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I'm just wanting to know if anybody has had success with Abaddon in a competitive sense. I only tried him once a while ago when the codex dropped with plasma chosen... that's not a very efficient tactic. I'm thinking of putting him in a blob of cultists but wanted to know if anybody thinks he is really worth it. If so, I would be interested to know how he was used.

"Deadly but not cost-efficient" about sums him up.

Most people seem to prefer the cheapness of a Biker lord or Juggerlord over Abby these days.

He can work, but be aware that in all but the largest games he represents a substantial investment that gives rather dubious benefits outside of his own killing ability.

My buddy that plays CSM uses him to decent effect within our meta but given that we lack the crazy Riptide and Wave Serpent spam of more competitive areas I'd say he's a badass but terribly limited in his ability to utilize his CC prowess. For one it's almost mandatory you give him a Land Raider since Icons no longer prevent scattering when deep striking and the Dimensional Key is naff. Footslogging means you'll waste precious turns trying to cross the board to be relevant and unfortunately his Black Crusader Warlord Trait is too situational in a tournament setting, especially given the higher number of xenos in the recent years. There's simply too much dakka for an expensive beatstick like him who doesn't act enough as a force multiplier to make up his points since taking chosen just makes your army even smaller and suspectible to the overwhelming firepower of Tau/Eldar/Necrons.

From time to time, I play Abaddon in a list where he rides up the board in a Land Raider with a bunch of MoS plasma chosen. They jump out and assault whatever they can.

I have used it in a local tournament, where I won 3 games with one draw and one loss. That's about as competitive as I get.

This list succeeds because of AV 14 and the rules around assault. Basically, you hope the Land Raider does not blow up and focus on killing more of your opponent's units then he can of yours. The goal is to force your opponent to focus on the Land Raider and Abaddon, where you probably have some advantages.

Don't buy too many other troops, you want to give your opponent as few VPs as you can. Try to keep your forces to a couple large blobs that can camp on objectives and have too many wounds to reliably kill in a standard game. Keep them in the backfield, away from all the fighting. If you do have enough points to spend on other things, get units with lascannons that can fire from afar.

The strategy is to get the LR in close enough where the passengers can get out to shoot and make sure Abaddon assaults first to eat up overwatch shots. The best thing you can possibly do is have Abaddon assault a unit that includes your opponent's commander, which can quickly net you 3 VPs. The second best thing you can do is have Abaddon assault one unit while the Chosen assault another, MoS means your chosen are going to strike first in most cases. What you want to have is a situation where you have earned around 5 VPs by turn 5, while you opponent has 1 or 2. Then hope the dice gods let the game come to an end.

Someone I play against regularly suggested Be'Lakor could make this list more competitive, but I haven't really focused on that.

Well, I tried asking for some Spawn Slingshot advice here for Typhus.

Maybe people have better advice for it with Abaddon.

Neither unit works well as a foot slogger. Termies just won't get in range to do much without a LR.

Abby murders almost anything in the game in CC, so get him there and you'll eat things.

Best bet, put Typhus/Abby in a LR with a few termies for wounds and combis. Run the spawn up, add some fiends or vindicators so you don't have a single armor target, and you can get some results.

Any footslogging termies are going to eat shovels of excrement from Tau gunlines, eldar on bikes, or FMC spam. You'll notice a lot of those list around. Also very vunerable to tarpitting with gaunts, gaurdsmen, boyz, etc.

Deepstriking Abby with MoN termies works for me most of the time....

 herpguy wrote:
I'm just wanting to know if anybody has had success with Abaddon in a competitive sense. I only tried him once a while ago when the codex dropped with plasma chosen... that's not a very efficient tactic. I'm thinking of putting him in a blob of cultists but wanted to know if anybody thinks he is really worth it. If so, I would be interested to know how he was used.

I ds him with a very smsll bodyguard or eject him at people with land raiders. Black legion gives you extremely cool terminators to use if you're willing to go that route. He is a ! BLender. He can on his own spell the doom of two or three kp's and while he's not indestructible, he's no picnic to try and know ll. I just found that he requires a good sense of timing to capiolize on. I like the DS option most. Terrain can really bone you even with a scoop out front. One lucky biker... I really think the ads option is stronger unless you commit to two land raiders.

I did blog on this. Scope it out.

The best combo using abaddon I've seen is abaddon, rage axe warp smith with 8 chaos khorne marines in a land raider running up the board next to a battle wagon full of meganobs.

Add in some helldrakes and cultists and your good to go haha.

I like him with Chosen as your troops. It will be a small army but it hits like a ton of bricks. A lot of armies will have lots of problems dealing with two land raiders and two Heldrakes.

I can also say that Abaddon has his places in lists... Those lists are just very situational. BUT! Those said lists are also very hard to deal with for TAC lists. Even a lot of tournament lists have problems with it.

