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I'm a fan of the new IG codex. Sad to see Marbo retired, but you can still build all of the old lists, better (IMHO), plus lots of new ones.

Plopping a primarus Psycher or 3 in a CCS or PCS behind a 50 man IG blob squad, behind a Aegins Defense line, tossing around blessings and orders...

FRF, SRF for 150 twin-linked shots to anyone dumb enough to get within double tap range? LO-Mother fething- L!

Vendetta got the needed nerfing, but not de-fanged.

Leman Russ Tanks are still viable, especially with HQ slot Tank Commanders. They can do Armored Battle Group better (IMHO) than the Armored Battle Group.

Exciting!

 Ailaros wrote:
I agree, and I'd add CSM to the list. If you can get past the hyperventilation about the helldrake, it's a likewise well put-together codex and, even with said helldrake isn't that different in power level.

If balancing the codices is GW's intention, they've been doing a pretty good job at it, the blatant exceptions notwithstanding.

So they're good at balance, if you overlook all the unbalanced stuff?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
I agree, and I'd add CSM to the list. If you can get past the hyperventilation about the helldrake, it's a likewise well put-together codex and, even with said helldrake isn't that different in power level.

If balancing the codices is GW's intention, they've been doing a pretty good job at it, the blatant exceptions notwithstanding.

So they're good at balance, if you overlook all the unbalanced stuff?

Considering the only thing they have thats pretty good is the heldrake, yes.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
manticore rockets with ignores cover

Manticores don't ignore cover?

And their artillery isn't TL either, but it all can be with orders and psychic powers.

Eyjio wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
manticore rockets with ignores cover

Manticores don't ignore cover?

And their artillery isn't TL either, but it all can be with orders and psychic powers.

What psychic powers and orders? You can't give orders to a vehicle and the the only psychic power that comes to mind for ignores cover is cast on the psyker themselves and affects their unit, since a psyker can't join a Manticore, no ignores cover.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
What psychic powers and orders? You can't give orders to a vehicle and the the only psychic power that comes to mind for ignores cover is cast on the psyker themselves and affects their unit, since a psyker can't join a Manticore, no ignores cover.

Tank Commanders can issue orders to his own unit, but they don't give TL or ignore cover.

 Skinnereal wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
What psychic powers and orders? You can't give orders to a vehicle and the the only psychic power that comes to mind for ignores cover is cast on the psyker themselves and affects their unit, since a psyker can't join a Manticore, no ignores cover.

Tank Commanders can issue orders to his own unit, but they don't give TL or ignore cover.

They also won't be in a unit of manticores lol

You know, I would have sworn that the manticore platform was artillery, but apparently it's also a vehicle. Never mind. Still very strong with TL S9 AP" 7" blasts at 145 points regardless.

Eyjio wrote:
You know, I would have sworn that the manticore platform was artillery, but apparently it's also a vehicle. Never mind. Still very strong with TL S9 AP" 7" blasts at 145 points regardless.

A manticore doesn't do that either.

It's S10 AP4 D3 large blasts per missile.

Neither is it twin linked.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
You know, I would have sworn that the manticore platform was artillery, but apparently it's also a vehicle. Never mind. Still very strong with TL S9 AP" 7" blasts at 145 points regardless.

A manticore doesn't do that either.

It's S10 AP4 D3 large blasts per missile.

Neither is it twin linked.

The Manticore platform that is an Imperial Armour unit is an Artillery (so it can receive orders and it can be joined by Primaris Psykers) and it has S9 AP1 Massive Blast missiles as stock armament.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
You know, I would have sworn that the manticore platform was artillery, but apparently it's also a vehicle. Never mind. Still very strong with TL S9 AP" 7" blasts at 145 points regardless.

A manticore doesn't do that either.

It's S10 AP4 D3 large blasts per missile.

Neither is it twin linked.

The Manticore platform that is an Imperial Armour unit is an Artillery (so it can receive orders and it can be joined by Primaris Psykers) and it has S9 AP1 Massive Blast missiles as stock armament.

Which IA is that in? The Manticore platform in the Aeronautica book and IA1 v2 is still listed as a Vehicle (immobile).

 AtoMaki wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
You know, I would have sworn that the manticore platform was artillery, but apparently it's also a vehicle. Never mind. Still very strong with TL S9 AP" 7" blasts at 145 points regardless.

A manticore doesn't do that either.

It's S10 AP4 D3 large blasts per missile.

Neither is it twin linked.

The Manticore platform that is an Imperial Armour unit is an Artillery (so it can receive orders and it can be joined by Primaris Psykers) and it has S9 AP1 Massive Blast missiles as stock armament.

Oh, I thought he was talking about the codex version of the manticore.
Not too familiar with the IA version.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
You know, I would have sworn that the manticore platform was artillery, but apparently it's also a vehicle. Never mind. Still very strong with TL S9 AP" 7" blasts at 145 points regardless.

