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 jasper76 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Well it would normally hit 2 units of Termagants, the unit it spawned that turn and the unit it spawned the previous turn and hasn't moved away yet, so about 10 dead termagants.

I'm not sure I follow this. For example, all based on averages.

R1T1: Tervigon poops out 9 termagants. They push out to the 5-6" range. Then they run.
R1T2: Your tervigon doesn't get blown up.
R2T1: Termagants spawned in R1 get out of 12" range. Tervigon poops out another unit of 9 termagants. They push out to the 5-6" range.
R2T2: Tervigon gets blowed up. Only 1 unit is in 12" range, and gets hit with 9 S3 hits...5 termagants die.

Sorry I forgot you can run the turn you spawn. Though you also have to remember you can't actually spawn 5-6" away unless it's a small unit. The average spawn is 10 to 11 models, the unit has to be wholly within 6", so the furthest models will be 5" away at their nearest point, then even if you deploy the gants base to base, they end up filling a segment over 90 degrees around the tervi. Even if you assume there's no terrain or other units, it's not hugely practical, so you typically end up with gaunts less than 4" away. If you run both turns you should be fine though, assuming you just want the Tervigon in the back field and have room to move the Gants out of range.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Also you're probably lucky if the Tervi survives past turn 2, lol. Having both "synapse" and "backlash" is basically painting a "shoot me first!" target on it.

To counter this, my instinct would be to push stuff up field that must be dealt with, so that if the enemy over-targets the Tervigon, they will suffer greatly by avoiding stuff that's almost in their face. Of course, I've never played one game with Tyranids so all this might be good on paper or in my mind but go kaplunk in an actual game.

That's partly true, though that's true of pretty much all Tyranid monsters, they're all pretty immediate threats. I don't necessarily think it's BAD that it draws fire, but it's not the cheapest or most effective form of bullet magnet either. Because it's synapse it's quite significant when it dies, so it's hard to think "well at least they weren't shooting at XXXX" when the Tervigon is one of the worst things that can die, especially given you paid a termagant tax for it and were probably hoping for a few turns of spawning to give you some more scoring units, otherwise just buy more scoring units and babysitters to begin with.

That said, I don't think the Tervigon is THAT bad, I'd put it in the category of "viable but not essential", compared to a lot of other Tyranid units that are firmly in the "not even viable if you want to win" category.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Also you're probably lucky if the Tervi survives past turn 2, lol. Having both "synapse" and "backlash" is basically painting a "shoot me first!" target on it.

Let them. They can't shoot everything first. And something has to be the first thing to die also.

You're in for a bad time if you only are going to use units that will never be killed.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Sorry I forgot you can run the turn you spawn. Though you also have to remember you can't actually spawn 5-6" away unless it's a small unit. The average spawn is 10 to 11 models, the unit has to be wholly within 6", so the furthest models will be 5" away at their nearest point, then even if you deploy the gants base to base, they end up filling a segment over 90 degrees around the tervi. Even if you assume there's no terrain or other units, it's not hugely practical, so you typically end up with gaunts less than 4" away. If you run both turns you should be fine though, assuming you just want the Tervigon in the back field and have room to move the Gants out of range.

Yeah, I could see it turning into a total moshpit under the right circumstances.

The fact that there is multiple people now in this thread saying that its good thing the overpowered units were removed from the game hurts my faith in the intelligence of Wargamers.

Hurrdurr no point in balancing just remove from game pliz


Oh and to the guy who proclaimed "Doom couldn't be balanced! It killed 1.5x its cost everytime it came down!" For starters that suggests you are playing badly, but since both your statement and the obvious assumption that it happens because of low-level gameplay is completely anecdotal, I'll start by pointing out the fact that Doom too has a points value, and could have had his points value say, doubled, and then he would have not been overpowered even to your vastly overrated impression of the unit. Or they could have just removed his ability and gave him something else. Or made him a super Psyker. Or anything. But to give us nothing is just lazy and pathetic. Supporting the decision is even worse.

"Is the Tyranids new codex THAT bad?"

Yes.

As a person who plays multiple armies and books, yes, it is that bad.

NOTE: its not weak, its just bad. Its bland, un-imaginative and did not address many of the issues of the last book while removing many popular units.
That is bad.

