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2014/04/20 21:09:35
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Alright guys. I have been looking at the Dreadmob pdf from FW and I have noticed the rules for Buzzgob's Stompa. Here is what it says:
Spoiler:
"In games of Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse, or other
large scale battles, Buzzgob may be exchanged for a Big
Mek Stompa for +300 points (see
Warhammer 40,000:
Apocalypse
, page 272). Buzzgob’s Big Mek Stompa uses
all of the rules for a Big Mek Stompa and may select any
of the options available to one for the same points cost.
When this option is selected, Buzzgob counts as a Lords
of War choice and an army that includes him may not
select another Lords of War choice.
In addition, Buzzgob is considered to be on board the
Stompa and the controlling player may use Buzzgob’s
Mek’s tools and Grot Oilers to attempt repairs on
Buzzgob’s Big Mek Stompa, and the Stompa retains
the use of his Warlord trait. Should Buzzgob’s Big Mek
Stompa be destroyed then roll a D6. On a score of
5+ place Buzzgob, Nitnuckle & Lunk within 6" of the
remains of the Stompa’s wreck. Buzzgob then acts as
normal but has only one Wound remaining (note that
if either Nitnuckle or Lunk has already been ‘used’, as
per the Grot Oiler rule, they remain ‘used’ and do not
reappear with Buzzgob). If the Stompa is destroyed in a
fashion that does not leave a wreck then Buzzgob may
not be placed on the table and is considered destroyed."
Ok. At first glance here, WOW So as the rules imply the way that I am reading them you add the 300 points to Buzzgob's initial cost of 100 points. So wait, that means that you have a 400 point Stompa that along with Buzzgob's wargear which lets him repair the Stompa! That is really under priced for a Super Heavy of that echelon. So I have done some research and it looks to me like this is 100% legal, its just quite broken.
So here are some questions I have:
Is LoW specific to Escalation? It says Apoc sized battles, but does that include Escalation now?
Are these the current rules, or am I missing another pdf update page?
How is this even really possible? A 400 point, reparable Stompa is pretty ridiculous.
Alright Dakka what do you think, and what is your interpretation of the rules? Thanks for the help, we can come to a verdict on this ruling.
As it stands, yes it looks legal for Apoc, but unfortunately the Big Mek Stompa isn't on the list of what Orks are allowed to take as a Lord of War so it would be a no for Escalation.
2014/04/20 21:20:04
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
CrashCanuck wrote: As it stands, yes it looks legal for Apoc, but unfortunately the Big Mek Stompa isn't on the list of what Orks are allowed to take as a Lord of War so it would be a no for Escalation.
Yes, but it is on the list of LoW choices for the Dreadmob. Doesn't that mean its all good for Escalation? Although Buzzgob can be taken in both armies from Dreadmob and Codex: Orks, when he is in a Dreadmob army, the Stompa becomes legal, yes?
phatonic wrote: Its not included in escalation as the orky ia:8 is being updated soon.
CrashCanuck wrote: As it stands, yes it looks legal for Apoc, but unfortunately the Big Mek Stompa isn't on the list of what Orks are allowed to take as a Lord of War so it would be a no for Escalation.
Yes, but it is on the list of LoW choices for the Dreadmob. Doesn't that mean its all good for Escalation?
phatonic wrote: Its not included in escalation as the orky ia:8 is being updated soon.
Big mek stompa and kustom stompa aint the same unit.
As for the update thers a reason why its out for free now as for the update not a certain date when ia8:version 02 will be out.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/20 21:23:46
Waagh like a bawz
-
Kaptin Goldteef's waagh! 16250 points 45/18/3 (W/L/D) 7th Ed
The document Phatonic linked to is the only FW "Good for Escalation".
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2014/04/20 21:25:23
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Big mek stompa and kustom stompa aint the same unit.
The Stompa is just Kustom to Buzzgob, as it is available to him and only him . Here is what FW has called the Big Mek Stompa, what you would be using in this case. The rule specifys that you are indeed getting a Big Mek Stompa.
Spoiler:
"In games of Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse, or other
large scale battles, Buzzgob may be exchanged for a Big
Mek Stompa for +300 points"
You have twice now posted the rules that pertain to when you can take Buzzgob in the Stompa.
He is not a LoW choice, ever.
