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With all the talk of the new IG (Astra Militarium), many people seem slightly disappointed that the codex isnt as overpowered as they hoped. I know I am, but maybe this is a good thing? It seems that balanced codex releases are the rule with new releases. Even though I my self am a guard player, I find this codex is in a good place. Im going to have to earn my victories, and never be at a disadvantage because of a weak codex. With all the hysteria titans, allies, datasheets and supplements cause, I think this book along with:

Dark Angels
Grey Knights
Space Marines
Tyranids

Really preserve the feeling 40k has always had for me. I regularly turn down playing taudar or FMC circus because they simply arent fun to play against. With this new IG book I doubt anyone would throw a fit to play against the new gaurd, and I think that is something to be happy about.

I think disappointed people should wait for blobs shooting with precision shots or ignore cover etc On the other hand, I have seen some people raging "Great, Tau, Eldar and now IG, good work stupid GW!", so...prbably both sides of one coin

I think its good codex. Not absurdly out of hand like Eldar and certainly not weak. As you said...balanced

 thekyle1231 wrote:
With all the talk of the new IG (Astra Militarium), many people seem slightly disappointed that the codex isnt as overpowered as they hoped.

Actually it seems only a few people are disappointed at that. Most people are disappointed at the removal of units and odd changes that don't really benefit it and things that should have been changed but weren't and no new interesting sexy toys to play with.

Still not as bad as the Tyranid release, though one thing the Tyranid release had over the IG release was a couple of cool new kits (obviously that's subjective, but the kits the new IG kits I've found very underwhelming).

Also, you aren't going to convince too many people how good the IG codex is by comparing it to the likes of Dark Angels and Tyranids, lol.

Lastly... did this really need another thread? We already have 2 threads on the front page of the 40k general discussion forum about the merits of the IG codex.

I agree entirely, OP. This codex is one step closer to proving that Eldar and Tau are 'above average' anomalies and the likes of SM, DA, Nids and non-screamerstar Demons are the norm, rather than being underpowered.

I agree as well. Eldar and Tau are mistakes, that should be correctly swiftly.
Hopefully in the form of a FAQ (which is unlikely, but anyway)

I agree, and I'd add CSM to the list. If you can get past the hyperventilation about the helldrake, it's a likewise well put-together codex and, even with said helldrake isn't that different in power level.

If balancing the codices is GW's intention, they've been doing a pretty good job at it, the blatant exceptions notwithstanding.

Honestly, I don't find Eldar to be a actual mistake either.

Yes they can get obnoxiously stupid, but it's typically in the same vein that Chaos Daemons get obnoxiously stupid - by going out of your to abuse the stupid combos and/or spam the best guns.
An Eldar army for example that only fields a couple Serpents with proper-sized squads (ie: not minimum 5 man squads) and/or doesn't dump 500-600+ pts into a JetSeer Council is a challenging yet still fun army to face.
Their worst excess comes when they go out of their way to field 4-5+ Serpents, Scatter Lasers out the wazoo, and/or bring along their Deathstar JetSeer council w/Baron to tank everything on a re-rolled 2++.

The same with Daemons... The Grimoire is fine when it's not being abused for the 2++ (re-rolls or no), nor are FMC's obnoxious when there's only a couple of them. (not to mention that Flying Circus is simply being lazy, because Daemons have a pretty decent Heavy section anyways!)
The only two Daemons lists people harp about are Fatey's Fantastical Flying Circus and/or the coma-inducing boringness of Screamerstar.



I have a feeling that IG will end up alongside both Chaos Daemons & Eldar in way. They'll end up being bemoaned as OP/God Tier books by many, but when you actually take the time to dissect the real problems, it'll come down to a case of abusing 2-4 real 'steals' in list construction, coupled alongside allies abuses.

The only really borked book thus far in 6th is Tau, and that's because they get to basically ignore half the BRB rules. (on top of being able to spam crazy units & allies abuses)

Experiment 626 wrote:


The only really borked book thus far in 6th is Tau, and that's because they get to basically ignore half the BRB rules. (on top of being able to spam crazy units & allies abuses)

If Eldar and Daemons aren't broken because you could just take the non-optimal options, why is Tau? The exact same principle applies to everyone.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 thekyle1231 wrote:


though one thing the Tyranid release had over the IG release was a couple of cool new kits (obviously that's subjective, but the kits the new IG kits I've found very underwhelming).

