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Get Arankyr the Traveler in a Night Scythe with a Chronomotron. Purchase Stormteks plain with Voltaic Staffs and board them in other Night Scythes. Bring an Aegis Defense line with a Comms Relay (to help with reserve rolls for your flyers). Also consider purchasing Nemesor Zandrekh for his dubious Special Rule for reserves if you are brave or have points. Position your units in the Movement Phase to try and lure the enemy Lord of War into facing, in some capacity, its allies (a good way to get that LoW to face his own troops is to DS a monolith or some infantry where your opponent cant resist but target it.). When this is achieved, disembark Arankyer in range for his Mind in the Machine power against the LoW. Execut Mind of the Machine, and make sure you do so by investing in the Chronomotron, and unleash the enemy Lord of War's firepower on his own army, then wreck the bastard with the Stormtek's Haywire (as much as you can, your other firepower in your army, especially Gauss weapons, will bring the enemy Lord of War to Ruin.

It worked for me like I broke the game.

We looked it up in the books and its all legit. It wouldn't work in Apocalypse, because SHs are classified as "Super Heavy Vehicles", but in Escalation they are classified as "Vehicles (Super Heavy)". MitM works against "Vehicles", ergo RAW for Escalation

Um....I'm still new to Necrons so I understood little of that. So the traveler has some ability that makes your enemy fire upon itself?

Yeah man... I think its not kosher here to state rules verbatim, but the rule is for Necron HQ Arankyr the Traveler, and its called Mind iin the Machine, which on a certain roll lets you commandeer temporarily the shooting of any vehicle.

If you really want to game Escalation, bring a Transcendent C'tan Shard with two waves of withering and Translimnal slide.

I did bring TC, but not with those options.. that;s cheating. You can't take 2 of the same weapon.

I picked the cheapest base option, then bpught AMMS (was playing against horde army) along with WoW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Transcendent CTan must take 2 powers from the following list."

Not 1x2

 jasper76 wrote:
Yeah man... I think its not kosher here to state rules verbatim, but the rule is for Necron HQ Arankyr the Traveler, and its called Mind iin the Machine, which on a certain roll lets you commandeer temporarily the shooting of any vehicle.

Damn that sounds nifty! So should my next purchase be him or the stormlord?

Hey man. I edited the original post to be much friendlier to people not steeped in the Necron codex.

If you play Escalation games, I'd say he is the next thing you should buy or convert, for sure. That rule is wicked.

He has a crap armor save, and no Invul, though, so after one try with that Special Rule, he's dead meat. Glass cannon, but a Super Heavy glass cannon in Escalation games.

He used to be a throwaway HQ, in all honesty, but Mind in the Machine I think makes him the MVP for Escalation games.

He was certainly the MVP in my game. And the biggest points return I've ever had in any Necron game so far, bar none.


Stormlord is fun as hell though. Get him eventually. I used him tonight too (3500 point game). He unleashes madness in high point games...probably not worth the points in sub-2K games.

 Sasori wrote:
If you really want to game Escalation, bring a Transcendent C'tan Shard with two waves of withering and Translimnal slide.

Two waves of withering?

Not sure if this will be legal.

 jasper76 wrote:
I did bring TC, but not with those options.. that;s cheating. You can't take 2 of the same weapon.

I picked the cheapest base option, then bpught AMMS (was playing against horde army) along with WoW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Transcendent CTan must take 2 powers from the following list."

Not 1x2

RAW, it is legal. This has been brought up before. IT doesn't say "Must take two separate powers" it says two powers. I.E. You can purchase it twice.

If you don't believe me, feel free to create a thread in YMDC, but RAW it is legal, just like you gamed the Superheavy rules.

No dude. You must take 2 powers, and there's a list of several powers. Pick 2. Then after that you can buy the other powers, if you like.

When you buy a Melta gun....can you buy as many as you like, or just the one?

 jasper76 wrote:
No dude. You must take 2 powers, and there's a list of several powers. Pick 2. Then after that you can buy the other powers, if you like.

When you buy a Melta gun....can you buy as many as you like, or just the one?

