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 n0t_u wrote:
It'd still be nice to see some variation, but then that's why people build their own.

GW's addressed that and said that they do it so the boards look unified when using their terrain.

There is nothing stopping you from kit bashing or making your own however.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
On Fortifications, the main reason why virtually all fortifications are Imperial is because every world being fought over was or still is an Imperial world dating back to at least the Grand Crusade. All of these Imperial fortifications are 10,000+ years old, and have changed hands any number of times over those years. None of the other races have been big on building their forts or planetary infrastructure outside of their main racial holdings, yet Humans build forts every time they stop to pee, pee on everything they see, and go to great lengths to see everything so they can build a fort to pee.

So stop crying about missing non-Imperial Fortifications, and rejoice that you have taken control of an Imperial rest-stop.

SJ

I must have missed the Aquillas on craftworld Iyanden, Octarius, Kau'mais, Kel'shan, the Ybaric cluster, Sybari, Forgefane and other places never held by the Imperium.

My bad.

And the Tau worlds that were not originally human controlled.
And worlds that have been controlled by the orks for a long time.
And all the worlds that never had a significant Imperial pres sense.
ect.
ect.

Makumba wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sparkadia wrote:
A TAC list doesn't really stand much of a chance at beating a Superheavy.

Then it isn't a TAC list. TAC means "take all comers", not "take most comers, except the ones that bring something I don't want to be prepared to face".

But there is nothing a TAC IG army can bring to take down a raver. Unless it specialy tailors to beat one . Tailoring is not accepted here , but lets say someone does it and his army book has the options that can survive those 4 D templates , if he goes first. Cool , not to be able to go it , he needs to go to his store and buy all those autocannons he never wanted and will never use against anything other this one army that uses an eldar titan .

Its not like they have over 14 armor and people have been dealing with land raiders for how long? I would not tell my opponent I'm bringing a superheavy because list tailoring.

A LR is not going to be as manuverable as a raver , He won't have a +4 save , even against D weapons and if you play without escalation there will be no void bunkers to make it even tougher . normaly at 1500pts the ravers are taken with 1-2 bunkers and the +4inv fortification to give it two ++4 "saves". unless someone has an army that has a ton of str 7-8 shoting it does not go down fast enough , it is that much resilient and destructive.
At the same time if you take two LR and a squad of marines with the same fortification , it is not even half as destructive.

wait a secone here i think your missing a big bit of rules.
1)there is NO saves against str D NONE whatso ever...
2) putting something in the i presume you mean skyshield landing pad does NOT give it a second 4++ save, you would only get one... and i believe you need to be in cover while on top of it... NOT something you can do with a titan.... so someone is pulling the ahh pis* with this notion mate

other things ill add for you from escalation seeing as you arent allowed FW.... but titans it seems are cool.... take a shadowsword, strD wep etc etc...

i mean what it is and in its way, oook is that you are unwilling to change, you want to play the same models the same way as when you bought them, you dont want it to change, but change is inevitable, there is a reason i magnatized 20,000 points of chaos... just incase a weapon becomes rubbish i have other options there, you need to build your army the same, need more options go get them, or those that do adapt and change and move with the times will leave you for dead in the dust.. and as i said above someone in your group is telling really big porkies RE rules.. Titans of all ilk and allll the SH jsut die like anything else..if you can kill a predator or a LR you can kill these things...

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

wait a secone here i think your missing a big bit of rules.
1)there is NO saves against str D NONE whatso ever...

The Revenant gets a 4+ against D weapons. It's not a "save", it's to see whether you hit the actual target or the holo-field image. It specifically says even D weapons need to check if they hit the target.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

wait a secone here i think your missing a big bit of rules.
1)there is NO saves against str D NONE whatso ever...

The Revenant gets a 4+ against D weapons. It's not a "save", it's to see whether you hit the actual target or the holo-field image. It specifically says even D weapons need to check if they hit the target.

well i will stand corrected on that.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

wait a secone here i think your missing a big bit of rules.
1)there is NO saves against str D NONE whatso ever...

The Revenant gets a 4+ against D weapons. It's not a "save", it's to see whether you hit the actual target or the holo-field image. It specifically says even D weapons need to check if they hit the target.

Isn't it a 4+ save vs "hits"?

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
but change is inevitable

Not all change is good and not all change should just be accepted by everyone who doesn't like it. Even GW call their own rules a framework/guidelines/whatever, so they expect people to change them to their liking. For many people, "their liking" is no giant war machines randomly running around with a small skirmish force.

there is a reason i magnatized 20,000 points of chaos... just incase a weapon becomes rubbish i have other options there

This is more a testament to GW's inability to have a balanced ruleset. If you have a model with a flamer (or whatever, I just randomly picked a flamer), it should always be effective. It's role might change, but it should always be effective in some way. However, GW can't balance a set of rules so that one edition X weapon is obviously better and next edition Y is obviously better than next edition a new weapon comes out that trumps both X and Y.

Ideally, you should never feel like a unit or weapon has become rubbish and magnetising is just to give you options in case you want to change, not because the rules balance is so pants that it is no longer worth taking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ausYenLoWang wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

wait a secone here i think your missing a big bit of rules.
1)there is NO saves against str D NONE whatso ever...