I remember proedicting that in terms of "new goodies" the IG codex proably wouldn't bring us too much over a year ago when chatting with a buddy of mine. as I told him "The Ig's pretty solid now and has just about every roll you can think of filled. I can't imagine any new units would be big and exciting"


as it is the new units consist of, another APC, (I suppose this is GW's response to people asking for autocanon chimerias) and the Wyvren, which might be a fun an intreasting choice to clear out blobs, but by and alrge isn't exactly exciting. it's basicly a "better whirlwind"

thing is I can't really think of anything the IG NEEDS

I haven't seen a single person wish the new IG book was more powerful, only that it didn't outright remove so much stuff (muh Al'Raheim, muh Merbo.), and that's a fair criticism to make, because they're gone for no reason other than GW's sheer greed.

Personally, I think the book is fine, balance wise. A much, much better release than the 'Nid release.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:


The only really borked book thus far in 6th is Tau, and that's because they get to basically ignore half the BRB rules. (on top of being able to spam crazy units & allies abuses)

If Eldar and Daemons aren't broken because you could just take the non-optimal options, why is Tau? The exact same principle applies to everyone.

Because bias, that's why. He's trying to take the heat off of armies that he most likely plays by taking advantage of the huge, raging hate boner everyone's had for Tau for the past 13 years.

 thekyle1231 wrote:
With all the talk of the new IG (Astra Militarium), many people seem slightly disappointed that the codex isnt as overpowered as they hoped.

That's not why people are disappointed with it. Really, it isn't.

The problem is that the new additions are underwhelming, being largely either redundant and ugly (Taurox), or, in the case of the Wyvern, potentially horrifically broken but replacing a perfectly servicable unit that was removed. The codex removed a huge number of units, about half a dozen characters, 3 tanks, and an infantry unit. Granted not all were used, but some were and such capabilities are not easily replicated by other units. The kicker is they weren't removed for any balance reasons or anything, but rather just because they didn't have either a Finecast or Plastic kit for them.

Meanwhile, many units that didn't really need nerfs got nerfed (the poor Hydra especially) while other units that plainly needed some help didn't get it (Heavy Weapon Squads) and other units that got some changes that look nice but really didn't address their core issues (Stormtroopers/Scions).

On top of that we got a bunch of renaming and some truly awful writing and fluff. Schoolmasters killing unruly students with hammers, building dead unruly students into walls, faux-latin replacing almost every proper noun, etc.

TL;DR got new units to fill roles that didn't need filling, removed a large number of units just because they didn't have plastic kits, several units that had no reason to be nerfed got nerfed, most units that needed help didn't get what they needed, and now half the fluff in the new books reads like either bad harry potter fanfic or tries so hard to be grimdark it comes off like something you'd read of the Dark Eldar.

Yeah but the idea of balancing isn't to make really crappy units then really really amazing units. That's not balanced because then someone just doesn't take the crappy units.

I think they did fine with the Armoured Sentinel buff. I always loved those little chicken boxes on skinny legs, but noone ever fielded them. Now they might see some use, which is nice because to me they are one of the most iconic IG designs along with Chimera, Basilisk and Leman Russ.

GW and balanced in the same sentence?

LoL

In any case the main diappointments is that the Book felt the need to strip out a lot of models for what is quite blatantly a "buy our new Imperial Armor/Dataslate/Supplement" cashgrab, and that the new units are either disappointing (Taurox) or potentially broken but got rid of perfectly serviceable units for aforementioned cash grab.

It was also fairly arbitrary with the buffs, nerfs, and leave alones.

The Hydra; which was already down on it's luck, got nerfed even harder for no reason, the Ogryns had none of their problems fixed, the special characters who survived seemed to have been nerfed across the board (rest in piece tactical genius), but the buffs seem to mostly be fair, though some units who needed buffs (Banewolves, Rough Riders, Devil Dogs) either got left alone, got meaningless buffs, or actually got nerfed (why exactly did Devil Dogs need a price bump?)

The fliers got an admittedly needed pricefix, so some nerfs were handed out fairly.

It's a major step up from the Tyranid codex but it could have been better.