A manticore doesn't do that either.

It's S10 AP4 D3 large blasts per missile.

Neither is it twin linked.

The Manticore platform that is an Imperial Armour unit is an Artillery (so it can receive orders and it can be joined by Primaris Psykers) and it has S9 AP1 Massive Blast missiles as stock armament.

Which IA is that in? The Manticore platform in the Aeronautica book and IA1 v2 is still listed as a Vehicle (immobile).

There is no manticore artillery. It is just a battery of av10 vehicles.

Did they get rid of the Griffin and Collossus? Was looking to build a Siege artillery company and never liked Bassies.

Col. Dash wrote:
Did they get rid of the Griffin and Collossus? Was looking to build a Siege artillery company and never liked Bassies.

Gone.

R.I.P.

Medusa is also gone.

Getting rid of so many Artillery units is a shame. That was what made IG distinctive.

The Wyvern seems pretty meh and more like a SM unit, I mean how the hell can Arty be twin linked firing barrage?

 scommy wrote:


The Wyvern seems pretty meh and more like a SM unit, I mean how the hell can Arty be twin linked firing barrage?

Some people are raving about it...but then again, if they're that excited about S4 AP6 small blasts, where was all the excitement for spamming mortar HWTs?

 Blacksails wrote:

 scommy wrote:


The Wyvern seems pretty meh and more like a SM unit, I mean how the hell can Arty be twin linked firing barrage?

Some people are raving about it...but then again, if they're that excited about S4 AP6 small blasts, where was all the excitement for spamming mortar HWTs?

The wyvern is the equivalent of four mortars, twin linked, with re roll on wounds. Use it, and you'll never not use it again.

 Blacksails wrote:

 scommy wrote:


The Wyvern seems pretty meh and more like a SM unit, I mean how the hell can Arty be twin linked firing barrage?

Some people are raving about it...but then again, if they're that excited about S4 AP6 small blasts, where was all the excitement for spamming mortar HWTs?

Primarily because mortar HWT's cost 92% of what a Wyvern costs, while the Wyvern delivers 200% the average number of wounds a mortar team (assuming an equal number of hits per blast) does between the extra blast and rerolls of failed wounds, and that's *without* factoring in the fact that the Wyvern is Twin Linked (giving it a greater average number of hits) and Ignores Cover, and also while not having to worry about a single S6 shot killing one-third of the unit and making the rest run off the board.

A Wyvern will get more hits, with more blasts, and have better chance of wounding, while ignoring cover saves, and not facing the quite the same problems with S6+ weaponry and Ld7, plus if needs be it can move much more effectively. The only downside is that the Wyvern is a non-scoring HS unit instead of a scoring troops unit.

It'll take a lot of convincing to make me believe my heavy slots are worth filling with S4 AP6, no matter how accurate it may be.

 Blacksails wrote:
It'll take a lot of convincing to make me believe my heavy slots are worth filling with S4 AP6, no matter how accurate it may be.

Similar to Thudd Guns, it's something you'd build a list around really rather than just take in a generalist list I think. In which case, it could be very effective.

S4 with Shred is better against T3 than S6 and only very slightly less effective against T4 than S6 and notably more effective than S5. In terms of wound output on T3/4 troops, it'd be better to think of it not as S4/shred but S6, just lacking the obvious usefulness against higher T things and AV units than S6 would be. Once you starting thinking of it that way, the paltry S4 AP6 isn't quite as lame as it first appears.

A battery of three in one HS slot is something that would be glorious for mashing up disembarked and clumped units and the like, an excellent muppet mower indeed, while still leaving two HS slots free for Russ tanks or Manticores. Just imagine an enemy unit disembarking to lay some hurt on you, only to get 12 blasts drooped on it, rerolling basically everything without needing LoS, from across the board, and forcing a pinning test on any survivors, for less than 200pts. It wouldn't be at all unreasonable to potentially wipe out a full MEQ squad with one round of fire that way, and anything lighter certainly isn't going to be sticking around.

See, I'd be sold on the Wyvern if it was Elite, but heavy...

I get the tons of wounds thing, but my heavy slots are for real hitting power.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
It'll take a lot of convincing to make me believe my heavy slots are worth filling with S4 AP6, no matter how accurate it may be.

Similar to Thudd Guns, it's something you'd build a list around really rather than just take in a generalist list I think. In which case, it could be very effective.

S4 with Shred is better against T3 than S6 and only very slightly less effective against T4 than S6 and notably more effective than S5. In terms of wound output on T3/4 troops, it'd be better to think of it not as S4/shred but S6, just lacking the obvious usefulness against higher T things and AV units than S6 would be. Once you starting thinking of it that way, the paltry S4 AP6 isn't quite as lame as it first appears.