The Revenant gets a 4+ against D weapons. It's not a "save", it's to see whether you hit the actual target or the holo-field image. It specifically says even D weapons need to check if they hit the target.

well i will stand corrected on that.

Well actually, the holo-fields aren't a save at all, you take them to see if the attack hit at all. You don't even roll it as a save, the attacker rolls it to see if they hit. EDIT: You ninja edited on me, lol.

ClockworkZion wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

wait a secone here i think your missing a big bit of rules.
1)there is NO saves against str D NONE whatso ever...

The Revenant gets a 4+ against D weapons. It's not a "save", it's to see whether you hit the actual target or the holo-field image. It specifically says even D weapons need to check if they hit the target.

Isn't it a 4+ save vs "hits"?

Yeah, it's basically a 2nd to-hit roll.

CZ i had a look and it says roll 4+ if moved to see if it ACTUALLY hits... and it does mention D weps.

and yes allseeing, though the magnetization is so that i dont need 30 terminators etc etc i just have enough to give me what i need and trays of magnetized bits for everything so that if needed i can change weapon loadouts and not need a million models, which i basically have anyway but it cut down on the numbers overall haha


Edit: if someone has the pair can you ACTUALLY fit a titan on the skyshield, i wouldnt have thought it fitted.... the base on my warhounds rather large... jsut looking at the rules for it too and yeah saves against all shooting attacks.... doesnt need to be cover.. but the edges need to be up so that cuts a few inch of footprint out.

mak i may have to take it back. in this case your friend is a douche if he pulls that stunt and needs a headslap. haha

 Kain wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
On Fortifications, the main reason why virtually all fortifications are Imperial is because every world being fought over was or still is an Imperial world dating back to at least the Grand Crusade. All of these Imperial fortifications are 10,000+ years old, and have changed hands any number of times over those years. None of the other races have been big on building their forts or planetary infrastructure outside of their main racial holdings, yet Humans build forts every time they stop to pee, pee on everything they see, and go to great lengths to see everything so they can build a fort to pee.

So stop crying about missing non-Imperial Fortifications, and rejoice that you have taken control of an Imperial rest-stop.

SJ

I must have missed the Aquillas on craftworld Iyanden, Octarius, Kau'mais, Kel'shan, the Ybaric cluster, Sybari, Forgefane and other places never held by the Imperium.

My bad.

I bolded and underlined the word you missed.

SJ

I don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch on either side of this argument. If someone has one and you don't want to play it then don't. Maybe the other guy will put his Super Heavy back in the box and build a normal list if you ask nicely and don't call them a cheeser. And if youre in the group of having a Super Heavy and wanting to play it because its perfectly legal then just give the opponent the opportunity to know its coming so they dont drive 30 minutes or an hour to the store just so they can spend 2 turns picking up their models off the table and then drive back home. Communication before a game on both sides goes a long way.

Stashgordon36 wrote:
I don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch on either side of this argument. If someone has one and you don't want to play it then don't. Maybe the other guy will put his Super Heavy back in the box and build a normal list if you ask nicely and don't call them a cheeser. And if youre in the group of having a [b]Super Heavy and wanting to play it because its perfectly legal then just give the opponent the opportunity to know its coming so they dont drive 30 minutes or an hour to the store just so they can spend 2 turns picking up their models off the table and then drive back home[/b]. Communication before a game on both sides goes a long way.

AND this is why i have said it over and over again..... maybe 3 of the superheavies can be that OTT, the rest... not so much, so please dont act like all of them are revenant or reavers.... many are much much more mild, and are bullet magnets. its THIS preconception that i am arguing against...

as i have said the 2 mentioned i can kind of agree on but there is ways to deal with that, but when you take a look at the rest of them they are MUCH more mild, and by mild im talking HB and LC with 1 major cannon thats not even AP1 or 2. All people hear about though are the real monsters that cost lots of points, and if you want to field id say having a VERY good model if not the real thing should be a pre-req, so that "this ice cream container counts as XXXX" bs kind of thing doesnt happen.unless ofcourse agreed on by both people. This again will heavily limit the usage of such things.

edit to bold and underline

They aren't all over the top but a few of them can make a game pretty horrible if you have no idea they are coming, that was my point. And lets all just be honest with ourselves here, losing an even match up is tolerable but losing to a broken list or getting blindsided by a reaver isn't a fun game. And dont make the "2000pts on each side seems pretty even to me" argument.

No only a couple are, and acting like they all are is rubbish, acting like they are the only ones you would see so ban them all rubbish, and there is ways to play around even them.. so again... just like when the helldrakes came along, people need to adjust their playstyle when these models are on the table and the game can still be won. adjust and be ready and you can deal with them.
If you cop one of the OTT ones, then yeah it sucks a bit but you can beat them. they arent indistructable you can LOS them, adn the walkers can be locked in combat when you mellee attack them the best they have is the stomp, so if they run them at you, assault it and it doesnt shoot..

I feel everything should be fine to throw down and play. But it basically comes down to "Don't be a Dick". You gain a reputation at your local stores people won't play with you.

Also if the guy you are about to agree to having a game with has titan sitting next to his army carrier you can bet it may show up if the points are high enough, those aren't too easy to hide.