I tend to put Abaddon in a LR as well just because the LR is the absolute monster in terms of delivery. Accompanied by some Possessed with the mark of Slaanesh + Icon for FNP to the entire unit. It's some nasty stuff to deal with. Most lists won't be taking AV 14 piercing weaponry en mass. Put Abaddon in a LR with Possessed as a Crimson Slaughter dex and you might as well ask your opponent if he'd like to grab a beer.

I have had Abbadon take out a five man squad of Mega Armored Nobs receiving the charge. That's impressive. He works well with Kharn rolling up in land raiders. They will draw all the fire while the Heldrakes burninate with impunity. Chosen with MoK are an excellent troop choice. It's all about synergizing the list.

Well he seems to work pretty well in James Watkins Spawntide list. He's done really well that list at a number of major GTs. I believe he runs Juggerlord with Axe of Blind Fury, Nurgle Bikelord with Black Mace and Abaddon attached to a bunch of Spawn (2xNurgle, 1xUnmarked)

Why put him with spawn? Half of their utility is their speed, and you're dooming them to a 6'' inch move by putting him in there.

Stuff Abaddon into a spartan assault tank with MoN termies and typhus because there's no party like a twelve TEQ save model party.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Why put him with spawn? Half of their utility is their speed, and you're dooming them to a 6'' inch move by putting him in there.

For the slingshot assault. http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/11/22/warhammer-40k-tips-tricks-and-dirty-tactics-slingshot-engage/

I've always thought him and Lysander were the two heaviest and hardest hitter. Price for power.

 poppa G wrote:
I've always thought him and Lysander were the two heaviest and hardest hitter. Price for power.

Not quite, Skarbrand and Be'Lakor edge them out. And there are a few generic HQ builds that can overpower either of them.

 Kain wrote:

 poppa G wrote:
I've always thought him and Lysander were the two heaviest and hardest hitter. Price for power.

Not quite, Skarbrand and Be'Lakor edge them out. And there are a few generic HQ builds that can overpower either of them.

They must cost a fortune then...

 poppa G wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 poppa G wrote:
I've always thought him and Lysander were the two heaviest and hardest hitter. Price for power.

Not quite, Skarbrand and Be'Lakor edge them out. And there are a few generic HQ builds that can overpower either of them.

They must cost a fortune then...

Be'Lakor is 350 points but he's a flying eternal warrior daemon prince with a native 4++ save, Shrouded, ignores dangerous terrain, is a ML3 psyker who automatically gets all the telepathy powers, and each time someone fails a morale check at his hand he gains d3 warp charges back. His sword hits at +1 s with fleshbane and armorbane and is master crafted.

Skarbrand is a super-bloodthirster who has fleet instead of flight and carries a Fleshbane instant death on all hits axe.

And also the likes of Ironfather Smashfether are far cheaper than you'd expect.

Either of them gets wrecked by Draigo however.

I like Abby in a LR with 8 MoK chosen. He runs with chosen in rhinos that occupy the ground and keep objectives.

Another part of the force is MoK biker with a Juggerlord / AoBF. That way, my opponent has to chose between one or the other - both have the speed and durability to reach CC.

Not very competitve, but really fun to play.

The more I'm thinking about it and reading this thread the more I'm realizing footslogging is probably a bad idea for him. Sure with a cultist blob he's survivable but wasting 265 points on the ultimate beatstick that can only get in combat turn 3 at the earliest seems like a waste.

I'm thinking of running him in a list with 2 LRs. He's with a squad of plague marines (who are actually probably the best assaulters in the codex now and have the staying power to not just evaporate when they leave the LR like standard CSM do) and the other LR has a nurgle lord with the black mace with another squad. Then allied in I'll have a Mega Armored Warboss with 5 MANz in a BW. That will be the core of my list I'm thinking.

It's tough to make him work. Land Raiders go down to grav weapons too easily, and deep striking is an adventure. Slingshotting or infiltrating with Cypher, or both are the best bets.

I like using him with 8 MoK regular marines bearing meltas and a ccw, Icon of Wrath in a Land Raider with dozer blades and dirge caster.

Expensive? Yes. But it can cross terrain really well and make a beeline to the heart of the enemy. The marines can crack transports nicely before a charge, and the Icon makes them a bit speedier for closing during charges. I only bring him out for games of 2k and above, though.

Since I also have a bike squad and a drake, enemies can't always focus on his ride exclusively. By turn 2, odds are they are being hit by at least two units. And if the LR survives, placing it to help cancel overwatch helps a lot in the survival of your vanguard.

I don't think I've ever lost him in CC. So far he's eaten Draigo several times (rocks the he has Hatred and PE against him but Draigo doesn't get any bonuses against aby since he's not a daemon), Vulkan, Trygons, the Avatar of Khaine and a slew of Ork Warbosses.

Though once he died like a punk to a bunch of eldar guardians shooting at him after he ate a Doom debuff...

I've actually used him to great effect in a zombie list. I have not tried the Sawn Slingshot though.

