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Normally i run eldar, grey knights, and sometimes a little csm, so this is a first at space marines. (ps: i never used to play them because they were poster boys who were considered noobish op buttons, but now that they are middle, and i have had my fill with eldar. I used to play them in 4th edition/start of 5th edition.)

Hq
1. Chapter Master-Artificer armour, burning blade.
Or
2. Captain- Artificer, Burning blade.
1. Honour guard- 9
2. vanguard vets- 9- 3 storm, 4 plasma pistols
Drop pod-Death wing launcher

Elite
Stern Guard- 10- combi weapon(10) x2
Drop Pods- Death wing launcher x2

Troops
Tactical squad-5- melta gun x2
Tactical squad-5 flammer x2
Forgot i paid for 6 drop pods... ( got rid of 2 now, so more points...)

Heavy Support
Devestator- 4 missiles, flak

So #1=1870
and #2=1816
Counts as iron hands unless other chapter is better.

A- I don't know if this is any good, or if i have enough defense against flyers.
B-I don't know which list to choose, and if choosing B should i give them all Jump packs instead.
C- what should i fill the extra points on?

All criticisms should be done with the full logical process at your disposal (don't just say stupid, give solutions.)

The fluff is that the guy left the imperium (don't shout heresy), and is running their own renegade department away from chaos/evil or the false sense of the emperor.) They have ancient writings from the emperor and know that he was not the god king he was but infact a great and powerful leader who would have lead a new age, they strive to defeat chaos, and return humanity to the glory they deserve. They will ally with any intelligent being and are not xenon phobic but still have their doubts and misconceptions. They are lead by a few characters. An inquisitor named Jack who works behind the seen on a council trying to get information and track down renegades who have not been tainted by chaos, to recruit them. A captain named lucious who was disgusted when he started to remember his past life and wanted to change the way the imperium is headed. And finally a Imperial guard general named zach who was alive during the Horus heresy and is disgruntled by how the imperium has turned out (he/his men got trapped in the warp and escaped with a large time lapse). Any way, they take all they can get, have blue armour with black and red embroidery, invite all who pass their tests, and like to use stealth and hit and run tactics. This includes drop pods.


Ps the x2 was the # of units being multiplied.

Iron hands aren't very good in practise no one makes the 6+s, I d check out the forge world supplements for chapters good at drop podding, I would use ultras for tactical doctrin, when you come down. I d take 5 tac squads and maybe one with marneus Calgar so you can use the doctrin twice.

 Rupertrampton wrote:
Iron hands aren't very good in practise no one makes the 6+s.

I seriously beg to differ. My regular opponents HATE my 6+ army wide fnp for how often it gets rolled.

A) 4 flakk ML is not enough against most armies even fielding just one flier. You have ADL and Stormtalon gunships at your disposal. One ADL and one Stormtalon (w Skyhammer) would probably be a balanced anti-air choice.

B) Jump infantry is not good in big numbers, adding the jump packs will make them non scoring and a lot more expensive. However, I do field one jump pack assault squad with a jump pack chaplain and have very good success with them if I target enemy shooting units.

C) Where to spend extra points are always a tough choice. You seem to have no long range anti-tank (lascannon) which are always nice.

Here are some changes I would do in your situation:

About HQ:
Consider taking Pedo Kantor as HQ, making the Sternguard scoring units. Also might replace the vanguard with a command squad and get apothecary. (Note that Pedo's buff would add 1 attack to everyone within 12 inch, which I think it is better than a captain with burning blade, specially considering Pedo already comes with a power fist).

About Elite:
Your Sternguard would now be troops

About Troops
There is nothing in the rules that allows a 5 man (or 10 for that matter) to take 2 meltaguns or 2 flamers, you have to pick from one special weapon and one heavy weapon choice. Also, marines without transport die quickly.

Squads of marines with 5 men in each is way too small for most games (that does count killpoints), if you choose Pedo you got more troops now. You want to make your marines more survivable by putting them into squads of 10 (you can always combat squad) and give them a rhinos.

About Heavy Support:
Devastators with flakk are vastly over-priced point-wise, bring an Stormtalon (with Skyhammer)/ADL instead (or both if you can find the points).

@OP : Vanguard Vets are generally considered an overpriced, underwhelming unit. Stormbolters are a points sink and plasma pistols are underwhelming as well - I'd consider taking the honour guard. They're far better IMO (more killy in combat and more survivable overall - a great retinue for your HQ or even on their own)

Devs with Flakk Missiles are seriously overcosted and underperforming AA. 25 points for a Flakk is insane. If you really want to use Devs, take las or plas and get an Aegis Defense line with Quad gun for them to sit with.

Tac squads with only 5 men cannot take 2 specials. Also, having them unprotected/sitting around is a waste. They need some way to get to objectives safely. With IH tactics, Rhinos work since they can regain hull points each turn with a successful roll.

Burning blade is nice, but I would prefer to take Shield Eternal and a Thunderhammer - Gives your HQ eternal warrior, 2+ (with the artificer)/3++ and a weapon that will do almost if not just as well as the burning blade will.