You are taking two powers, two waves of withering... It does not say two separate powers.

As I said, feel free to bring it up in YMDC, but this was brought up a long time ago when Escalation was released, and RAW it is legal.

"You must pick 2 powers from the following list."

Sorry man, it doesnt get clearer than that. If you only picked 1 of those powers, you cheated. You have to pick 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If it said "The Chaos Space Marine must pick 2 Marks", you could not pick the Mark of Nurgle twice.

 jasper76 wrote:
"You must pick 2 powers from the following list."

Sorry man, it doesnt get clearer than that. If you only picked 1 of those powers, you cheated. You have to pick 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If it said "The Chaos Space Marine must pick 2 Marks", you could not pick the Mark of Nurgle twice.

Ok, Take it to YMDC if you think I'm wrong, but I'll try to explain it to you one more time.

If I purchase 2 Waves of withering, I have paid the cost for two powers. That meets the requirement, for purchasing two powers. I have paid the cost for 2x waves of withering, which is two powers. It is not two separate powers, but hat is not stipulated.

Can you show me where in the rules it states it must be two separate powers? You can't, because it doesn't say that. It simply says two powers, and by purchasing two waves of withering, I have paid for two powers. I therefore, meet the requirement for the rule.

Seriously, if you think you're right, then take it to YMDC.

2 "of the following" powers, followed by a list of individual powers.

You have 1 penny, 1 nickel, 1 dime, and 1 quarter.

I say, "You must take two of the displayed coins."

What do you do? Take 2 pennies, Nope. 2 nickels? nope, etc.

I'm prolly being a jerk at this point, and sorry for that, but there's no question at all in my mind. It's plain English, at least to me.

Believe me...I have a vested interest in you being correct on this.

 jasper76 wrote:
2 "of the following" powers, followed by a list of individual powers.

You have 1 penny, 1 nickel, 1 dime, and 1 quarter.

I say, "You must take two of the displayed coins."

What do you do? Take 2 pennies, Nope. 2 nickels? nope, etc.

I'm prolly being a jerk at this point, and sorry for that, but there's no question at all in my mind. It's plain English, at least to me.

Believe me...I have a vested interest in you being correct on this.

This topic was brought up, long before you even joined the forum. I'm trying to tell you by RAW, you can have two Waves of Withering. If you believe yourself to be so right, then why don't you create a YMDC thread, since you think I'm wrong.

Your analogy is also flawed.

If I purchase two powerfists, how many weapons have I bought?

If I purchase two waves of withering, how many powers have I bought?

it's 2. I have purchased two powers.

Show me where it says it must be two separate powers. It does not.

I purchase two waves of withering. I have therefore purchased 2 powers, and met the requirements of the rule. It is that simple. Is wave of withering on the list of powers? I purchase it twice, and therefore have purchased 2 powers from the list.

OK man...you pulled the Senior card.

I dont even care to subject it to lawyerly debate on the aggressive TMDC forum. It is not a question in my mind, unless someone ever tries to pull it on me, in which case, I would read the Plain English of the RAW in the Escalation book entry for the Transendental C'Tan and tell them to pick a separate power, because they just cheated me.

I wouldn't pull those shennanigans on anyone else, nor do I think 2 Wands of Withering would normally be very effective compared to the alternative combinations.

Anyway, Mind in the Machine is awesomesauce in Escalation! Arankyr is my new favorite HQ, and I wanted to spread the word to the Necrontyr.

 jasper76 wrote:
OK man...you pulled the Senior card.

I dont even care to subject it to lawyerly debate on the aggressive TMDC forum. It is not a question in my mind, unless someone ever tries to pull it on me, in which case, I would read the Plain English of the RAW in the Escalation book entry for the Transendental C'Tan and tell them to pick a separate power, because they just cheated me.

I wouldn't pull those shennanigans on anyone else, nor do I think 2 Wands of Withering would normally be very effective compared to the alternative combinations.

Then don't go around on this forum, saying it's not legal, if you are not prepared to back it up, and take it to YMDC.