Really, everything else...is just details.

 jasper76 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Tervigons directly encourage use of Termagants by:
a) Spawning them nearby (and requiring 2 turns to get out of range, assuming you can pass them off to another synapse creature)
b) Requiring you to buy a large brood in order to score with the Tervigon
It can then kill both of those units. In what reality is that not a liability? Tervigons are a big red button in the middle of your army that say to your opponent "push here to win".

When your primary defense against something is hoping that your opponent doesn't know how your codex works, that's a terrible game mechanic.

So if (a) each spawned unit of Termagants is out of range of Synapse Backash in 2 rounds, and (b) yu place the termagants you bought to unlock the Tervigon as a troop nowhere near the Tervigon itself, then it seems to me you are only ever in danger of losing (on average, rounded up) 5 termagants that you got for free. That doesn't sound bad to me. Maybe I am missing something.

If you're actively needing to keep Ld6 units away from an expensive source of synapse, that's precisely the issue. It's tough enough to maintain synapse control against good players without needing to avoid your own units.

I only have one thing to say about this subject.

When 6th edition Chaos Deamons came out, people said it was one of the worst codices to date. Nowadays, it is counted amongst the top 3 of most competitive armies.

DaPino wrote:
I only have one thing to say about this subject.

When 6th edition Chaos Deamons came out, people said it was one of the worst codices to date. Nowadays, it is counted amongst the top 3 of most competitive armies.

Some people said the Tau Codex was bad and the Eldar Codex was uncompetitive.

People are idiots.

DaPino wrote:
I only have one thing to say about this subject.

When 6th edition Chaos Deamons came out, people said it was one of the worst codices to date. Nowadays, it is counted amongst the top 3 of most competitive armies.

I see what you are insinuating, and that's a pretty short-sighted view, if you are assuming that because this codex is widely regarded as terribly written, that logic states it will somehow not be in a years time, because of a similar response given to a different codex, when the circumstantial differences after far larger than what you are taking into recognition.


That being said, I really don't recall the demon release being that unpopular, maybe this is my memory being skewed (other than the inevitable complaints about the two current codex kings being nerfed). Then again I didn't really follow the reception for this release, although I'm sure the reception for Nids is much worse. Also, wasn't the competitive status changing Grimoire combo of the dex found within like 2 months? Because its been nearly 4 for Tyranids, and I can guarantee this dex has no Grimoire.


On top of this, your short-shortsightedness has failed to recognise that people aren't unhappy with this codex from a competitive standpoint. It's got a really powerful build in there, and is well capable of beating Demons. I'd suggest taking the time out to actually read this thread and not just the title, and then taking note of what people are unhappy with, because it isn't the strength of the dex competitively. Most of us don't care about the final rankings of our army's strongest build in the high-level tournaments that we never attend - we would much rather be able to play sensible games with our Genestealers and Rippers.

 SHUPPET wrote:

DaPino wrote:
I only have one thing to say about this subject.

When 6th edition Chaos Deamons came out, people said it was one of the worst codices to date. Nowadays, it is counted amongst the top 3 of most competitive armies.

I see what you are insinuating, and that's a pretty short-sighted view, if you are assuming that because this codex is widely regarded as terribly written, that logic states it will somehow not be in a years time, because of a similar response given to a different codex, when the circumstantial differences after far larger than what you are taking into recognition.


That being said, I really don't recall the demon release being that unpopular, maybe this is my memory being skewed (other than the inevitable complaints about the two current codex kings being nerfed). Then again I didn't really follow the reception for this release, although I'm sure the reception for Nids is much worse. Also, wasn't the competitive status changing Grimoire combo of the dex found within like 2 months? Because its been nearly 4 for Tyranids, and I can guarantee this dex has no Grimoire.


On top of this, your short-shortsightedness has failed to recognise that people aren't unhappy with this codex from a competitive standpoint. It's got a really powerful build in there, and is well capable of beating Demons. I'd suggest taking the time out to actually read this thread and not just the title, and then taking note of what people are unhappy with, because it isn't the strength of the dex competitively. Most of us don't care about the final rankings of our army's strongest build in the high-level tournaments that we never attend - we would much rather be able to play sensible games with our Genestealers and Rippers.

Yeah it's a very short-sighted view, mostly hinging on the fact that people were unhappy about Khorne getting shafted and units getting weaker (but cheaper) across the board. There's also the fact that the Daemons codex actually saw some pretty significant changes in terms of gameplay and individual units, something which wasn't so much a complaint with the Nids codex.