A battery of three in one HS slot is something that would be glorious for mashing up disembarked and clumped units and the like, an excellent muppet mower indeed, while still leaving two HS slots free for Russ tanks or Manticores. Just imagine an enemy unit disembarking to lay some hurt on you, only to get 12 blasts drooped on it, rerolling basically everything without needing LoS, from across the board, and forcing a pinning test on any survivors, for less than 200pts. It wouldn't be at all unreasonable to potentially wipe out a full MEQ squad with one round of fire that way, and anything lighter certainly isn't going to be sticking around.

Hmm I gotta agree with you 3 Wyverns in 1 unit does look rather compelling. Suddenly that model does not so dorky

Btw: If a Wyvern fires its mortar(s), can it fire its heavy bolter as well in same turn?

 Blacksails wrote:
See, I'd be sold on the Wyvern if it was Elite, but heavy...

I get the tons of wounds thing, but my heavy slots are for real hitting power.

yeah but the thing is even if you take a trio of Wyvrens you can still take 6 LRs. and thats assuming you don't wanna take a tank commander or two.

 scommy wrote:


Btw: If a Wyvern fires its mortar(s), can it fire its heavy bolter as well in same turn?

They are not Ordnance so I don't see why not. Other then that I find it comical so many people are raging and claiming that the Manticore and Deathstrike are OP or Cheese when the fail to take into account:

-The Deathstrike cannot fire Turn 1 and even then needs to roll a 3+ to fire the following turn. Also its mounted upon a 12-10-10 chasis so its not exactly the hardest thing to kill.

-The Manticore is the still the exact same as it was in the old book as far as I can tell so again don't see why people are so up in arms about it now, its still the same so get over it.

Overall the new Astra Militarium book for the most part can be summed up with point changes, dropping units without models and adding a few new kits to replace the ones dropped. Either way I am loving the new book, it seems very solid with a lot of flexibility to run different styles of IG armies, which I hope will become even better with the release of the rumored Data Slates/Supplemental Codexes for the other IG Regiments.

 gmaleron wrote:

 scommy wrote:


Btw: If a Wyvern fires its mortar(s), can it fire its heavy bolter as well in same turn?

They are not Ordnance so I don't see why not. Other then that I find it comical so many people are raging and claiming that the Manticore and Deathstrike are OP or Cheese when the fail to take into account:

.

Thanks for that. I once had a guy insisting my old Griffon could not fire its heavy bolter as well as the mortar.

 scommy wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 scommy wrote:


Btw: If a Wyvern fires its mortar(s), can it fire its heavy bolter as well in same turn?

They are not Ordnance so I don't see why not. Other then that I find it comical so many people are raging and claiming that the Manticore and Deathstrike are OP or Cheese when the fail to take into account:

.

Thanks for that. I once had a guy insisting my old Griffon could not fire its heavy bolter as well as the mortar.

The Griffon was Ordnance, so the HB could fire but it'd have to be snapshots.

I am mildly disappointed the Leman Russ didn't get a new "Lumbering Behemoth" that allowed it to fire it's other guns normally even if it fired ordnance... while I like the fact Leman Russes got cheaper, I think the standard LRMBT is a bit too expensive at the moment.

Not all russes git cheaper. I updated my army list last night, most of the troop choices remained the same. Command Hq cost more and my exterminator dropped in price and my demolisher was the same as before.

All in all the changes in points allowed me to swap a heavy bolter for a lascannon team. And is a whole 3pts under the old list.

One thing that has annoyed me is the order for 'Take aim!'

"Aiming carefully, the officer bids his men steady themselves and recall page one hundred and nine of the Imperial Infantryman's uplifting primer - the Litany of Accuracy"

Daston wrote:
Not all russes git cheaper. I updated my army list last night, most of the troop choices remained the same. Command Hq cost more and my exterminator dropped in price and my demolisher was the same as before.

The only one that got more expensive is the Demolisher by 5pts, everything else got cheaper or stayed the same. I think the LRMBT and Demolisher are a bit overpriced now.

One thing that has annoyed me is the order for 'Take aim!'

"Aiming carefully, the officer bids his men steady themselves and recall page one hundred and nine of the Imperial Infantryman's uplifting primer - the Litany of Accuracy"

What's wrong with it? Is it not page 109? lol

 Blacksails wrote:

 scommy wrote:


The Wyvern seems pretty meh and more like a SM unit, I mean how the hell can Arty be twin linked firing barrage?

Some people are raving about it...but then again, if they're that excited about S4 AP6 small blasts, where was all the excitement for spamming mortar HWTs?

I realy think that somewhere along the line of writing the codex someone swtiched the S and AP for that one . str 6 ap 4 would have been worth considering , even if it takes half an hour to properly roll that damn thing.