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Looking for some expertise in deciding what direction to go next! Currently I play Beastmen and I'm looking to change things up in painting and play style. I'm not particularly concerned about winning, but it's nice on occasion

I have a group that meets up for Triumph & Treachery once per month, with games between that cycle in escalation from 750-1500 and back again. I've narrowed down a few choices which interest me the most -- but with little experience and limited funding I could use some advice on which direction to take:

Forest Goblins - mainly for the fun factor and Spiders! We have a few Orc players so I'd like to go the Goblin and Trolls route. Not sure how competitive this is or if it'll work.

Tomb Kings - visually and tactically different, plus I love chariots and undead theme.

Dwarves - know very little but the new models have caught my eye. I keep hearing how boring they used to be and I definitely don't want a gun line.

Thoughts and tips appreciated!

First of all: welcome to the forums!

I can only comment on the Goblins part as I rock a full Goblin army myself, but here ya go:

First of all, I would re-consider only taking Forest Goblins as you do not have many choices to pick if going down that route. Would an all-Goblin theme appeal to you? You'd open up a lot more possibilities along with being able to put a semi-decent list out there.

In regards to being competitive - meh. If you play a Goblin army, first of all, you will most likely be playing it for fun. And boy, it is a LOT of fun! No other army is as random as Goblins and that's where the fun comes from. Winning is mostly decided by your dice, but even if you lose, you definitely had a great time - even if it means taking 50+ models from the field at once. Or seeing a Fanatic crash through your own ranks.

Strength-wise, they can do a decent job. They sure can't compete with current top tier armies, but for games against friends, they are a lot of fun.

Of all three choices you gave us, Dwarfs would be the most competitive pick, as gunlines are extremely effective (specifically "corner castles"). On the other hand, as you already stated, they are extremely boring to play. You can, however, play a very different Dwarf army as well - why not take a lot of Dwarf Miners and play a very offensive army that surprises your enemies by suddenly appearing on the battlefield? It sure is a lot less effective than a gunline but after all, it's your army and you want to have fun with it. A gunline definitely isn't much fun (to most players) and it certainly is even less fun for your opponent.

 Sigvatr wrote:
First of all: welcome to the forums!

I can only comment on the Goblins part as I rock a full Goblin army myself, but here ya go:

First of all, I would re-consider only taking Forest Goblins as you do not have many choices to pick if going down that route. Would an all-Goblin theme appeal to you? You'd open up a lot more possibilities along with being able to put a semi-decent list out there.

In regards to being competitive - meh. If you play a Goblin army, first of all, you will most likely be playing it for fun. And boy, it is a LOT of fun! No other army is as random as Goblins and that's where the fun comes from. Winning is mostly decided by your dice, but even if you lose, you definitely had a great time - even if it means taking 50+ models from the field at once. Or seeing a Fanatic crash through your own ranks.

Strength-wise, they can do a decent job. They sure can't compete with current top tier armies, but for games against friends, they are a lot of fun.

Of all three choices you gave us, Dwarfs would be the most competitive pick, as gunlines are extremely effective (specifically "corner castles"). On the other hand, as you already stated, they are extremely boring to play. You can, however, play a very different Dwarf army as well - why not take a lot of Dwarf Miners and play a very offensive army that surprises your enemies by suddenly appearing on the battlefield? It sure is a lot less effective than a gunline but after all, it's your army and you want to have fun with it. A gunline definitely isn't much fun (to most players) and it certainly is even less fun for your opponent.

Definitely open to an all-Goblin army, was just thinking of a Forest theme. I like the randomness of it all, but my big concern is if I will have any chance when a unit of Mournfang or Skullcrushers run around? Doesn't have to be a hard counter, but are there enough tools in the book to give you a fighting (albeit somewhat random) chance in a big fight?

I'm starting to lean towards a Goblin or Dwarf direction -- my only other concern is how static is the new Dwarf book? Do the new units / rules open up a more aggressive play-style with cannons in the back and steel in your face?

I have considered a forest goblin army and my list contains lots of spider riders, several araknaroks, a goblin big boss on giant spider in a unit of trolls. Then whatever else looks fun. I think it would be a fun list and look cool on the table (plus scare away any small children or those afraid of spiders) as well as present some fun challenges.

Dwarfs are very static as they have low movement plus lots of ranged weapons. Goblins have lots of fun/silly warmachines and have good movement so you can sort of do the same things with them as your dwarfs.

 Brotherjanus wrote:
I have considered a forest goblin army and my list contains lots of spider riders, several araknaroks, a goblin big boss on giant spider in a unit of trolls. Then whatever else looks fun. I think it would be a fun list and look cool on the table (plus scare away any small children or those afraid of spiders) as well as present some fun challenges.

Dwarfs are very static as they have low movement plus lots of ranged weapons. Goblins have lots of fun/silly warmachines and have good movement so you can sort of do the same things with them as your dwarfs.

Nice! The more I read about Goblins the more fun they seem.

Would you be willing to post / share that list? Sounds like a good starting point of what I'd like to collect as well

The new Dwarf book is basically the same, but with a few extras on top. Their main playstyle did not change.

Goblins excel at taking out heavily armored units, especially small ones. Fanatics, Mangler Squigs, Doom Divers, Spear Chukkaz are just a few examples of their armor-melting arsenal. War machines are where Goblins kick ass.

Goblins and Dwarfs are two very different armies although the playstyle isn't too different.

