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Super Heavy Vehicles = Super vulnerable to Haywire

Now it's been 6 Escalation games against Super Heavy Vehicles (NOT creatures), and in 4 out of 6, the enemy lord of war has imploded from Glances inflicted by Haywire.

Are Super Heavy Vehicles a liability?

I would ask for more information. Specifically, what are you using to get the haywires within range of the super-heavy? Is the super-heavy changing its positioning relative to the rest of the army? Who's going first? Theres lots of variables and information that we just don't have.

The problems with super-heavies is that they are an extremely dense cluster of points, and acouple bad/good rolls can ruin them. However, they are supposed to counter this by having High AV, tons of HP, and lots of firepower. If someone is using a Super-heavy , their list should be specifically tailored to aiding and supporting that super-heavy. If their list is a normal army that just happens to HAVE a super-heavy and they aren't playing to support it, its bound to fail.

No way, the bane of super heavies is necron warrior hordes appearing out of deep striking monoliths. Nothing survives that many glances.

Well, if you're playing against a necron that is liable to do that....go second, and put the super-heavy in reserve. Hopefully the monolith will come on turn first and you get a chance to kill it. That or have an Allied Coteaz IBEY the monolith/warriors

 kir44n wrote:
I would ask for more information. Specifically, what are you using to get the haywires within range of the super-heavy? Is the super-heavy changing its positioning relative to the rest of the army? Who's going first? Theres lots of variables and information that we just don't have.

The problems with super-heavies is that they are an extremely dense cluster of points, and acouple bad/good rolls can ruin them. However, they are supposed to counter this by having High AV, tons of HP, and lots of firepower. If someone is using a Super-heavy , their list should be specifically tailored to aiding and supporting that super-heavy. If their list is a normal army that just happens to HAVE a super-heavy and they aren't playing to support it, its bound to fail.

This is the responsibel party x3 I think it comes to 840, but for whatever it wrecks (5/6, 4 upon arrival), most of it still remains to fight on even after that catastrophe chart

10 x Necron Warrior
2 x Stormetek
in a NIght Scythe


Let me be clear, these statistics only reflect my games against Super Heavy Vehicles. Against Gargantuan Creatures, its been like prison in summer.

Yea my clubs first titan is brought to its knees each time because of 40-60 necrons coming out of a few monoliths.

Its not like the necrons are useless once the titan is dead either.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Yea my clubs first titan is brought to its knees each time because of 40-60 necrons coming out of a few monoliths.

Its not like the necrons are useless once the titan is dead either.

So, for real, tell me. Is the Necron Codex cheesy in Escalation games? I don't want to put anybody out, and I have seen a couple sour-faces lately when I use Haywire for anti-armor...I mean, if I play Necrons, what else am I supposed to do against these monstrosities?

 jasper76 wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Yea my clubs first titan is brought to its knees each time because of 40-60 necrons coming out of a few monoliths.

Its not like the necrons are useless once the titan is dead either.

So, for real, tell me. Is the Necron Codex cheesy in Escalation games? I don't want to put anybody out, and I have seen a couple sour-faces lately when I use Haywire for anti-armor...I mean, if I play Necrons, what else am I supposed to do against these monstrosities?

nah they arent cheese. They are good, but definitely nothing to be worried about. I mean, they can glance vehicles to death pretty well in large amounts, but they can do that regardless of the game type. So you know, if they are gonna look at you funny for using haywire, they are gonna look at you funny for anything.

Im not a necron player though so I cant tell you much more.

Jasper, if that list is the one that's continuously destroying Super-Heavies in your local meta....your super-heavies need to look at some of the fortifications in the Stronghold Assault Book. A bastion + ADL for 2 quad guns should be able to shut the Nightscythe down with interceptor, but its pricy at 225pts. Alternatively you can get the Firestorm Redoubt for 4TL Lascannon shots...but its at BS2 AND you have to shoot the closest flyer. So if he has more than one Nightscythe, you'd be toast

Again, when you using Super-Heavies, support is what the rest of the army is there for. If they aren't taking enough anti-air to stop the nightscythe, they need to retool their lists.

 kir44n wrote:
Jasper, if that list is the one that's continuously destroying Super-Heavies in your local meta....your super-heavies need to look at some of the fortifications in the Stronghold Assault Book. A bastion + ADL for 2 quad guns should be able to shut the Nightscythe down with interceptor, but its pricy at 225pts. Alternatively you can get the Firestorm Redoubt for 4TL Lascannon shots...but its at BS2 AND you have to shoot the closest flyer. So if he has more than one Nightscythe, you'd be toast

Again, when you using Super-Heavies, support is what the rest of the army is there for. If they aren't taking enough anti-air to stop the nightscythe, they need to retool their lists.

