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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh yeah, totally.
Which is why they should be allowed to mix and match between shields and scythes - so then they can fulfill their intended role properly.

You'd think that the Necrons would be better at destroying Eldar Wraith units when they're so heavily utilized by their archnemeses.

Well, iirc, wraith units were originally created to fight necrons.
There was a bit of lore about it in the 3rd ed book; seems the Necrons, with the assistance of the Void Dragon, were absolutely butchering these Eldar, so the Eldar starting putting souls into suits of wraithbone, and that pushed the necrons back.
With that in mind, it does make some sense that wraithguard and lords are somewhat deadly against crons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, maybe have the shield deflect everything. I find it strange how the guard would just let the bolt rounds hit them instead of, you know, the shield.
Letting things hit the shield is kind of it's job. I mean, you don't see the knights of your trying to block arrows with their teeth, now do you?

I tried that in Chivalry Medieval Warfare, kept on dying for some reason.

Have you tried letting them hit you in the knees? Those soldiers in Skyrim seemed ok afterwards.

Well, the Necrons are devising new sciences and strategies still, so I would think they would have devised at least some counters.

As for your suggestion, I dunno, I hear that causes you to stop being able to adventure like others.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Truth be told, Necrons are the most ripped lumberjacks you will ever see.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh yeah, totally.
Which is why they should be allowed to mix and match between shields and scythes - so then they can fulfill their intended role properly.

I agree. This would make the unit and its management more tactical as well. Still, you'd have to do more to make it a viable pick, mostly reducing its price...and do something about the shield's special rule. It's really bad :/

You know what? I think for my next game, I'm going to ask the guys I play with if I can do that very thing, just so I can see how it works out.
...
But then I've gotta consider:
If I'm going to be playing a unit of mixed Warscythes and Sword+Shields, how many of each would be best?
And how many Lychguard should I be taking in the first place?
I'm going to assume that, regardless of size, the unit should be comprised of about 40% shields.
For starters, I'm thinking unit composition might be-

•5 Lychguard (3x WS, 2x S&S) - 210 pts
•1 Lord (WS, SW, MSS, RO) - 105 pts

Opinions on this theoretical house rule experiment?

I would go shield heavy, personally. 3 shields and 1-2 scythes, with a lord / overlord providing an additional scythe.

As long as you don't go rambo and try to assault a gun line with them, they should be fine. I'm thinking keeping them out of LoS might do the trick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh yeah, totally.
Which is why they should be allowed to mix and match between shields and scythes - so then they can fulfill their intended role properly.

You'd think that the Necrons would be better at destroying Eldar Wraith units when they're so heavily utilized by their archnemeses.

Well, iirc, wraith units were originally created to fight necrons.
There was a bit of lore about it in the 3rd ed book; seems the Necrons, with the assistance of the Void Dragon, were absolutely butchering these Eldar, so the Eldar starting putting souls into suits of wraithbone, and that pushed the necrons back.
With that in mind, it does make some sense that wraithguard and lords are somewhat deadly against crons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, maybe have the shield deflect everything. I find it strange how the guard would just let the bolt rounds hit them instead of, you know, the shield.
Letting things hit the shield is kind of it's job. I mean, you don't see the knights of your trying to block arrows with their teeth, now do you?

I tried that in Chivalry Medieval Warfare, kept on dying for some reason.

Have you tried letting them hit you in the knees? Those soldiers in Skyrim seemed ok afterwards.

Well, the Necrons are devising new sciences and strategies still, so I would think they would have devised at least some counters.

As for your suggestion, I dunno, I hear that causes you to stop being able to adventure like others.

Maybe they already have. Perhaps the Warscythes, Tes labs and MSS were developed to counter wraith units.
Or maybe the wraithguard we see now are more advanced types, created to counter the latest form of anti-wraith counter measure. We don't really know.

An attempt at a 1500 list, using mixed gear Lychguard-

+ HQ + (495pts)
Trazyn - 175
* Harbinger of Eternity (Chronometron) - 40
Necron Overlord (Mindshackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Sempiternal Weave, Warscythe) - 175
* Necron Lord (Mindshackle Scarabs, Resurrection Orb, Sempiternal Weave, Warscythe) - 105

+ Elites + (255pts)
6x Lychguard (3x Warscythes, 3x Sword & Shield) - 255

+ Troops + (415pts)
5x Immortals - 85
5x Warriors (Nightscythe) - 165
5x Warriors (Nightscythe) - 165

+ Fast Attack + (160pts)
4x Scarabs - 60
5x Tomb Blade (Tesla) - 100

+ Heavy Support + (180pts)
Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90

This would put it 5 points over. Not sure what I should change.
I can either exchange one Shield for another Warscythe, or I can change the Immortals to Warriors and bump up the Scarabs with the remaining points.

