand that some armies can't properly make "Take all Comers" lists anymore, right? Sure it's fine to say that if they play Tau or Eldar but they play Orks, or Nids you might as well be kicking them in the crotch and then blaming them for not wearing a cup just in case you decided to do that.


I LoL'd at that last statement.

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On the Internet

themadlbb wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 slk28850 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
They already are "standard", because Escalation is part of the standard game. Refusing to play against it is no different than refusing to play against orks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
And anyone who drops a Lord of War or Knight on the table without warning needs a good bricking.


You have warning. GW said "LoW are now legal".

Right and I've got a brick on it that says "Spirit of the Game". I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be illegal, I'm arguing that acting like a tosspot and not giving your opponent any warning you're bring them is the most dickish thing you can do in the game (right now).


Being angry when someone brings a model that is allowed is in poor taste. Just add it to the list of things you need to be able to deal with when making your list.

You do understand that some armies can't properly make "Take all Comers" lists anymore, right? Sure it's fine to say that if they play Tau or Eldar but they play Orks, or Nids you might as well be kicking them in the crotch and then blaming them for not wearing a cup just in case you decided to do that.


It's funny that people always bring up nids in these discussions. Nids can make some of the best flyer heavy lists in the game, which most LoW can't even touch.

Unless they took something like a Vulcan Megabolter.

And just because the Nids are flying doesn't mean they can do anything to the LoW (I think the Crone has the best chance at it but who brings 2-3 Crones to every game "just in case"?). A fair number of LoW have pretty good armour values, and would be supported by a full army, which could help ground those Nids if need be.
   
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Douglas Bader






 ClockworkZion wrote:
Yeah, that's why you should be slapping LoW on the table without at least a warning to your opponent.


Again, you were warned. LoW are part of the game now. It's just like bringing sufficient AA to deal with flyers now that they're part of the standard game, you know the threat is out there and you have to decide how much, if any, effort you want to put into countering it.

I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be legal, I'm arguing that acting like a tosspot and not giving your opponent any warning you're bring them is the most dickish thing you can do in the game (right now).


And that is completely false. Facing a Malcador or even a Baneblade without "warning" is going to be easier than facing screamerstar/Riptide spam/etc without your opponent telling you their list and letting you tailor to beat it.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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Emathews2715 wrote:
So with the 7th edition coming out and some of the rumors Ive been hearing and seeing online, and with the Imperial Knights being released as a standard codex, do you think supper heavy's will be a standard in a normal 40k game. (with out escalation or anything)

If so I would like it just for the fact that turn 1 will have carnage from the word go. Granted I can see the negatives with it, but it doesn't bother me all that much.
read the current wd, chambers states 40k games are going to get bigger as time goes by....

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On the Internet

 Peregrine wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Yeah, that's why you should be slapping LoW on the table without at least a warning to your opponent.


Again, you were warned. LoW are part of the game now. It's just like bringing sufficient AA to deal with flyers now that they're part of the standard game, you know the threat is out there and you have to decide how much, if any, effort you want to put into countering it.

Right, like I was "warned" that a person would drop a Triptide list with Eldar accompaniment. Just because it's an option in the game doesn't mean you should have to be constantly on guard against it. It's a game, some level of respect and communication from the other person should be warranted.

 Peregrine wrote:
I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be legal, I'm arguing that acting like a tosspot and not giving your opponent any warning you're bring them is the most dickish thing you can do in the game (right now).


And that is completely false. Facing a Malcador or even a Baneblade without "warning" is going to be easier than facing screamerstar/Riptide spam/etc without your opponent telling you their list and letting you tailor to beat it.

Those tanks? Sure. A god-dang Reaver Titan or a Reverant with my Sisters army? Not a fuggin' chance I'd even get close enough to smack it with a melta, much less a melta-bomb before I was nuked off the board.

There a large difference between the attitudes of: "I want to bring a hard list" and "I want to bring the hardest, cheesiest thing I can without warning you and crush your skull with it and then dance on your dessicated corpse". I'm fine with the first one, it's the second one that puts me right off. You want a challenging game? Sure, I'll bring the best I can and we'll have a go. You want to ROFLSTOMP my army back into the materials it was made out of for your amusement because you can't be curtious enough to let me know that this wasn't going to be the kind of game that WASN'T going to have a Reverent Titan in it? Well then, I may as well play because the first two turns are going to be me picking models back up and then shaking your hand and it's a waste of everyone's time.

