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 mattyrm wrote:

In some ways (I made a thread about this ages ago) the HH has ruined it all for me about ten books back because it has put all of the conjecture to bed, but as it stands, there is no good way you can state that a Mary Sue character is essentially being a dick, when Black Library have removed all the ambiguity and basically given us plenty of dicks to pick from, and plenty of good guys to like.

Wasn't it Black Library that introduced the ambiguity in the first place? (starting with the short story showing he was training the Ultramarines in anti-marine procedures) I thought White Dwarfs and Studio Fluff always portrayed (well, "implied" since they were written from the point of view of historians) Roboute as a good guy (though he did get kinda dick-ish in some matters concerning honor or practicality like being angry with Alpharius and a few other more seedy primarchs. Even then, his point of view was at least arguable)

I could be wrong. *shrug*

 MrBlackledge wrote:
Matt i cannot agree more i have just finished scars (very good book by the way) and between that and unremembered empire it really puts a lot of the characters into a new perspective

Yeah I do agree to a point, like I said though, I think the ambiguity was half the fun because you could make your own fluff and stories and such.. now, everything is so detailed, it is going more and more into the realms of Hollywood cheese you know?

Like Conrad Curze is now fully fething evil.. like.. evil to the point where he wants to cut a pensioners throat because it will hurt Gulliman, and Robute has gone from being possibly scheming and manipulating things so he could usurp power, to being a whiter than white good guy.

I enjoyed the books, but at the same time I feel as though we gamers have lost a little freedom to roam so the speak.

I particularly liked the Khan in Scars too, he seems like a nice bloke, and I still cant help but feel sorry for Magnus, but the amount of wrong you read on these forums is ridiculous, because ambiguity no longer exists. Vulkan and Sanguinius really are Indiana Jones style heroes, and the likes of Perturabo and Lorgar really are spiteful Darth Vadar types with serious emotional issues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TiamatRoar wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

In some ways (I made a thread about this ages ago) the HH has ruined it all for me about ten books back because it has put all of the conjecture to bed, but as it stands, there is no good way you can state that a Mary Sue character is essentially being a dick, when Black Library have removed all the ambiguity and basically given us plenty of dicks to pick from, and plenty of good guys to like.

Wasn't it Black Library that introduced the ambiguity in the first place? (starting with the short story showing he was training the Ultramarines in anti-marine procedures) I thought White Dwarfs and Studio Fluff always portrayed (well, "implied" since they were written from the point of view of historians) Roboute as a good guy (though he did get kinda dick-ish in some matters concerning honor or practicality like being angry with Alpharius and a few other more seedy primarchs. Even then, his point of view was at least arguable)

I could be wrong. *shrug*

No your quite right, back in the day everything was ambiguous, I think the quest for more book sales has led them to flesh it all out though, rather than just leave a universe that was perfect for gamers to play around in.