I made no claims about those units (three of them in tandem, to be precise) against Stronghold Fortifications. And I'm not responsible for my local meta more than anyone else is.

 jasper76 wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
I would ask for more information. Specifically, what are you using to get the haywires within range of the super-heavy? Is the super-heavy changing its positioning relative to the rest of the army? Who's going first? Theres lots of variables and information that we just don't have.

The problems with super-heavies is that they are an extremely dense cluster of points, and acouple bad/good rolls can ruin them. However, they are supposed to counter this by having High AV, tons of HP, and lots of firepower. If someone is using a Super-heavy , their list should be specifically tailored to aiding and supporting that super-heavy. If their list is a normal army that just happens to HAVE a super-heavy and they aren't playing to support it, its bound to fail.

This is the responsibel party x3 I think it comes to 840, but for whatever it wrecks (5/6, 4 upon arrival), most of it still remains to fight on even after that catastrophe chart

10 x Necron Warrior
2 x Stormetek
in a NIght Scythe


Let me be clear, these statistics only reflect my games against Super Heavy Vehicles. Against Gargantuan Creatures, its been like prison in summer.

Or 5 warriors and 2 storm teks.

Or 5 gauss immortals with 2 storm teks

Necrons are perfectly set up to murder super heavies and knights.

The damn storm teks are troops attached to those units and remain troops/scoring units after making RP even if the unit is wiped out.

They are actually decent dakka against infantry. A single storm tek packs as many S5 shots as 2 rapid fire immortals.

I see a Necron renaissance in 7th ed if the further normalize super heavies and knights.

 schadenfreude wrote:

Necrons are perfectly set up to murder super heavies and knights.

The damn storm teks are troops attached to those units and remain troops/scoring units after making RP even if the unit is wiped out.

They are actually decent dakka against infantry. A single storm tek packs as many S5 shots as 2 rapid fire immortals.

I see a Necron renaissance in 7th ed if the further normalize super heavies and knights.

Exactly dude. The way things are going (this is all IMO) (a) troops are tending to get cheaper, (b) every army is given special warlord traits, artifacts, or other boosts to their primary strength, and (c) Elites, FA, and HS are changing, but not fundamentally...just a couple 10 points here, a couple 20 points there.

Considering what is already in the codex, I doubt its gonna get worse...

If people start bringing that many warriors, heavy bolters start looking good again with their high volume of AP4 fire, but more seriously, if you allow the necron to focus that much fire on your super heavy you have been outplayed by an army that was designed to stop you.

With the new IG codex, it would be pretty cheap to get a nice 50 man conscript squad to wrap around anything. At max spacing each normal size model is 1" + 2" of spacing so 9" square inches. You can fill about 3 square feet of table with a 150 point conscript blob. By the time the enemy has punched a hole in and managed to move in, it your super heavy better have punched a significant hole in the enemy. (Of course if the enemy is relying on many cheap squads of warriors and flyers, you might not have...)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormteks have a 12" range. A list that can't prevent dudes from getting within 12" of the super heavy needs to be re-thought in general.

Mavnas wrote:

Stormteks have a 12" range. A list that can't prevent dudes from getting within 12" of the super heavy needs to be re-thought in general.

They are in night scythes.

Mavnas wrote:
Stormteks have a 12" range. A list that can't prevent dudes from getting within 12" of the super heavy needs to be re-thought in general.

That's exactly why the other above poster said the army should be built around the super heavy. Just throwing it into a list and sending it off on its own expecting it to singlehandedly win the game is the biggest recipe for disaster, regardless of who the opponent is.