Frankly I'm all for options, but I think there needs to be a line in how they're used. And anytime someone starts hammering the "I WIN" button so hard it's threatening to break that line has been crossed. And honestly I firmly believe that it's crossed everytime someone decides to not give their opponent a fair warning that they're slapping a Super Heavy down on the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hell, you know what else talking you your opponent like a decent human being instead of something to crush and move on might do? Result in them bringing their LoW and the two of you duking it out Pacific Rim style.

But I guess giant robot/monster fights have do be done "on accident" instead of intentionally in this day and age for some reason.

Communication is dead. Yippee.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/03 05:10:08


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 ClockworkZion wrote:
Right, like I was "warned" that a person would drop a Triptide list with Eldar accompaniment.


Exactly. You know that those things exist, and that's your warning. Whether or not you choose to play against a list that is much more powerful than your own is an entirely separate question, and not one that is specific to superheavies. What matters is the overall strength of the list, not whether it gets that strength through an overpowered superheavy or just overpowered conventional units.

And honestly I firmly believe that it's crossed everytime someone decides to not give their opponent a fair warning that they're slapping a Super Heavy down on the board.


And, again, fair warning has been given: superheavies exist and can be used.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
They already are "standard", because Escalation is part of the standard game. Refusing to play against it is no different than refusing to play against orks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
And anyone who drops a Lord of War or Knight on the table without warning needs a good bricking.


You have warning. GW said "LoW are now legal".

Right and I've got a brick on it that says "Spirit of the Game". You know, that little paragraph everyone ignores at the front of the rulebook that talks about how the game should be played in a way that is fun for -both- players? The same one that allows you to house rule and homebrew because the core rules are only a framework for an enjoyable experience? That one? Yeah, that's why you should be slapping LoW on the table without at least a warning to your opponent.

I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be legal, I'm arguing that acting like a tosspot and not giving your opponent any warning you're bring them is the most dickish thing you can do in the game (right now).


My sisters are unable to deal with land raiders may I borrow your hysteria fueled brick?
By the way the knights aren't as strong as some seem to think nor are they lord of war.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/03 05:30:22


   
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Peregrine, I equate that to be a "fair warning" as much as I equate you having legs being a warning that you plan on kicking me in the crotch.

There is a line between "being prepared" for things and "maintaining a state of paranoid hyper-vigilance" for things. The first is common sense, the second is a sign that you are either suffering from paranoia, or PTSD. And frankly, from what I gather from your posts what you're proposing is we all wear tin foil hats and toss common deceny to the wolves because we've all been "warned".

I'm sorry, but I just can not agree. For starters, I look awful in tinfoil hats, and secondly I just can't agree with the idea that players don't treat each other like reasonable human beings and just take their own enjoyment and place it so much higher on their priorities list than their opponents that their opponent might as well not be there.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how a game can be "fun" when people do that to each other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 n0t_u wrote:
My sisters are unable to deal with land raiders may I borrow your hysteria fueled brick?

No, because it's not real. I was being fairly sarcastic and a little angry more than hysterical. And Sisters can deal with -a- Land Raider or two reasonably well (Dominons with 4 Meltas, possible in a TL-Multi Melta Immolator for good measure) it's usually what's inside the Land Raiders that causes me the most issues, especially since GW basically nerfed Repentia back to the stone age.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/03 05:32:08


 
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
There is a line between "being prepared" for things and "maintaining a state of paranoid hyper-vigilance" for things.


It's only "paranoid hyper-vigilance" if you start from a ridiculous assumption that superheavies aren't part of the normal game and you will never see them without fair warning. In the real game, as published by GW, preparing for superheavies is no more paranoid than preparing for flyers or preparing for MCs.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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GW's growth strategy is clear. They aim to increase sales by introducing new categories of units for people to buy.

In 6th edition we have seen the rules rewritten to support fortifications, aircraft and super-heavy vehicles as parts of standard, sub-2,000 point games.

The codexes are being re-organised to encourage players to buy more rulebooks in physical and digital formats to "complete" their army.

For example, IG players may need to buy their core codex plus Tempestus Milites codex plus Imperial Knights codex plus dataslates to field the entire army they want.

I expect over the course of the next few years, GW to introduce similar super-heavy models, sub-factions and accompanying models for all the armies.

As long as these new things are options, the game can be played at whatever level you want, and it's good for everyone. If you want big games, you can play big games. If you want fortifications, you can play fortifications.

