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Hi all,

I am playing a game against a new opponent in a few days and he plays a Deathwing list.

I have never played against a DW list, so I thought I would ask for some advice on thing to be warys of and things to look out for.

We will be playing 1500 points and I know that he owns the following.
- Belial
- 5x 5 Deathwing
- Scouts
- Devastators (las and plasma cannons)
-Venerable Dreadnaught
Obviously he won't be bringing it all at this point limit.

As for me, I usually run a 3 wagon list (deff-rollas) and a MAN missile (Trukk) then fill the rest in with Deffkoptas/Dakkajets or some Lootas.

Wagons usually have 2x 20 Shootas and 1x 20 Sluggas or replace the sluggas with 1x 10 Burna squad with Big Mek + KFF

I won't be bringing any Lootas, just because I don't want them left vulnerable to a DS attack and getting wiped out.

Little worried about the amount of bolter fire, but the wagins should keep me safe for a while.

Other than that, what else should I look out for?

I look forward to your comments and input!

Pretty sure he can Deathwing Assault turn 1. I might be wrong though so it's worth a DA player saying for sure.

That's true.

They can DS either turn 1 or 2. He will write it down before the game and bring them in on that turn.

Yes it can be turn one.

He'll get some very good shots in the turn he arrives from deep strike. Find ways to minimize losses, put the backs of wagons to board edge.

You kill the termies by returning fire with every big shoota you can bring in your aresenal after turn one. Bury them in dice.

You might take lootas so he has bait to shoot at that isnt your wagon carrying scoring units. Every wagon that explodes will kill roughly half of the boyz inside.

Belial can be Krumped by a nob with PK.

Don't be afriad to take some meks with Big Shootas in that Burna unit. Big Shootas will be enough dakka take two on every wagon and two in every shoota boy squad. Termies will roll ones.

My buddy ran DW Belial and termies, the low model count makes it easy for you to say, field and DS zagstruk with some success. And I mean to deep strike and krump the scouts or devs, not the termies.

Hell you might even consider a small Snikrot squad with two Big Shootas. He won't have enough offense to deal with everything.

Thanks Risomite,

I hadn't considered using Stormboyz. I think that they will be quite effective as you say getting into those backfield units...

Do you think that it would be better to give the Meganobz TL shootas or Combi-Scorchas??

I think that the TL shootas would be a better option as it would free up points for a few Big Shootas elsewhere..

 B0NES wrote:
Hi all,

I am playing a game against a new opponent in a few days and he plays a Deathwing list.

I have never played against a DW list, so I thought I would ask for some advice on thing to be warys of and things to look out for.

We will be playing 1500 points and I know that he owns the following.
- Belial
- 5x 5 Deathwing
- Scouts
- Devastators (las and plasma cannons)
-Venerable Dreadnaught
Obviously he won't be bringing it all at this point limit.

As for me, I usually run a 3 wagon list (deff-rollas) and a MAN missile (Trukk) then fill the rest in with Deffkoptas/Dakkajets or some Lootas.

Wagons usually have 2x 20 Shootas and 1x 20 Sluggas or replace the sluggas with 1x 10 Burna squad with Big Mek + KFF

I won't be bringing any Lootas, just because I don't want them left vulnerable to a DS attack and getting wiped out.

Little worried about the amount of bolter fire, but the wagins should keep me safe for a while.

Other than that, what else should I look out for?

I look forward to your comments and input!

Does he have 5x 5 man termie squads? Otherwise thats barely half the Points of a 1500 game hes bringing

Greentide! Do it! Its da perfect counter. xD

Deathwing has three problems.

Not enough dakka from not enough models that have the critical weakness of "Bucket of Dice".

Orks have a lot of dakka and a lot of models that can let loose multiple buckets of dice.

Just show up to your next game with near two hundred models in the form of Boyz, Lootaz, and whatever you feel like having in Heavy Support and Fast attack and drown him.

As said DW can deepstrike on Turn 1, also Belial's squad does not scatter. So that might do some damage, but termies pretty much suck in modern meta as they have real low model count (especially DW termies which are expensive) and not enough firepower and are easily overwhelmed with dakka or enough attacks. Unless your friend is really awesome with his 2+ throws, Orks should deal with DW with no problem at all. In fact, I believe I have not beaten Orks with my DW in 3-4 tries.

The only thing I would look-out for is a turn two counter drop. Clearly hes using his devastators for all the anti-armor duties in the army and might choose to expose the gooey center of those wagons turn one. If he can pop a wagon or two turn one, and hes smart enough to stack cyclone missiles on those squads he could bury your horde in twin-linked frag templates.

Granted, stacked termies are vulnerable to horde type armies, but he can easily get FB if you arn't careful. The strength of DW is in providing the whole Hammer to the armies anvil, arriving right where they are needed (strangely enough this strategy is fluffy too). Pure DW lists are a bit gimmicky I think, and as a DA player can promise that it is hardly viable compared to more nuanced builds. That said play conservative until he drops Belial and the boys, once he has his termies exposed bury them in stubber fire and close in for the win.

Distract his units and keep them occupied while working on playing the mission.

Many people will say "throw more boyz" and play a numbers game; however, against a 2+ save, I haven't seen that work effective against the AP - of normal attacks. Yes, your unit of 30 choppa boyz can charge in and kill a decent number initially; however, it'll take ~3 rounds of combat to maybe wipe the entire unit of DWs. Defensive grenades will take away the +1A but not the Furious Charge thankfully. Yet by the time the boyz are fully free again, they are bordering on losing fearless. Running more units of them IS one way to mitigate drop pod lists but after a lengthy combat, Terminators may not fail much.