Also, people should be aware that bubble wrapping should be done right from deployment against Necrons.
While the most effective method to drop a Storm-tek in range is via Nightscythe with some Gauss troops, there is also a method available to drop them in range of a vehicle on turn 1 (1x Despair-tek with Veil + 2 to 4x Storm-teks). If you're not prepared for it, you could lose your superheavy before your first turn even begins.

[youtube]

 skoffs wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
Stormteks have a 12" range. A list that can't prevent dudes from getting within 12" of the super heavy needs to be re-thought in general.

That's exactly why the other above poster said the army should be built around the super heavy. Just throwing it into a list and sending it off on its own expecting it to singlehandedly win the game is the biggest recipe for disaster, regardless of who the opponent is.

Also, people should be aware that bubble wrapping should be done right from deployment against Necrons.
While the most effective method to drop a Storm-tek in range is via Nightscythe with some Gauss troops, there is also a method available to drop them in range of a vehicle on turn 1 (1x Despair-tek with Veil + 2 to 4x Storm-teks). If you're not prepared for it, you could lose your superheavy before your first turn even begins.

12" bubble wrap will need to go 360 around the giant knight and then it's movement is reduced to 6" so the bubble wrap can keep up. If a knight is not going to use it's speed it's not an assault risk.

<deleted for redundancy>


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 schadenfreude wrote:
[youtube]

 skoffs wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
Stormteks have a 12" range. A list that can't prevent dudes from getting within 12" of the super heavy needs to be re-thought in general.

That's exactly why the other above poster said the army should be built around the super heavy. Just throwing it into a list and sending it off on its own expecting it to singlehandedly win the game is the biggest recipe for disaster, regardless of who the opponent is.

Also, people should be aware that bubble wrapping should be done right from deployment against Necrons.
While the most effective method to drop a Storm-tek in range is via Nightscythe with some Gauss troops, there is also a method available to drop them in range of a vehicle on turn 1 (1x Despair-tek with Veil + 2 to 4x Storm-teks). If you're not prepared for it, you could lose your superheavy before your first turn even begins.

12" bubble wrap will need to go 360 around the giant knight and then it's movement is reduced to 6" so the bubble wrap can keep up. If a knight is not going to use it's speed it's not an assault risk.

Exactly. Plus, if you bring knights with or without bubble wrap (which I assume is troop shields, coward!), you best believe the Transcendent C'Tan will have something to say about dumping a big fat whole in that situation, TWICE, and spoiling your plans. Then you face the Haywire/Tesla/Gauss barrage on Round 2. Meanwhile, Imotek has been pumping every last 1/6 of your unit with D6 Strenght..what is it? 8 against your troops and side armor. Chaos.

There aint nothing wrong with this codex, at least in my in my meta (which is just an Escalation meta, after all). Put it in hard copy and GW's got another sale.


.

 jasper76 wrote:
Super Heavy Vehicles = Super vulnerable to Haywire

Now it's been 6 Escalation games against Super Heavy Vehicles (NOT creatures), and in 4 out of 6, the enemy lord of war has imploded from Glances inflicted by Haywire.

Are Super Heavy Vehicles a liability?

Depends. We play apoc games bimonthly.

Baneblade pattern tanks usually go down rather quickly lasting about one or two rounds.
Its not necessarily haywires or assault in general. These tanks are so big that templates hardly scatter wide enough.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Baneblade pattern tanks usually go down rather quickly lasting about one or two rounds.
Its not necessarily haywires or assault in general. These tanks are so big that templates hardly scatter wide enough.

That in itself seems reasonable - when it's a big as a barn, it ought to be easy to hit! =)

Well necrons are comparable to eldar (not taudar). If vehicle were more prominent (which they are becoming) than people would complain about them more. They are Anti vehicle, like eldar are anti infantry. (their basic troops both have a on a 6 clause). Necrons are strong with the amount of flyers they can bring and have a strong codex, the reason that they are not eldar yet is because since 6th edition is a boots on the ground game necrons haven't had vehicles to kill easily as much, and complete flyers list don't do enough damage. However they can hands down beat any competitive eldar list that relies on vehicles (mechdar). These lists are very popular however they do suffer to toughness 8 monstrous creatures. And the cans cost alot but you have to play them like eldar, fine elegant, blow up select units, than die to return fire.