| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
 |
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/12 21:54:33
Subject: Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
|
source
Fruit flies make blazing fast turns like fighter jets, study says
By Amina Khan
This post has been updated, as indicated below.
April 10, 2014, 5:21 p.m.
Fruit flies could make some talented fighter pilots. Scientists who had the insects wing it through two laser beams watched the bugs make hairpin turns at blazing fast speeds, by banking in the same way that fighter jet planes do. The findings, published in the journal Science, shed light on these tiny critters’ remarkable ability to evade predators (and fly swatters).
[Updated at 5:15 p.m. PDT April 10: Tracking how these insects fly in response to a threat should help researchers understand the fruit fly's inner life, said Cornell University physicist Jane Wang, who was not involved in the research.
"The insects turn because they have some internal control circuitry, just like a pilot [who's] turning a plane," Wang said. "And by looking how the insects turn, we might be able to say what the 'pilot' is thinking."]
When trying to escape from a threat, the Drosophila hydei flies turn at a speed that’s five times faster than their normal turning speed, according to researchers from the University of Washington. Instead of turning right or left on the "yaw" axis, like a boat in the water, the flies execute banked turns, by rolling and pitching their bodies at the same time, which supercharges their turns. They can execute one of these within less than one hundredth of a second after seeing a threat, the scientists said. That’s 50 times faster than the blink of an eye.
“A lot of other people working in the field … would not have predicted the fly could rotate itself so quickly,” said study coauthor Michael Dickinson, a neurobiologist at the University of Washington in Seattle.
Dickinson and his colleagues captured 3,566 wing beats involved in 92 separate fruit fly escapes, which was no easy task. To capture such infinitesimally tiny movements, the scientists had to use high-speed cameras that took 7,500 frames per second -- that’s nearly 40 frames for each wing beat. They also needed flood the flight area with light to capture the motions in high detail -- but all that light would blind the flies, which wouldn’t be able to maneuver.
Instead, they had to use infrared light, whose wavelength is too long for human or fly eyes to pick up on. All the circuitry in those lights generated so much heat that the scientists had to run an air conditioner in the laboratory, forcing the researchers to dress warmly in already chilly Seattle weather.
There were, Dickinson said, “a whole lot of wool hats worn in the lab.”
The scientists watched the flies fly through two crossing laser beams, causing their own shadow to loom large like an impending threat. In response, the flies quickly executed their escape maneuvers, which the scientists were able to capture on camera.
The videos showed that the flies could roll to one side by 90 degrees or even more as they made these turns, almost bringing them upside down. And they could make these turns in less than two wing beats -- which is pretty remarkable, given that they typically flap their wings at 200 times per second, the scientists said.
“So it’d kind of be like a jet fighter pilot with a stick in his or her hand, only had to make a little bit of tiny change in the stick and pshooo, the plane goes off,” Dickinson said. “So we’re very interested in how the brain can control motion on such a fine scale.”
With all this high quality data, the scientists were able to pull out mathematical rules that governed the flies’ decisions on how to make a banked turn, and they then programmed them into a robotic fly that they tested in flowing mineral oil. (Because the robot was much bigger than the flies, the scientists had to adjust the viscosity of the fluid they were "flying" through so the physics would stay about the same, the scientists said.)
The next step, Dickinson said, is to understand the complex neural circuitry linked to the flight muscles that makes these daring maneuvers possible.
|
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 03:14:26
Subject: Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Certainly explains why they are so fething annoying and impossible to swat.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 04:36:03
Subject: Re:Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Imperial Admiral
|
I'm confused. How did they think they turned before making the shocking revelation that they bank? Of course they bank. It's the efficient way to turn in the air.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 05:12:58
Subject: Re:Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
|
I think its the speed and complexity of the turn that is fascinating them, not the fact they make a particular maneuver.
|
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 05:36:54
Subject: Re:Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Imperial Admiral
|
Grey Templar wrote:I think its the speed and complexity of the turn that is fascinating them, not the fact they make a particular maneuver.
