Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I gotta say, making successful saving throws, especially invulnerables (5+, not the easy 3) is risky and rewarding. Taking and making your saves is an IMPORTANT part of the gaming experience. Being made to re-roll successful saves again is totally broken. It directly steps over the gaming balance and hands it to the controlling player. There is almost no reason to even try to make your saves, it just doesn't matter. The only inherent risk and downside to using these Psykers are usually negated with a re-rolled Psychic test. One warp charge point only to boot. Enough points leftover to further humiliate your opponent.

Why not make the opponent re-roll successful hits instead? Or re-roll successful charges. Re-roll successful leadership tests. Re-rolling saves is not an enjoyable penalty.

Step 1, find a battle-brother with divination if not already available.
Step 2, find a unit with a ton of shots.
Step 3, cast your powers, re-rolling if necessary.
Step 4, shoot, re-rolling if necessary, wound, rerolling if necessary
Step 5, look like a jerk.
Step 6, watch your opponent remove his unit.
Step 7, have no more games to play.

Does anyone actually enjoy having this happen? Could this be worse than MSS?

No more broken than re-rolling failed saves.

I'm pretty sure people feel the same when a Lord of Change turns up with the ability to re-roll to hit, to wound and failed armour saves with a 3+ / 4++. Divination is a powerful psychic table, perhaps the best there is.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Divination is a powerful psychic table, perhaps the best there is.

Especially when paired with the Runes of Fate discipline.

I just don't like it when they take over one of your guns to shoot at your own units! a prince puppetmaster'd my knight to destroy a tactical squad in my game!

I have terrible luck..*sighs*

3/10, bonus points for picking an unusual subject to troll with, but you need to be more convincing.

This thread should be titled, Does Divination break the Game, especially with what the OP referenced.

And the brokenness relies on getting the exact 2/3 powers: Precognition (if not prescience) and Misfortune. And also the other tables besides biomancy and telepathy are very meh, so that makes the comparison worse.

Honesty the other tables need to get better, compared to the others Divination is so good because the others are crap.

Biomancy is crap? 5th ed codex Tyranids would like to have a word with you.

 Happyjew wrote:
Biomancy is crap? 5th ed codex Tyranids would like to have a word with you.

Well, it had an okayish Primaris power, the confusingly over-complicated Haemmorage, three great buffs, a debuff whose usage depends on whether or not different psykers can stack it, and "absolutely not stolen from the old tyranid codex" life leech.

Three great powers (two of which are self buff only), one that's good or great depending on rules interpretation, two okay ones, and one that's really meh.

A good table overall, but not quite as good as divinitation.

But the ultimate irony of Pyromancy has got to be that the best witchfire power in the game isn't even in the unofficial witchfire table, it's that vortex of doom thingy in telekinesis.

Does it break the game? No.

Can it make for some less than pleasant experiences? Yes, in combination with other things, but it's usually not that bad.

Puppet master at least has to still roll to hit, to wound and then you (hopefully) get your saves from it. I don't feel cheated after getting Puppet Master cast on me, because hey, its my Death Machine, I brought it, sometimes the tables are turned.

But Misfortune riles up my blood. The only counter is what, 2+ invulnerables or disposable troops you weren't counting on an any save for anyway?

I just hate that because of this broken-ness, the only counter is to be an even bigger dick about it.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The only counter is what, 2+ invulnerables or disposable troops you weren't counting on an any save for anyway?

Or understanding the difference between rerolling saves and not getting a save at all.

Let's put it this way...I won't feel bad using it one a unit that is more cheese than the power itself. If you bring 2 or more riptides then you can bet your ass Im going to use Misfortune and other Divination powers without feel even a little guilty...same with Puppetmaster - when you field OP units like that I will field Be'lakor and Puppetmaster / Hallucinate your army to death, even if it's only to prove a point. One guy I play against is very chuffed about his Riptide tearing people a new one and won't even think twice about fielding multiples....so when his Riptide turns "rogue" and takes out a couple of his own Firewarriors/Suits perhaps then he will feel the extent of the OPness of the damn thing.

So all in all, no, I dont feel bad about using Misfortune against units that are blatantly too good for their cost.