Overall I like it but am worried that the Tyranid codex has set a bad precedent of GW stripping out options from codexes so that you'll have to buy Dataslates, Supplements, and Forgeworld to have them back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 thekyle1231 wrote:
With all the talk of the new IG (Astra Militarium), many people seem slightly disappointed that the codex isnt as overpowered as they hoped.

That's not why people are disappointed with it. Really, it isn't.

The problem is that the new additions are underwhelming, being largely either redundant and ugly (Taurox), or, in the case of the Wyvern, potentially horrifically broken but replacing a perfectly servicable unit that was removed. The codex removed a huge number of units, about half a dozen characters, 3 tanks, and an infantry unit. Granted not all were used, but some were and such capabilities are not easily replicated by other units. The kicker is they weren't removed for any balance reasons or anything, but rather just because they didn't have either a Finecast or Plastic kit for them.

Meanwhile, many units that didn't really need nerfs got nerfed (the poor Hydra especially) while other units that plainly needed some help didn't get it (Heavy Weapon Squads) and other units that got some changes that look nice but really didn't address their core issues (Stormtroopers/Scions).

On top of that we got a bunch of renaming and some truly awful writing and fluff. Schoolmasters killing unruly students with hammers, building dead unruly students into walls, faux-latin replacing almost every proper noun, etc.

TL;DR got new units to fill roles that didn't need filling, removed a large number of units just because they didn't have plastic kits, several units that had no reason to be nerfed got nerfed, most units that needed help didn't get what they needed, and now half the fluff in the new books reads like either bad harry potter fanfic or tries so hard to be grimdark it comes off like something you'd read of the Dark Eldar.

Oh yes and the fluff is some of the worst in any codex. It's not only poorly written but is also a shining example of pointless grimderp for it's own sake.

So far, I like the new book. I do miss Marbo and the Penal squads, plus the fluff is horrible or in some cases non-existent. Rough Riders and both Sentinel variants are squeezed onto a single page, why?

It's also hard to call any codex "balanced" (externally at least) now. All the other armies are unbalanced relative to each other... so how can a new army be balanced relative to them? You're either unbalanced bad, unbalanced middle of the road or unbalanced powerful.

Internally you can call something balanced or not, and I suppose the IG codex isn't terrible in that department, certainly not as bad as Tyranids, it does seem like there's a few underwhelming choices, but doesn't really seem to be any auto-takes either.

About the Enginseer:

Awaken the Machine can only be used on an AStra Militarum vehicle but Blessing of the Omnissiah works on friendly vehicles. Do you think that this is a mistake? Or is it meant to be like this?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
...it does seem like there's a few underwhelming choices, but doesn't really seem to be any auto-takes either.

That first thing kinda baffles me that you mentioned it because all it makes me want to do is ask "what codex doesn't have a few underwhelming choices?". Even the powerful Tau and stupid cheesy OP (and whatever people cry about them) Eldar do have things you'll most likely never see on the table.

As for the auto-takes.. the Vendetta, although people cry because of it's now rightfully balanced is still one of the best flyers around with the TL lascans great at dealing with both flyers and tanks on the ground. Not to mention the 2 LR Punisher squadron with tank commander as single HQ slot or Manticores that eat heavy armour(and pretty much everything else) for breakfast.

Chaospling wrote:
About the Enginseer:

Awaken the Machine can only be used on an AStra Militarum vehicle but Blessing of the Omnissiah works on friendly vehicles. Do you think that this is a mistake? Or is it meant to be like this?

Sounds like it was intended. He only knows how to awaken the machines he's working with available to the Guard while the blessing can be bestowed even upon infidel machines!

Chaospling wrote:
About the Enginseer:

Awaken the Machine can only be used on an AStra Militarum vehicle but Blessing of the Omnissiah works on friendly vehicles. Do you think that this is a mistake? Or is it meant to be like this?

Considering that the blessing is simply the main repair, I think it is, most other tech based units can repair allied vehicles.

 Klerych wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
...it does seem like there's a few underwhelming choices, but doesn't really seem to be any auto-takes either.

That first thing kinda baffles me that you mentioned it because all it makes me want to do is ask "what codex doesn't have a few underwhelming choices?". Even the powerful Tau and stupid cheesy OP (and whatever people cry about them) Eldar do have things you'll most likely never see on the table.

And you don't see a problem with that?