Drop the Immortals and buff the Scarabs, a squad of 5 basic troops is pretty vulnerable to anythign especially given they are your only actual on-the-board infantry unit despite the LG.

But wouldn't the Tomb Blades, Annihilation Barges, and Scarabs (plus the Lychguard and Immortals) be enough to ensure not getting tabled?

The Nova Open Narrative 40k event has some house rules for every army. I can't find a link to the pdf online now but I have it saved to my pc. Here are the rules for the Necrons:

5.10.1 All Factions – Necrons
Monoliths are immune to the effects of the Lance, Melta and Armorbane special rules.

Warrior Phalanx: If at any point a squad of Warriors numbers 11-15 models, their armor save is a 3+ instead of a 4+. If at any point a squad of Warriors numbers 16-20 models, their armor save is a 2+ instead of a 4+. Due to casualties, reanimation protocols and the like, this may result in the armor save for a unit of warriors changing multiple times during a game.

Immortal Phalanx: If at any point a squad of Immortals numbers 6-10 models, their armor save is a 2+ instead of a 3+. Due to casualties, reanimation protocols and the like, this may result in the armor save for a unit of Immortals changing multiple times during a game.

A Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor may never inflict more than 4 hits to its primary target in a single shooting phase.

Necron Scythe Airframes (Night Scythes and Doom Scythes combined) gain the 0-3 restriction.

5.10.2 Humanity – Aspect of Experience – Necrons

Flayed Assault: Necron Flayed Ones arriving via Deep Strike do not suffer mishap as a result of scattering on top of models or impassable terrain. Reduce their scatter distance until they can be safely placed. Further, enemy units may only Snap Fire at Necron Flayed Ones until the following Necron turn.

Necron Tomb Blades gain the Outflank special rule and may select one of their available upgrade options for free.

5.10.3 The Virtue – Aspect of Implacability – Necrons

Lychguard and Praetorians – Both units may equip their models with mixed weapon loadouts (change the ruling from “all models may replace” to “any model may replace”).

Lychguard and Praetorians – Both units gain the Everliving special rule, and pass their resurrection rolls on a 4+.

Praetorians gain a 5+ invulnerable save

How it works is that you choose one 'aspect' per game, but the army wide rules always apply. My friend and I have incorporated some of these rules into our games. Namely the Flayed One and Lychguard/Praetorian rules because we both love the models (old metal Flayed Ones of course) and these rule addition make sense to us. I'm painting up my Lychguard at the minute so I haven't had a chance to try out these with rules with them yet, but I'm looking forward to it.

Some of these seem a bit much, but it's an interesting start.
Certainly something the guys working on the next codex should look at and take notes.
(Surprised there was nothing for Destroyers, though)

has anyone tried using lychguard with a ghost ark?

you can't deploy them in it, but you can get in turn one and then move 6", and as it's open topped you can assault out of it, so at the very least it'll gain you 6" movement in the first turn (over 2 turns, move 6" then move 6", get out 6" and then charge). if you need to go for 3 turns then their threat range ups dramatically, as the second turn you can move 18" (12" then 6" flat-out). they'll have moved, just before their charge, 38", compared to an absolute maximum (6" runs) of 24". it'll also keep them a bit sheltered from vindicators and makes a use for a ghost ark bought for buffing 20 warriors (IIRC you can buy a ghost ark for a unit that can't fit).

if you deploy the ark sideways, you can turn it and gain another couple of inches that way too. it's a solid tactic I use for my ork trukkas, deploying my entire parking lot sideways for an extra 2" or so.

LG are not allowed to enter a Ghost Ark either :(

Only Warriors and characters are cool enough to ride the ship.

Armor save 2+ warriors with a resorb lord and a ghost ark=Dying is for pansies.

Throw Nemesor Zandrekh in for extra lulz. Gauss weapons with Tank Hunter. Derp.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Throw Nemesor Zandrekh in for extra lulz. Gauss weapons with Tank Hunter. Derp.

That's a nice Spartan Assault Tank you have there. It'd be a shame if anything happened to it.

The other armies get significantly boosted as well as battle-brother combos being removed to encourage more fluffy lists. I can post the other armies rules changes if requested.

I use 2 Hvy Destroyers and a 2+ OL in an Imperial bunker w/ a coms relay and a void to bring on my 3 Doom Scythes and 3 Night Scythes. They do well.

Have you tried replacing the H.Destroyers with Destruct-teks to see how well that works out instead?