If you want to play competitive Goblins, you will play a gunline-ish army. Goblins suck in battles. It's not a question of winning or losing, it's about trying to lose as late as possible. Furthermore, animosity is bad-bad. You do not want your Goblins in charge range of the enemy. Competitive-ish Goblins = full arsenal of war machines and a few 50+ blocks of NG with shortbows, 2 Manglers, Goblin Wolf Chariots and a general bunker just behind your lines to keep moral up. Literally. Special Goblin characters suck hard, Skarsnik is cool and has an awesome model, but it WAY overpowered and unusuable due to his high cost.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The new Dwarf book is basically the same, but with a few extras on top. Their main playstyle did not change.

Goblins excel at taking out heavily armored units, especially small ones. Fanatics, Mangler Squigs, Doom Divers, Spear Chukkaz are just a few examples of their armor-melting arsenal. War machines are where Goblins kick ass.

Goblins and Dwarfs are two very different armies although the playstyle isn't too different.

If you want to play competitive Goblins, you will play a gunline-ish army. Goblins suck in battles. It's not a question of winning or losing, it's about trying to lose as late as possible. Furthermore, animosity is bad-bad. You do not want your Goblins in charge range of the enemy. Competitive-ish Goblins = full arsenal of war machines and a few 50+ blocks of NG with shortbows, 2 Manglers, Goblin Wolf Chariots and a general bunker just behind your lines to keep moral up. Literally. Special Goblin characters suck hard, Skarsnik is cool and has an awesome model, but it WAY overpowered and unusuable due to his high cost.

You've swayed me to the Green Tide

Picked up the Orcs 'n Goblins book today -- sooooo many options! Are Night Goblins the best way to go? Are Skulkers or Snotlings effective at all?

I think you made the right choice going with Gobbos. TK are really tough to play, and I prefer to steer new players away from them. Dwarfs are cool but their style is really boring to a lot of players - if you wanted to play dwarfs, you'd know it already.

As for Goblins, unless you're REALLY set on the forest goblin theme I'd suggest using at least SOME orcs. Otherwise you're going to have some really bad leadership issues. Leadership is a REALLY important aspect of this game, and you ignore it at your own peril. Orc general in a unit with the banner of discipline is your best way to get a solid leadership bubble for your army.

I'd also highly recommend Night Goblins. A big unit of them with nets and fanatics is awesome. Throw in a bunch of your cheap warmachines and some trolls to deal with armour and you're off to the races. Just know that the reason OnG don't win tournaments is because you're bound to have that ONE game where all the random things your army can do will come bite you in the butt. Just embrace the fact that sometimes your green tide will take you for a ride, and enjoy the shenanigans when it happens

Night Goblins are definitely the better choice as they got superior stats and have much more viable options such as netters and fanatics.

Snotlings should only be used as drivers on Snotling Wagons, but then rock. Goblins excel at taking out armored enemies as they got a lot of stuff that downright ignores or drastically weakens enemy armor.

Deployment-wise, I usually deploy my regular blocks (shortbows, 50+ NG) wide to cover my war machines and have 1 leader block in the back, i.e. a block of 30-40 NG with the general (a regular Goblin general for the bonus LD!) and the BSB (Banner of Discipline for re-rollable LD 9) in it. Targetting it with 6th would be awesome for the enemy, but if you carefully deploy the unit, i.e. have your other troops ~11" in front of it, its hard to reach and a suicide mission, more or less. Plus they get LOS! against 6th anyway, allowing for an even saver place behind my boys

I managed to post in the wrong thread =(

 Sigvatr wrote:
Night Goblins are definitely the better choice as they got superior stats and have much more viable options such as netters and fanatics.

Snotlings should only be used as drivers on Snotling Wagons, but then rock. Goblins excel at taking out armored enemies as they got a lot of stuff that downright ignores or drastically weakens enemy armor.

Deployment-wise, I usually deploy my regular blocks (shortbows, 50+ NG) wide to cover my war machines and have 1 leader block in the back, i.e. a block of 30-40 NG with the general (a regular Goblin general for the bonus LD!) and the BSB (Banner of Discipline for re-rollable LD 9) in it. Targetting it with 6th would be awesome for the enemy, but if you carefully deploy the unit, i.e. have your other troops ~11" in front of it, its hard to reach and a suicide mission, more or less. Plus they get LOS! against 6th anyway, allowing for an even saver place behind my boys

Is it better to run the Night Goblins with Shortbows or with Sword & Shield?

Thanks for the deployment tips though! After going through the book I'm giddy with all the options. Definately going to have to place a GW order soon.

What's your opinion on Spider Riders? I was thinking of a small black with a Goblin Warboss on a Gigantic Spider to chase up a flank while the main NG block and Trolls hold the line.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:
I think you made the right choice going with Gobbos. TK are really tough to play, and I prefer to steer new players away from them. Dwarfs are cool but their style is really boring to a lot of players - if you wanted to play dwarfs, you'd know it already.

As for Goblins, unless you're REALLY set on the forest goblin theme I'd suggest using at least SOME orcs. Otherwise you're going to have some really bad leadership issues. Leadership is a REALLY important aspect of this game, and you ignore it at your own peril. Orc general in a unit with the banner of discipline is your best way to get a solid leadership bubble for your army.

Playing Beastmen has made me all too aware of the perils of low leadership bubbles!

That being said, a re-rollable Leadership 8 hasn't caused me too many problems in that army, which is very achievable with a Goblin Warboss and Standard of Discipline. I'd like to stay away from any Orcs as much as possible for thematic / challenge reasons.