This above is good points, though for AA stalkers are the best at AA duty in your codex, with interceptor and skyfire they they can down a heldrake (or at least 2/3 considering the 5+ inv) or the hunters with the ninja rockets that get S7 AB.

Also I would recommend pedro kantor just play him as who ever fits your theme, but his abilities are to good to pass for your list.

Again the shield eternal and thunder hammer combo is the best combo out there for chapter masters because they turn from Ap2 magnets into champions of the emperor.

Hope this helps, and Good luck!

Ok, so if you like the idea of a drop pod army, I'd consider the Star Phantoms (FW) Chapter Tactics.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/F/FWchaptertactics.pdf

You can get a lot of shots to do real damage on turn 1 with that. Try starting with a 5-pod list, something like this:

1) CM w/Honor Guard (might be neat to put him in Terminator armor so he can use his Orbital Bombardment the turn he lands, since they won't be doing any other shooting anyway)

2) Tac Squad - matching special and combi weapon, melta bombs (for MC). I'd go plasma (pretty safe bet) or grav (ok if you can get in-range) here.

3) Tac Squad - matching special and combi weapon, melta bombs (for MC). I'd go plasma (pretty safe bet) or grav (ok if you can get in-range) here.

4) Sternguard - 10 bodies, combat squad on deployment with a few combi meltas to pop a vehicle and the other half either with combis or regular ammo does just fine

5) Either empty if you have other units on the field, or I'd go with a cheap 5 man flamer assault squad, or go all-out and load it up with 10 more sternguard.

Since you will then primarily be a "null deploy" list without anythinn substantial on the table, you should consider other fliers for your anti-air. Perhaps a Stormraven with a cheap scoring scout squad inside would be nice. Maybe even pair it with a Stormtalon as an escort?

Anyway, the story sounds neat behind your chapter, so maybe involve some of those other allied units, like the Imperial Guard or Inquisition ties you talk of? They can bring some nice air units or long-range weapons to the fight.

Okay so i see a few chapter tactics i can use;
Iron hands, 6+ fnp to all. it will not die.
Scorpions: free fnp apothecary for all veterans/tactical sergeants.
Star phantoms: Re-roll 1 reserve rolls if wish, most guns twinlinked 1 round
The fire hawks: +1 str on flammer/hammer of wrath (flammer only when it enters), Vanguard/assault are scoring




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Attempt # 2
Hq
Captain-AA,BB, JP
*Vanguard veteran-6, 2 ss, 2 pw, 1 PF
Command squad-5, 5 combi melta
Drop pod-death

Troop
Tactical Squad-5 melta gun, combi weapon
Tactical Squad-5 melta gun, combi weapon
Tactical Squad-5, flammer, combi weapon
Tactical Squad-5, flammer, combi weapon
Drop pods x4

Elite
Sternguard-10, 10 combi bolters

Allies
Inquisitor coteaz
War band-servitorx3 (plasma cannon)x3, Jokerox2, warriorx6 (plasma gun)x3 (bolter)x3.
Stormraven- Multi-melta, Psy-bolt, assault cannon, hurrican bolters.

The tactics i am thinking of using is the 5+ fnp to all the guys who have sergants. Coteaz allows first turn/ reserve manipulation, not enough vanguard or sternguard to do anything special with them.

(i was wondering if instead taking Honour guard and putting them in a cheaper storm raven would be better.)

List is 1999 points.


Ps while i hate taking named characters/coteaz, he is the best buy you can get with no exception...





However, i currently have a imperial and Inquisitor/grey knights army (however the inq is just to oversee the battle and organize matters behind the scene(play Dark Heresy ). So a basic marine army might also be good, so here is a second attempt but with honour guard.

Hq
Chapter master-AA,BB, shield eternal
*Honour guard-10
Storm Raven- Multi melta, las cannon.

Troop
Tactical Squad-5 melta gun, combi weapon
Tactical Squad-5 melta gun, combi weapon
Tactical Squad-5, flammer, combi weapon
Tactical Squad-5, flammer, combi weapon
Drop pods x4

Elite
Sternguard-10, 10 combi bolters
Sternguard-10, 10 combi bolters


List totals 1995

I d go mass tacs, I don't think assult units in drop pods work very well, I d use a storm raven for honour guard. To be honest I'd go all guns, I don't know the best way of getting a cm in. I d go 7 pods 4 squads of ten then three assult squads of five man with two flamers. To get four pods on turn one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I d put marneus Calgar in one of the pods so you can use tac doctrin twice and you have an hq to cc

It's tempting to build a captain/CM as you have, but he's going to get punked in close combat by a wide variety of things, and that's not fun at all. If you want him charging into the thick of the enemy (and what else are you going to use him for?)- give him shield eternal or at least a storm shield.

On the fluff side: i am planning on giving my guys mechish leg enhancments, to simulate jump packs. This way instead of using jp to move around they just run/jump faster.(which is more inline with how the rules represent jump packs anyway i find). Its also going to be part of the silent hit/run tactics and jungle planet theme i am going for, the colour scheme will be dark blue, red and black. (dark blue is actually great at night camaflague, and even works in most forest setting and even in some winter back grounds.)