I have proven, with plain English, that is perfectly legal. You have not shown any kind of comprehensible argument against it.

So, you'd force other people to follow your interpretation, even though it's wrong? That's cheating. If someone picks 2x waves of withering, they are following the RAW. You don't have to like it, but RAW is its perfectly legal.

You even use the keyword in your post here"Separate" which is not used in the rules.

So, either back up your position, or don't go spouting wrong information anymore.

 Sasori wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
OK man...you pulled the Senior card.

I dont even care to subject it to lawyerly debate on the aggressive TMDC forum. It is not a question in my mind, unless someone ever tries to pull it on me, in which case, I would read the Plain English of the RAW in the Escalation book entry for the Transendental C'Tan and tell them to pick a separate power, because they just cheated me.

I wouldn't pull those shennanigans on anyone else, nor do I think 2 Wands of Withering would normally be very effective compared to the alternative combinations.

Then don't go around on this forum, saying it's not legal, if you are not prepared to back it up, and take it to YMDC.

I have proven, with plain English, that is perfectly legal. You have not shown any kind of comprehensible argument against it.

So, you'd force other people to follow your interpretation, even though it's wrong? That's cheating. If someone picks 2x waves of withering, they are following the RAW. You don't have to like it, but RAW is its perfectly legal.

You even use the keyword in your post here"Separate" which is not used in the rules.

So, either back up your position, or don't go spouting wrong information anymore.

Done. I hope it is enlightening for us both. It can only work to my adnvantage, if I were ever to meet anyone who respected Dakka forum consensus over plain English, should the case be made in your favor.

We looked it up in the books and its all legit. It wouldn't work in Apocalypse, because SHs are classified as "Super Heavy Vehicles", but in Escalation they are classified as "Vehicles (Super Heavy)". MitM works against "Vehicles", ergo RAW for Escalation.

I don't know what to say, but I must.

You can't be serious here. You just can't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FWIW, must take 2 from a list does not equal taking one twice.

One key argument that 2x WoW is legal:

The original C'tan shard specifically says to pick two DIFFERENT powers from a list.

The transcendent C'tan just says to pick two powers from a list.

Otherwise, the wording is identical.

Therefore, since the distinction had to be made originally, RAW you can take two of the same power.

 jasper76 wrote:
Get Arankyr the Traveler in a Night Scythe with a Chronomotron. Purchase Stormteks plain with Voltaic Staffs and board them in other Night Scythes. Bring an Aegis Defense line with a Comms Relay (to help with reserve rolls for your flyers). Also consider purchasing Nemesor Zandrekh for his dubious Special Rule for reserves if you are brave or have points. Position your units in the Movement Phase to try and lure the enemy Lord of War into facing, in some capacity, its allies (a good way to get that LoW to face his own troops is to DS a monolith or some infantry where your opponent cant resist but target it.). When this is achieved, disembark Arankyer in range for his Mind in the Machine power against the LoW. Execut Mind of the Machine, and make sure you do so by investing in the Chronomotron, and unleash the enemy Lord of War's firepower on his own army, then wreck the bastard with the Stormtek's Haywire (as much as you can, your other firepower in your army, especially Gauss weapons, will bring the enemy Lord of War to Ruin.

It worked for me like I broke the game.

We looked it up in the books and its all legit. It wouldn't work in Apocalypse, because SHs are classified as "Super Heavy Vehicles", but in Escalation they are classified as "Vehicles (Super Heavy)". MitM works against "Vehicles", ergo RAW for Escalation

It works in apocalypse.
SHVs follow all the rules for vehicles, in both Escalation and Apoc.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
One key argument that 2x WoW is legal:

The original C'tan shard specifically says to pick two DIFFERENT powers from a list.

The transcendent C'tan just says to pick two powers from a list.

Otherwise, the wording is identical.

Therefore, since the distinction had to be made originally, RAW you can take two of the same power.

This is my counter to you and I will leave the topic at this:

Please pick two numbers between 1 and 10.

Naw wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
One key argument that 2x WoW is legal:

The original C'tan shard specifically says to pick two DIFFERENT powers from a list.