He is an HQ Choice, and you can pout him in a Stompa in Apocalypse. The rules speak for themselves.
Yes a Stompa, and a Kustom one at that can be a LoW in escalation.
No you do not have permission to upgrade Buzzgob into a Stompa outside of Apocalypse(the "or other
large scale battles" bit is actually Meaningless unless it has been agreed upon by you and your opponent to allow him, at which point it does not matter if you are playing escalation or just a 4,000 point game )
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2014/04/20 21:51:56
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
You have twice now posted the rules that pertain to when you can take Buzzgob in the Stompa.
He is not a LoW choice, ever.
He is an HQ Choice, and you can pout him in a Stompa in Apocalypse. The rules speak for themselves.
Yes a Stompa, and a Kustom one at that can be a LoW in escalation.
No you do not have permission to upgrade Buzzgob into a Stompa outside of Apocalypse(the "or other
large scale battles" bit is actually Meaningless unless it has been agreed upon by you and your opponent to allow him, at which point it does not matter if you are playing escalation or just a 4,000 point game )
So essentially the rules are legal as they stand, but the Stompa can't be taken in Escalation?
Also, is IA:8 Second Ed. announced or speculation?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/20 21:54:09
2014/04/20 21:59:34
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Pretty much; the Stompa is fine for Apoc(so the rules are legit) but you are not allowed to take it anywhere else.
I have no Idea about IA:8 v2.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2014/04/20 22:03:44
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
However they have confirmed that the points cost are wrong also in this PDF, and it should be +700pts.
Are you referring to the Big Mek Stompa or the regular Stompa? Where is this conformation that you speak of? The link you posted is already what we are debating about, the Updated rules. But this "conformation" you speak of could change a lot of things...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/20 22:05:10
2014/04/20 22:16:02
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
However they have confirmed that the points cost are wrong also in this PDF, and it should be +700pts.
Are you referring to the Big Mek Stompa or the regular Stompa? Where is this conformation that you speak of? The link you posted is already what we are debating about, the Updated rules. But this "conformation" you speak of could change a lot of things...
It was on their facebook page, and any email you send them will confirm it (unlike GW, FW are very quick to reply to rules questions about their stuff).
Although I'm well aware this wouldn't be considered RaW as it's in no official FAQ.
Generally if you ever have a ForgeWorld related question, just email them. They reply quickly.
Also I was referring to Buzzgobs Big Mek Stompa, sorry. That part if the entry is correct, just the price that is wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/20 22:37:06
2014/04/20 22:21:51
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
@ rest of thread: Whats the consensus on the Kustom Stompa as escalation legal or illegal? FWLoW list says yes, FW Ork LoW list replaces it with the Big Mek Stompa.
2014/04/20 23:19:40
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
I have not seen the Ork Specific LoW List you speak of, only the base LoW list that says Orks get the Kustom Stompa
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2014/04/20 23:52:14
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
I believe the dread mob update is the newer rules, we usually go by them.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2014/04/21 00:51:11
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
However they have confirmed that the points cost are wrong also in this PDF, and it should be +700pts.
Are you referring to the Big Mek Stompa or the regular Stompa? Where is this conformation that you speak of? The link you posted is already what we are debating about, the Updated rules. But this "conformation" you speak of could change a lot of things...
It was on their facebook page, and any email you send them will confirm it (unlike GW, FW are very quick to reply to rules questions about their stuff).
Although I'm well aware this wouldn't be considered RaW as it's in no official FAQ.
Generally if you ever have a ForgeWorld related question, just email them. They reply quickly.
Also I was referring to Buzzgobs Big Mek Stompa, sorry. That part if the entry is correct, just the price that is wrong.
I hear you. I'll go with the Raw.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kommissar Kel wrote: I believe the dread mob update is the newer rules, we usually go by them.
@ rest of thread: Whats the consensus on the Kustom Stompa as escalation legal or illegal? FWLoW list says yes, FW Ork LoW list replaces it with the Big Mek Stompa.
Due to the RaW it seems that the Big Mek Stompa can be taken in Escalation and Buzzgob's is legal too.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/21 00:52:44
2014/04/21 11:19:58
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
The RaW is correct though. I have no idea if they said what you claim about being +700 or not. The Big Mek Stompa replaces the Kustom Stompa on the Ork specific LoW list. So it is approved for Escalation, but I just don't know about using rules that aren't part of an official FaQ or update. If there will be an update for IA:8 soon, I am going to use the official rules for Buzzgobs's Stompa as much as I can unitl the OPness is changed. (Although it has changed according to what you say, in an unofficial style)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/21 15:16:08
2014/04/21 15:29:21
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
No it isn't. The writers have readily admitted it's wrong.