Just because other codices have underwhelming choices doesn't mean that's a good state of being.

As for the auto-takes.. the Vendetta, although people cry because of it's now rightfully balanced is still one of the best flyers around with the TL lascans great at dealing with both flyers and tanks on the ground. Not to mention the 2 LR Punisher squadron with tank commander as single HQ slot or Manticores that eat heavy armour(and pretty much everything else) for breakfast.

I don't really consider those auto-takes. Maybe the Vendetta, just because it's really the best anti-air unit IG have that doesn't suck at everything else... it's mostly because the Hydra sucks that the Vendetta is so desirable. If the Hydra didn't suck or we had some other non-FW anti-air options, I'd totally run without Vendettas. I actually plan on getting a Vulture and if my opponent doesn't mind using FW, I'll drop the Vendettas in exchange for the Vultures.

The Punishers are good... but they're still 300+pts worth of short ranged tanks and Punisher cannons have never blown me away. I don't consider them auto-take.

Manticores, again, good, but at 170pts I don't consider them auto-take.

Some stuff changed, like the price for the Chimera went up. But, they get gun arrays, so that's OK.
Side armour looks to have improved on most vehicles, too.

I miss the option to take a Primaris psyker as a cheap HQ, but command squads are cheap enough.

 Vaktathi wrote:
That's not why people are disappointed with it. Really, it isn't.

The problem is that the new additions are underwhelming, being largely either redundant and ugly (Taurox), or, in the case of the Wyvern, potentially horrifically broken but replacing a perfectly servicable unit that was removed. The codex removed a huge number of units, about half a dozen characters, 3 tanks, and an infantry unit. Granted not all were used, but some were and such capabilities are not easily replicated by other units. The kicker is they weren't removed for any balance reasons or anything, but rather just because they didn't have either a Finecast or Plastic kit for them.

Meanwhile, many units that didn't really need nerfs got nerfed (the poor Hydra especially) while other units that plainly needed some help didn't get it (Heavy Weapon Squads) and other units that got some changes that look nice but really didn't address their core issues (Stormtroopers/Scions).

On top of that we got a bunch of renaming and some truly awful writing and fluff. Schoolmasters killing unruly students with hammers, building dead unruly students into walls, faux-latin replacing almost every proper noun, etc.

TL;DR got new units to fill roles that didn't need filling, removed a large number of units just because they didn't have plastic kits, several units that had no reason to be nerfed got nerfed, most units that needed help didn't get what they needed, and now half the fluff in the new books reads like either bad harry potter fanfic or tries so hard to be grimdark it comes off like something you'd read of the Dark Eldar.

Sometimes I wonder why I even post on these boards at all when you cover everything I would say perfectly.

 Skinnereal wrote:

Side armour looks to have improved on most vehicles, too.

On what? As far as I can see, side armour is unchanged on all vehicles.

IG are going to be very powerful. In games with FW, I won't be shocked at all if it turns out they're utterly broken (if you thought cheap artillery was bad, try twin linked ignores cover artillery or the manticore rockets with ignores cover). The complaints are more a lack of flavour than anything else; lots of options missing from old books.

Eyjio wrote:
manticore rockets with ignores cover

Manticores don't ignore cover?

Deathstrike and the wyvern seem stupidly broken, I like the removal of the 'auto include' sly marbo for future DLC exploitation.

In short: mediocre and further reinforces my giving up on GW.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:

Side armour looks to have improved on most vehicles, too.

On what? As far as I can see, side armour is unchanged on all vehicles.

I thought the Chimera was 12/10/10, and now has 12 on the sides...

[Update: I just downloaded the epub codex, and it's 12/10/10 still]

 Skinnereal wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:

Side armour looks to have improved on most vehicles, too.

On what? As far as I can see, side armour is unchanged on all vehicles.

I thought the Chimera was 12/10/10, and now has 12 on the sides...

Nope, still 10 on the sides for Chimeras. 12 on the sides for Hellhound variants, but that was always the case.

 Soteks Prophet wrote:
Deathstrike and the wyvern seem stupidly broken, I like the removal of the 'auto include' sly marbo for future DLC exploitation.

In short: mediocre and further reinforces my giving up on GW.

How are those two tanks broken at all? The deathstrike is ok but not competitive in the slightest, and the wyvern is pretty good but not broken.