To that extent, play the mission and push towards the objectives with those blobs as work on keeping the opponent outside of the 3" denial range of the objective. It takes a long time to remove 30 boyz from an objective (unless you're playing with the updated Deathstrike Missile launcher in the new IG book or Tyrannid Biovoires) so use that to your advantage.


Now I seem to be in the minority of people in this thread as my DW opponents in my group seem to do very well with their leadership tests and 2+ saves. In my experiences running 120+ boyz in groups of 30 or 20, assaulting terminators have always ended in a loss for me. Shooting is a bit better due being able to focus more shots and bubble wrapping units. But assaulting MEQ or TEQ is almost an instant loss for my orks.

Thanks for the input guys!

Thoughts on the use of The Burna Wagon? I will probably run 10 Burnas with Big Mek + KFF and Bosspole.

I figured a bunch of S4 layered templates could work welll, as well as D3 hits for overwatch if the Wagon gets assaulted.

Also, the ability to use them as Power Weapons in CC if not used during the shooting phase could work rather well..

Don't forget that Termies are Slow and Purposeful so they can keep pumping rounds into pursuing armies while they keep moving. I would be surprised if you could close with a template weapon with that many points of Dakka Kiting around the board.

That said I think you're on the right track with maximizing the number of hits on these guys. Scope out his army and see if he's rolling with SS/TH mixed into his tactical termies. (If hes rolling all melee then that opens up a whole new can of worms) If he isn't rolling with SS/TH look into stacking AP2 firepower on the board. If he is buffering with SS than youre likely better off with the avalanche of dice method of forcing saves.

If hes rolling with a heavy melee presence with DW Knights or SS/TH Termies than the strategy is less clear. If I were rolling full melee termies I would turn one drop behind LOS blocking terrain then immediately force engages. Since the main danger to termies are massed gunlines I would hide in CC as long as possible. Meanwhile plinking away at unengaged models with my 48" heavy weapons. You will lose combat, no doubt, and it will come down to you out racing him to the objective.If you can put space between your gunline and his melee termies you'll do fine.

Devious wrote:
Don't forget that Termies are Slow and Purposeful so they can keep pumping rounds into pursuing armies while they keep moving. I would be surprised if you could close with a template weapon with that many points of Dakka Kiting around the board.

That said I think you're on the right track with maximizing the number of hits on these guys. Scope out his army and see if he's rolling with SS/TH mixed into his tactical termies. (If hes rolling all melee then that opens up a whole new can of worms) If he isn't rolling with SS/TH look into stacking AP2 firepower on the board. If he is buffering with SS than youre likely better off with the avalanche of dice method of forcing saves.

If hes rolling with a heavy melee presence with DW Knights or SS/TH Termies than the strategy is less clear. If I were rolling full melee termies I would turn one drop behind LOS blocking terrain then immediately force engages. Since the main danger to termies are massed gunlines I would hide in CC as long as possible. Meanwhile plinking away at unengaged models with my 48" heavy weapons. You will lose combat, no doubt, and it will come down to you out racing him to the objective.If you can put space between your gunline and his melee termies you'll do fine.

They're not SnP, they're relentless. Also given that at most they have storm bolters their ranged output is pretty meagre even with heavy weapons like cyclone Missile launchers/plasma cannons since they don't have enough to really make a dent in an Ork army to make a difference. They're more threatening melee wise (at least the DWK are) and being able to contest and claim objectives than anything else.

 Grimskul wrote:

Devious wrote:
Don't forget that Termies are Slow and Purposeful so they can keep pumping rounds into pursuing armies while they keep moving. I would be surprised if you could close with a template weapon with that many points of Dakka Kiting around the board.

That said I think you're on the right track with maximizing the number of hits on these guys. Scope out his army and see if he's rolling with SS/TH mixed into his tactical termies. (If hes rolling all melee then that opens up a whole new can of worms) If he isn't rolling with SS/TH look into stacking AP2 firepower on the board. If he is buffering with SS than youre likely better off with the avalanche of dice method of forcing saves.

If hes rolling with a heavy melee presence with DW Knights or SS/TH Termies than the strategy is less clear. If I were rolling full melee termies I would turn one drop behind LOS blocking terrain then immediately force engages. Since the main danger to termies are massed gunlines I would hide in CC as long as possible. Meanwhile plinking away at unengaged models with my 48" heavy weapons. You will lose combat, no doubt, and it will come down to you out racing him to the objective.If you can put space between your gunline and his melee termies you'll do fine.

They're not SnP, they're relentless. Also given that at most they have storm bolters their ranged output is pretty meagre even with heavy weapons like cyclone Missile launchers/plasma cannons since they don't have enough to really make a dent in an Ork army to make a difference. They're more threatening melee wise (at least the DWK are) and being able to contest and claim objectives than anything else.

My bad you're totally right about the relentless part, I wish they were SnP but they arnt sadly. I totally agree about the melee deathwing being dangerous, and much preferable to a full tactical deathwing army. Preferably I wouldn't role a mono-wing anyways, but if I had to roll DW, DWK are better. I guess just hope he doesn't role DWK!

He has a 3000+ point High Elf army and has just made the move to 40k.

I know that he does not have any DW Knights and no TH/SS combos. I was telling him that these should be the next models to invest in if you're to play a DW army..

I can see the biggest obstacle I may have will most likely be pushing them off objectives

Also pretty sure there are no Assault Termies, but I guess I'll find out tonight!

Don't put anything in a transport. Lay out 50+ orks at maximum spread, bubble wrapping all the dakka you can bring. He can't land within an inch of your models so make a brick and once he lands, swamp him with saves. Against an army with so few models its 6% of the army every time he rolls a 1.

Bring a bunker or aegis to put lootas in. Bubble wrap it. They have to sit through a round of fire then its tarpit time.