I have no idea if they said what you claim about being +700 or not.
You mean you're unwilling to find out, as it takes away a huge unfair advantage. The proof is a simple email away.
If this was simply a RaW debate then fine, but you're talking about actual game play. Using this against an actual opponent.
This is deliberately not finding out the true value in order to gain a huge advantage. This is the lowest form of bad sportsmanship, and I'd say flat out cheating. I truly hope any opponent refuses to play you based on this low behaviour.
2014/04/21 16:37:47
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
No it isn't. The writers have readily admitted it's wrong.
I have no idea if they said what you claim about being +700 or not.
You mean you're unwilling to find out, as it takes away a huge unfair advantage. The proof is a simple email away.
If this was simply a RaW debate then fine, but you're talking about actual game play. Using this against an actual opponent.
This is deliberately not finding out the true value in order to gain a huge advantage. This is the lowest form of bad sportsmanship, and I'd say flat out cheating. I truly hope any opponent refuses to play you based on this low behaviour.
To be fair though, we don't accept emails from GW as proof of anything in a RAW discussion. so unless forgeworld puts it in their FAQ, it's not official.
so as they should know be aware of the issue, hopefully they'll get it fixed soon, until then RAW is +300.
anyone quoting facebook during a game with me, will be met with looks of derision, as I would think they are up to something.
That said, at a touny, ask the TO to check your list first if he says it's ok, then it's ok. For friendly games, ask FW and get the information for yourself, and play it that way.
2014/04/21 16:40:25
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
sirlynchmob wrote: To be fair though, we don't accept emails from GW as proof of anything in a RAW discussion.
I know, I've mentioned that already.
What I was responding to was a HIWPI comment, not a RaW one.
You'll note I said I'm aware that RaW it is only +300
My response was to the post were he stated he would go with it anyway in a game, despite knowing it's wrong.
So RaW yes, +300
HIWPI: Flat out cheating.
And if he's playing strict RaW then I assume he's going with the fact that D-Weapons have no way to allocate their damage, and any model with a helmet can't shoot? Doubt it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/21 16:45:03
2014/04/21 16:50:24
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
sirlynchmob wrote: To be fair though, we don't accept emails from GW as proof of anything in a RAW discussion.
I know, I've mentioned that already.
What I was responding to was a HIWPI comment, not a RaW one.
You'll note I said I'm aware that RaW it is only +300
My response was to the post were he stated he would go with it anyway in a game, despite knowing it's wrong.
So RaW yes, +300
HIWPI: Flat out cheating.
I disagree with your conclusion that he's cheating though. He's playing by all the official rules.
labeling someone a cheater based on a email that only you have, is wrong.
2014/04/21 17:49:04
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Whether the Stompa in question is a type allowed in Escalation does not matter one whip.
The RAW it is an option for Apoc Only.
It is the exact same document that allows that stompa type as a LoW, It the upgrade was allowed in escalation, it would say so.
RAW it is only 400 points and you can only use it in apocalypse games.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2014/04/21 17:55:45
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
The rules for buzzgobs upgrade are posted in the thread twice already, but I will post them a third time with the pertinent bit highlighted:
"In games of Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse, or other
large scale battles, Buzzgob may be exchanged for a Big
Mek Stompa for +300 points"
If it is not a game of Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse; you have no permission to exchange him.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2014/04/21 18:57:24
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
But if it meant escalation they would have said escalation; The Big Mek stompa itself is a LoW choice for Escalation in that very document.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
So as the rules imply the way that I am reading them you add the 300 points to Buzzgob's initial cost of 100 points. So wait, that means that you have a 400 point Stompa that along with Buzzgob's wargear which lets him repair the Stompa! That is really under priced for a Super Heavy of that echelon. So I have done some research and it looks to me like this is 100% legal, its just quite broken.
16250 points 45/18/3 (W/L/D) 7th Ed
6250 points 9/3/1 (W/L/D) sixth-ed
3400 points 19/6/0 (W/L/D) 8' armybook