The thing is that GW need to try and get all this new stuff into every player's hands, so they have written the rules in a way that encourages people to start using all this extra stuff as standard units for any pick-up game.

There are various issues with that, however the core point remains that GW's objective is to sell more books and model kits within 40K (rather than by developing different games). Therefore it is inevitable that super-heavies will become "standard", and there will be a danger of friction between players who like or don't like that development.

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 Peregrine wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
There is a line between "being prepared" for things and "maintaining a state of paranoid hyper-vigilance" for things.


It's only "paranoid hyper-vigilance" if you start from a ridiculous assumption that superheavies aren't part of the normal game and you will never see them without fair warning. In the real game, as published by GW, preparing for superheavies is no more paranoid than preparing for flyers or preparing for MCs.

How many armies exactly can bring all the tools to handle vehicles, troops, flyers/FMCs, superheavies/GMCs, and MCs? I don't know that many who have the tools to fit all of that into a list and have it work honestly. And that's the problem. You want to put a LoW on the table without warning, you might be screwing over your opponent and wasting everyone's time just because you didn't take a moment to go "Hey, I'm bringing a Reaver, is that cool?"

I'm not against these things as part of the game, I'm against blaming the person who was caught unable to handle it because their codex just don't have the tools (or points them in such a way that they don't fit into most lists) to be ready for every single thing the game offers all at the same time, all the time. Not every book can do that and that's a flaw in the game that we really need to accept because for the time being it's not going to change (I do hope it changes in the future though).
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
How many armies exactly can bring all the tools to handle vehicles, troops, flyers/FMCs, superheavies/GMCs, and MCs? I don't know that many who have the tools to fit all of that into a list and have it work honestly. And that's the problem. You want to put a LoW on the table without warning, you might be screwing over your opponent and wasting everyone's time just because you didn't take a moment to go "Hey, I'm bringing a Reaver, is that cool?"


But why do you single out LoW for special permission/warning? Why not assume that LoW are standard, and demand advance warning for flyers or for horde armies?

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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On the Internet

 Peregrine wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
How many armies exactly can bring all the tools to handle vehicles, troops, flyers/FMCs, superheavies/GMCs, and MCs? I don't know that many who have the tools to fit all of that into a list and have it work honestly. And that's the problem. You want to put a LoW on the table without warning, you might be screwing over your opponent and wasting everyone's time just because you didn't take a moment to go "Hey, I'm bringing a Reaver, is that cool?"


But why do you single out LoW for special permission/warning? Why not assume that LoW are standard, and demand advance warning for flyers or for horde armies?

Frankly I think communication is something that should be done in general before a game so both players get the most out of it. I'm really big about not being a dick and trying to skull crush your opponent just so you can feel good about yourself. There is being a strong player, and there is being a dick, and people who try to give themselves an advantage by being unclear about their lists before the game is set up are being the latter, not the former.

The reason I'm mentioning LoW specifically here is because this is a thread about LoW. It's like asking why I don't talk about cookies in a thread about blueberry muffins. Yes the cookies (every other combination in the game) probably deserve mentioning too, but the topic was about blueberry muffins (LoW) so I'm going to talk about the muffins.
   
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It's happening, yes, and only because GW wants to sell super-heavys because they can make them more expensive. There's no thought as to how it will affect gameplay.

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The issue being generated here, regarding whether a person should or should not be ready to face anything across the table (and here we're talking pick up games, not narrative events or tournaments where expectations are different) seems to be based entirely on the idea that your list is written before you meet your opponent. And should not be changed.

I think if we put that idea to one side, and approach things from a step further back in the process. Yes, that process will take slightly longer but I believe that it's worth the extra effort.

1. You arrive at your chosen gaming location and find someone who wants a game.

2. You both decide on a points level and then write your list. Knowing that because things like flyer heavy lists, super heavies or very competitive builds can be difficult to deal with (and the emphasis is about 2 people enjoying the game not just one) you declare that is what you want to play with.


It seems like this is the step where everyone gets stuck. Why is there some sort of mental block about telling your opponent what you're planning on using? Is there a fear that an unscrupulous opponent will then tailor their list to beat you? I suspect most people do not have the model collection to do so for every eventuality, and if they did probably did not bring all of said models with them every time they turn up to play.

Added in to this is the idea that you too can write a list that is influenced by your opponents theme or army. So you both have that advantage if you wish to use it.