The spawn slingshot sounds extremely interesting...

Land raiders are okay if belakor can invis them.

Spawn slingshot is kinda gamey imo. I don't use that tactic in friendly games.

 herpguy wrote:
The more I'm thinking about it and reading this thread the more I'm realizing footslogging is probably a bad idea for him. Sure with a cultist blob he's survivable but wasting 265 points on the ultimate beatstick that can only get in combat turn 3 at the earliest seems like a waste.

I'm thinking of running him in a list with 2 LRs. He's with a squad of plague marines (who are actually probably the best assaulters in the codex now and have the staying power to not just evaporate when they leave the LR like standard CSM do) and the other LR has a nurgle lord with the black mace with another squad. Then allied in I'll have a Mega Armored Warboss with 5 MANz in a BW. That will be the core of my list I'm thinking.

Literally the only place I have seen people have consistent success with Abbadon is footslogging with 35 Cultists. If you put him with Marines then they just die to torrent. Putting him with Terminators or in a Land Raider just magnify the underlying problem with him, you have too many points in one place. With Terminators (or even a semi kitted out Marine unit) in a Land Raider you are getting into Deathstar territory in terms of points, and it certainly doesn't hit like a Deathstar (or have anywhere near the durability it needs). Also with the amount of points you put into it that unit simply has to connect or you lose as the rest of your army doesn't have enough damage output. The huge footprint of the Cultists lets you react quickly (basically its a slingshot assault but more defensively orientated) and control the board pretty well. It can get to assault by turn 3 reliably, but realistically any time that happens you will have complete control of the board (because it means your opponent has no units at all within 12" of the middle of the board) so should be in a position to win anyway.
The most successful Chaos player locally uses two 35 man blobs with Abby in one and a Blind Fury Juggalord in the other + 3 Drakes and some Oblits. Half the time you don't even need the blobs to connect, people don't just zerg into them because not much can deal with Abby or the Lord which means they can just win you the game by walking half way up the board and camping on objectives while the Drakes do the work clearing up support units and scoring. It might not be efficient, but looking at him purely in terms of damage output is a mistake - he makes a big scoring unit Fearless and scares people from assaulting them (worth noting that the Cultists are actually pretty solid in assualt once they have Counter-Attack and PE) which usually counts more for actually winning games than his damage.

Powerguy, that's a really good idea, and very good points on it being a terrible idea to sink too many points into an Abaddon unit that really can't rampage through your opponent's army. Abaddon definitely strikes fear into the hearts of enemies as nobody wants to get anywhere near him. A juggerlord is the same. I used a list with Kharn in a big cultist blob the other week and it was pretty successful (Kharn even killed a Warhound Titan that didn't have D weapons in one game) but Kharn leaves a lot to be desired due to him being able to dish out damage but not being able to take a hit himself. However I can only picture the bitching that would ensue if I dropped 3 Heldrakes on the table (despite them being not close to as OP as the interwebz claims). People at my FLGS constantly complain about my flying circus despite them bringing every broken shooty configuration in the book. I even had one guy running Centurion Star + Tigurius say my spawn were broken...

Anyways, I'm thinking the spawn slingshot is definitely the way to go with Abaddon (if not the cultist blob). The more I think about it the more I realize that the Chaos Land Raiders are just very expensive boxes once their contents are disgorged. Their dakka is just pitiful.

Plus the idea of running 2 squads of nurgle spawn piques my interest as I've been running the dual Nurgle lord/Juggerlord combo but have been finding the Nurgle lord to outperform the Juggerlord by virtue of having much more durable spawn that can take a lot more shooting (they're twice as durable against bolters) and don't evaporate aganist MCs.

Here's a sample list I just though of with Abaddon:

Abaddon

Nurgle bike lord with black mace (as much of a Khorne guy as I am this dude just always gets the job done)

2 x 10 cultists

2 x 5 plague marines (I could probably save some points and just use more cultist squads but plague marines can actually move up the field to capture objectives and are extremely hard to kill, plus they fight to the last man and can kill things in assault)

2 x 5 Nurgle Spawn (With abby and nurgle lord obviously)

Heldrake with baleflamer

3 x Obliterators with MoN

2 x Obliterators with MoN

2 x Obliterators with MoN (I haven't been liking Obliterators too much this edition due to me finding their dakka falling short of their points cost and Centurions being a blatant +1 slap in the face to them... but I think they would work better than AC havocs due to being able to move up with the force and with Knights inevitably being a thing)

The biggest issue I have with using Spawn for a slingshot assualt is that the max unit size of 5 means you don't get much out of it compared to something like a full Beast pack (admittedly they are the best unit in the game for it, you can drag an infantry model the complete width of the board pretty much). WIth only 5 models + Abby you can't bridge that far back and you end up with a very narrow frontage which limits what you can threaten (i.e if you are spread across the board in a line you can threaten units either side of you). Also with only 5 models its not that hard to flank and get shots into Abby if you really want to.