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So, I "inherited" Baal predator couple years ago and am looking for way to bring it into my WS list as allies. I know its not anyones favorite but I think its fast/scout abilities match well with the Scar tactics, and I have a Vindy knocking around too for good measure! Question: if that's all I'm looking to really bring in, what's the cheapest yet most effective way to do that? Here's what I came up with after a dozen or so rewrites... What does dakka think?

BA allies (560pts)

HQ-(150pts)
BA Epistolar w/Shield & FotD (or Blood Lance?)

T- (95pts)
Death Co (x3) w/D-pod

FA- (155pts)
Baal Predator w/SMHB/Dzr/HKM

HS- (160pts)
BA Vindicator w/Shield/PMSB

...Libby and "death-pod" go after hordes 1st turn (tanks if takes Blood Lance) while Baal and Vindy join WS biker/rhino rush, etc etc?

I think the point on the epostilary upgrade aren't worth it. If you are running them with WS, mount him on a bike and run him with a unit. BA can take Divination, which would allow you to get re rolls to those Grav guns.

3 DC on a pod aren't going to do much, except be an easy 1st blood. A unit of scouts to camp a back field objective might do better.

I like my Baals wiith the HB sponsons, it's 10 pts cheaper than the option you have there.

Vindi is fine, nothing wrong with a 36" threat range with S10 large blast

Epistolaries for BA are terrible.

DC are terrible.

Try two ASM squads in fast razors, perhaps reserved to grab objectives later in the game.

I don't like Vindicators because they are effectively AV 11 and have no way to ignore cover.

Going off "old" hard copy codex so maybe HB Sponsons are cheaper now? Could drop HK Missile to save those points but like the first turn threat it adds? Kinda been through all that about scouts and biker Libby and understand the logic from BA standpoint, but don't think he'd keep up with my Scars on a bike imho?
Already bringing cheaper scouts in parent list, so wanted something "more" from allied list and I like having my choice of BA psychic powers! (Blood Lance vs back row of Tau Hammerheads, turn 1 kinda makes me salivate a little!) I wanted 2 powers a turn on Libby so he could get 5+ invo for unit and use shooty power in same turn, but see SoS is on enemy phase any way, so good point as far as Epistolar points!
Could bring in more D comp but I was thinking 5++ with FNP they might last a turn or 2 as is for what is basically distraction/suicide mission (since they're so terrible I won't mind when they die!)... plus they won't be alone! "Please, go ahead and focus on them while all my scouts/bikes/speeders and tanks are all up in your grill too", kinda theory?
Like the ASM/Fast Razors idea actually, will work on that one, thx! Would you ever throw down on EA for Baal, or any tank for that matter? And what about an elite choice... Sanguinary Guard or Furioso? (I know, neither right!)

Umm. The Fragnought is the best unit in the whole codex. So, yeah, the Furioso.

The best Baal for utility is TL AC, heavy bolters, and storm bolter. Move 6", fire 12 times. Profit.

A normal level 1 libby can cast both shield and FoD in 1 game turn so the epistolary upgrade is literally a complete waste of points.
Id also drop all the upgrades on your vehicles apart from the side sponsoons on the baal.
An assault squad with flamer and 2 hand flamers in a pod comes to only 125pts. Will achieve much more than 3 podded dc.

Libby with shield and fod

Assault squad
Flamer, 2 handflamers
Pod

Baal with hb side sponsoons

Vindi

515pts

I would also suggest throwing a podded fragioso in there!

Right, since it's fast you may as well have a weapon you can use every turn so SB instead of HKM... Yes, Fragonaught, love it! Working on converting some old Grey Knighits into Sang Guard, but you are so right, I will cease with such foolishness post haste!

I would honestly take a Stormraven over a Vindi. I hate the Stormraven, but I hate the Vindi even worse.

That's close to where I'm at Poly! (was thinking ASM w/Melta, but yes...)Thank you! Have never really played BA but you are all confirming my research, appreciate it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I hear you Martel732, but bringing Raven in WS list, so..? Fast moving Vindy can roll with bikers and again, act as support/fire sponge/cover for my advancing units...maybe?

Dagger wrote:
That's close to where I'm at Poly! (was thinking ASM w/Melta, but yes...)Thank you! Have never really played BA but you are all confirming my research, appreciate it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I hear you Martel732, but bringing Raven in WS list, so..? Fast moving Vindy can roll with bikers and again, act as support/fire sponge/cover for my advancing units...maybe?

Vindicators are easily neutralized and can't ignore cover. They aren't as killy as people think. I'd take a predator first. Also, vindis sucks vs MCs.

Why wouldn't the BA biker libby keep up with the WS? They don't move any faster than he does....

I'll second the furioso in a Pod, it's a bigger T1 threat than the DC. Three 3+/5+ FnP isn't hard to go through. You only need 14 AP4+ wounds mathhammer wise to put them down, even less if its AP3/S8

If I wanted BA with my WS (and I have thought about it) I'd do:

Libby on bike for Divination
Furioso in Pod
5 man scout
Baal w/HB

Should be 510 if I remember points right. But hat's alot of points and you could get this instead (for 10 points more)

2 x Storm Talons w/Skyhammers
2 x 5 man Bikes with 2 x Grav each

Less of a T1 threat (maybe) no divination but it puts out more fire power and gets you 2 more scoring units.

I've tried the idea of BA with my WS list but because the BA dex is a 5th edition dex, you don't get the same points efficiency that you do get with the SM

If my (1) Vindicator survives 1st round, it is usually the MVP. My Baal Preds on the other hand never deliver. I suppose it is because I tend to over-commit them. I do like the Flamestorm cannon, but it should have been a torrent weapon.

Writing this makes me want to try 2 fragnoughts in pods with support from 2 assault cannon/hb sponsoned baal preds and 3 tri-las preds.

Naw wrote:
If my (1) Vindicator survives 1st round, it is usually the MVP. My Baal Preds on the other hand never deliver. I suppose it is because I tend to over-commit them. I do like the Flamestorm cannon, but it should have been a torrent weapon.

Writing this makes me want to try 2 fragnoughts in pods with support from 2 assault cannon/hb sponsoned baal preds and 3 tri-las preds.

Use the dakka Baals, not the Flamestorm ones. I play against too many lists that don't care about Vindis, and the ones that do will first strike them.