That this level of discussion and agreement before a game begins is somehow onerous or even disagreeable in anyway I find ridiculous. This game is all about the social contract between two players (at any level) and an honest discussion about what you want to play with should not be beyond reason.

This argument as stated does not apply only to super heavies, but since that is the newest "threat" to emerge from the changes in the game, having been most recently introduced, it is understandable that this should bring up similar arguments to the introduction of flyers etc.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





As already mentioned I have just decided to add a heft dose of Melta into my army just for the reason of dealing with the Super Heavies and Knights that are cropping up all over the place. Already in two games I took x3 squads of Deep Striking Storm Troopers with Meltas who made short work of an enemy Baneblade thanks to some good rolling and Vendetta Support. Just have to adjust to the new meta of the game, refusing to play someone for bringing something that is legal and allowed in my eyes is kind of a low blow as that peson paid money to use the model in standard games. Accusing it as "op" and "cheese" right off the bat is also in my eyes a poor excuse, as I have seen people who take a Super Heavy LOSE more often then not due to the points sink they cause.

19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
 
   
Made in us
Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar





New Orleans

My Necron flyer list wants to see your super heavy points sinks on the board. My GKs are scared of the Phantom titan list list someone bought. My Mids lists I am sure will do ok if I can make grounding tests. Like anything there are + and - to them.


01001000 01101001 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00101110  
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Reanimator wrote:
Is there a fear that an unscrupulous opponent will then tailor their list to beat you?


That's a concern, but the biggest factor is reluctance to hand your opponent veto power over your list. It's the FW "debate" all over again, where a group of players declares that they know better than GW and the rules they don't like are banned unless you beg them for special permission first. Meanwhile those same people declare that their choice of units is of course indisputably acceptable, so of course they can just show up with their standard list and expect to find a game.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






uk

You say a reluctance to hand someone veto power over your list. They ultimately have that anyway. The issue as I see is that people (on both sides of the argument) want to be able to play the way they want to, but without the risk of being denied that opportunity.

Take two examples:

Player A wants to bring a super competitive list and have a really challenging tactical game. His list is legal but aimed at giving the opponent a very tough tactical challenge.

Player B has brought his "softer" list that represents his desire to tell a story of a lost band of marines denied equipment support so has deliberately omitted certain units.

Both players want to play the game on their terms. Both have a reasonable expectation of doing so because both lists are catered for by the games mechanics. Neither is right to expect the other to conform to their idea of what they want to play.

The problem therefore- is as you said peregrine- neither wants to give the other the chance to deny them the opportunity to play the game they want.

This only remains a problem however- if the idea of not compromising for the other player is stigmatised. If player B says he does not want to play A because he's going to get stomped- he's not wrong to do so. Nor is A for refusing on the grounds that he won't get the tactical challenge he wants.

Forcing either side to conform however creates an unnecessary divide. If you don't want to play someone because their playstyle or army doesn't fit what you want then I see no problem with that. Just play someone else who does.

Clearly, if your options for opponents are limited then a compromise will need to occur, but knowing this is your situation should prepare you for that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/03 09:01:26


Masochist: Hit me!
Sadist: No.

Hive Fleet Kronos 3500pts
Craftworld {Insert eldar name} 3000 pts
1000pts and growing fast
P+M blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/338826.page

 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Reanimator wrote:
You say a reluctance to hand someone veto power over your list. They ultimately have that anyway.


Yes, in theory. But in practice it's considered TFG behavior to refuse to play against a list without a really good reason (as in the game is a complete mismatch, not just that you don't like something in your opponent's list), and even then you're expected to be reluctant to refuse to play. That's why people who want to ban FW/superheavies/etc always invent some justification for how the unit they don't like isn't part of "real 40k", instead of just saying "no thanks".

Player A wants to bring a super competitive list and have a really challenging tactical game. His list is legal but aimed at giving the opponent a very tough tactical challenge.

Player B has brought his "softer" list that represents his desire to tell a story of a lost band of marines denied equipment support so has deliberately omitted certain units.


But what does this have to do with superheavies? Player A could be a Tau Riptide spam player with nothing but codex units, while player B could be my fluffy DKoK with a Malcador.

Not that this kind of situation is going to happen in a pickup game. If you have a list where you've deliberately made weak choices to reduce your chances of winning then pretty much any pickup game is going to be a one-sided slaughter. A list like player B's only works if you're playing against a regular opponent and made special arrangements (preferably in the context of an ongoing story-based campaign) far in advance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/03 09:19:26


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
 
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