The transcendent C'tan just says to pick two powers from a list.

Otherwise, the wording is identical.

Therefore, since the distinction had to be made originally, RAW you can take two of the same power.

This is my counter to you and I will leave the topic at this:

Please pick two numbers between 1 and 10.

2 and 2. It doesn't say pick two different number, it might be better to take two numbers in that situation, but in the C'tans case you can take two of the same power (weapon)

IMO, you just picked 1 number twice, not 2 numbers. That's how I read the rules, that's how I'll play them until convinced otherwise or FAQd

 jasper76 wrote:
IMO, you just picked 1 number twice, not 2 numbers. That's how I read the rules, that's how I'll play them until convinced otherwise or FAQd

So are you going to deny a tau two same drones? (Take up to Two Drones), two of the same weapon for crisis suits? (May take up to three items from support systems and/or ranged weapons?), same as the C'tan (Take two powers).

As it is, you are cheating your opponent, and forcing a situation where there is none, your interpretation is wrong.

Whoa, I am cheating noone. I am the Trancendent C'Tan player here!

I took 2 separate powers, because that's how I read the rules.

I don't have a Tau codex, so I don't know how it reads.
If it says, "Take two of the following", "Pick 2 of the following", you must pick 2 of the following", then yes. The phrase "Two of the following", followed by a list of items, means that the person who wrote it is talking about 2 unique whatever.

For example, you must pick your 2 favorite bands from the following list:

1. The Beatles
2. The Who
3. The Rolling Stones
4. Led Zeppelin
5. Pink Floyd

You cant pick The Who twice, and say that you have answered the question.

To me, its plain English.

BTW, I posted this on the YMDC forum, I don't even care that much to argue about it anymore, esp since I dont think I'd ever take 2 Waves of Withering.

Transcendent Power Wording:

A Transcendent C'tan must take two Ascendant Powers (Weapons) from the following list:

Tau crisis suits:

Any crisis Shas'ui may take up to three items from the Ranged Weapons and/ or Support Systems lists
Any Crisis Shas'ui or Crisis Shas'vre may take up to two drones from the Drones List

The problem with your 'list' is that everything is unique, in 40k you can have same weapons, such as two plasma pistols, two plasma rifles, etc.


It's not an issue at all as the powers are counted as 'Weapons' as well, rather then unique individualized abilities.

Yeah, I don't know. I've become confused to the point of not caring. Like I said, I'll play my Transecendent C'Tan with 2 unique powers, (a) because ity makes more tactical sense, (b) is more fun, (c) is less cheesy, and (d) its how I read the rules.

Without an FAQ clarifying, honestly I think I'd read your Tau book the same way.

But I don't want to argue about it, for real. You can have the last word. This thread was originally intended to be about Arankyr the Traveler and his Mind in the Machine rule, nothing to do with Transcendent CTan.

Oh my Void Dragon, not this again. I thought the whole double Wave Of Withering thing got cleared up ages ago on YMDC (back when Escalation first dropped).

I'm not going to bother retyping out everything from that thread, but the final nail in the coffin came down to-
"Look at the wording for the Tesseract Vault. Now look at the wording for the Transcendent C'tan. Note how they differ. Final verdict: RAW dictates the C'tan can take two of the same power."

If you don't want to play by RAW, that's up to you, but unless they end up FAQ'ing it, this is the way the majority of players will be playing it.

 skoffs wrote:
Oh my Void Dragon, not this again. I thought the whole double Wave Of Withering thing got cleared up ages ago on YMDC (back when Escalation first dropped).

I'm not going to bother retyping out everything from that thread, but the final nail in the coffin came down to-
"Look at the wording for the Tesseract Vault. Now look at the wording for the Transcendent C'tan. Note how they differ. Final verdict: RAW dictates the C'tan can take two of the same power."

If you don't want to play by RAW, that's up to you, but unless they end up FAQ'ing it, this is the way the majority of players will be playing it.

Hah, that's what I said earlier, but I got called out for "Bringing up seniority"

lol.