They're explaining pretty simple flight dynamics in awestruck terms, and they used the phrase "fighter jet plane." I think they might have been janitors masquerading as scientists.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 05:53:46
Subject: Re:Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
Tied to a bedpost in an old motel, confused and naked.
|
I knew the military had aliens in it.
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 10:24:25
Subject: Re:Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Camouflaged Zero
|
Seaward wrote:I'm confused. How did they think they turned before making the shocking revelation that they bank? Of course they bank. It's the efficient way to turn in the air.
For an object as small as flies with insect wings "flying" in the air is more akin to swimming through a viscous liquid. The lift and drag of their wings and bodies relies much more on vortices; interesting to see them sometimes performing similar maneuvers as a much larger fixed-wing aircraft. I imagine with wings on the left and right side of a fly their ability to accelerate sideways is worse than in the other directions and therefore a rotation around one of the other axes prior to a rapid emergency turn makes sense though.
Also interesting but obviously no shocking revelation to see that only a rather limited number of neurons is enough to control the flight of a fly. Maybe it won't be too long until a biological or semiconductor neural net controls our drones as a kind of auto-pilot.
|
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/13 11:21:33
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 11:53:14
Subject: Re:Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Imperial Admiral
|
Minx wrote:For an object as small as flies with insect wings "flying" in the air is more akin to swimming through a viscous liquid.
Why's that?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 13:41:27
Subject: Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Camouflaged Zero
|
Seaward wrote: Minx wrote:For an object as small as flies with insect wings "flying" in the air is more akin to swimming through a viscous liquid.
Why's that?
Effects due to the (low) viscosity of air are of a similar order of magnitude as the tiny forces exerted on air by a fly and thus become important or even dominant factors in describing the fluid dynamics of insect flight. Tiny vortices forming around the wings carry a sizable portion of the energy of the whole insect-air-system and govern the dynamic of the insect whereas for larger objects they become only higher order corrections, e.g. a slight change of drag.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 14:24:04
Subject: Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Minx wrote: Seaward wrote: Minx wrote:For an object as small as flies with insect wings "flying" in the air is more akin to swimming through a viscous liquid.
Why's that?
Effects due to the (low) viscosity of air are of a similar order of magnitude as the tiny forces exerted on air by a fly and thus become important or even dominant factors in describing the fluid dynamics of insect flight. Tiny vortices forming around the wings carry a sizable portion of the energy of the whole insect-air-system and govern the dynamic of the insect whereas for larger objects they become only higher order corrections, e.g. a slight change of drag.
Can confirm this. At small sizes and low speeds aerodynamics change quite a bit. I don't really know much about it (only an undergraduate degree here, they don't teach us the really weird stuff) but most insects fly much differently than aircraft. Look up the full explanation to that annoying "bumblebee shouldn't be able to fly" story if you want to know more (citizen).
|
Like watching other people play video games (badly) while blathering about nothing in particular? Check out my Youtube channel: joemamaUSA!
BrianDavion wrote:Between the two of us... I think GW is assuming we the players are not complete idiots.
Rapidly on path to becoming the world's youngest bitter old man. |
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 18:00:52
Subject: Re:Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Imperial Admiral
|
Interesting. I would've thought the fundamentals would remain the same regardless of size.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 18:32:00
Subject: Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
|
Can they fire missiles?
|
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/13 18:35:07
Subject: Re:Fruit flies: fighter jets of the skies
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Seaward wrote:Interesting. I would've thought the fundamentals would remain the same regardless of size.
Really it mostly does. It's just in incredibly weird cases (like inch long insects) that the basic theories totally break down. Even micro UAVs fly pretty much like full sized airplanes, although anybody who has piloted RC planes can attest that the way you control them doesn't always work the same, although that is mostly since control surfaces are massively over-scaled relative to the smaller size of the craft rather than any fundamental difference in aerodynamics.
|
Like watching other people play video games (badly) while blathering about nothing in particular? Check out my Youtube channel: joemamaUSA!
BrianDavion wrote:Between the two of us... I think GW is assuming we the players are not complete idiots.
Rapidly on path to becoming the world's youngest bitter old man. |
|
|
 |
 |
|
|