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If my tank is obscured, can I take cover saves against the 6 rolled by Grav weapon ?
And can I take invulnerable save against grav weapon?

ian_destiny wrote:
If my tank is obscured, can I take cover saves against the 6 rolled by Grav weapon ?
And can I take invulnerable save against grav weapon?

RAW, no.
How many people play it: Yes.
HIWPI: Cover no, invul yes. I don't have a rule basis for the distinction.

What about a KFF? Still no cover? Never encountered this.

 doktor_g wrote:
What about a KFF? Still no cover? Never encountered this.

RAW or HIWPI?
Either way, I'd be consistent with my post.

KFF (currently) gives a cover save, which would be treated in exactly the same way as the cover save for being obscured.

rigeld2 wrote:

ian_destiny wrote:
If my tank is obscured, can I take cover saves against the 6 rolled by Grav weapon ?
And can I take invulnerable save against grav weapon?

RAW, no.
How many people play it: Yes.
HIWPI: Cover no, invul yes. I don't have a rule basis for the distinction.

Why?
My friend said grav weapons dont have the "ignore cover" special rule.

Vehicles can't because they never take a glancing or penetrating hit, they just suffer the result of immobilized and lose a hull point.

Why cant you take a cover save against a Grav weapon?

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Why cant you take a cover save against a Grav weapon?

When are you allowed to take cover saves?
When you take a Penetrating/Glancing Hit.
Do Grav weapons cause Penetrating or Glancing Hits?

Well i dont have the rules on me, but i thought a roll of 6 is an automatic glancing? ( I dont play against Grav guns very much)

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Well i dont have the rules on me, but i thought a roll of 6 is an automatic glancing? ( I dont play against Grav guns very much)

No, the roll of a 6 causes an immobilized result and a single hull point loss.

It does not give the vehicle a glancing hit.

 DeathReaper wrote:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Well i dont have the rules on me, but i thought a roll of 6 is an automatic glancing? ( I dont play against Grav guns very much)

No, the roll of a 6 causes an immobilized result and a single hull point loss.

It does not give the vehicle a glancing hit.

Ok thank you for the clarification

But guys... You seem to forget imobilise is a effect from the penetration chart would it not be a pen then? *gets popcorn*

Nope, because it skips the roll on the penetration chart.

Yes, RAW means vehicles get no saves.

I have yet to meet someone IRL who plays it that way.

If your going to hug RAW so tightly, then I guess models with no eyes can't shoot either....

Other than GW's poor writing, I see no reason why grav should affect vehicles any differently that infantry...

A vehicle that fails a dangerous terrain roll gets immobilized with the exact same wording as grav, and the FaQ tells us that you still get a invulnerable save.... Even without a glance or pen.

Grav weapons don't ignore cover.
models get a cover save against it.
Vehicles take cover saves like a model against wounds.
Vehicles get a cover save as well.

think of this comparison:

A battlewagon with a kustom forcefield rolls onto a rock and rolls a "1" for difficult terrain, and is immobilised. does it get a cover save? no, because there are no glancing or penetrating hits to be saved.

A grav weapon rolls a "6" to damage a vehicle. the vehicle suffers an immobilised result & a hullpoint loss. does it get a cover save? no, because there are no glancing or penetrating hits to be saved.

This isn't the same as a wound, it's an effect. like a psychic power that reduces your models toughness, you don't get a cover save against that.

What about invulns and FNP?

 some bloke wrote:
think of this comparison:

A battlewagon with a kustom forcefield rolls onto a rock and rolls a "1" for difficult terrain, and is immobilised. does it get a cover save? no, because there are no glancing or penetrating hits to be saved.

A grav weapon rolls a "6" to damage a vehicle. the vehicle suffers an immobilised result & a hullpoint loss. does it get a cover save? no, because there are no glancing or penetrating hits to be saved.

This isn't the same as a wound, it's an effect. like a psychic power that reduces your models toughness, you don't get a cover save against that.

but dangerous terrain wounds ignore cover. so neither models, nor vehicles get a cover save from those wounds.

grav weapons allow saves for models

According to the current ETC-faq, you can't take neither cover nor Invul saves against grav weapons. Idiocy, imo, but there you have it.

GeneralCael wrote:
According to the current ETC-faq, you can't take neither cover nor Invul saves against grav weapons. Idiocy, imo, but there you have it.

well it's not an official FAQ, but at least they were consistent in their rulings.

Do eldar get Titan holofields from grav weapons? Are Titans affected by grav weapons?

Shame GW doesn't just put the ignores cover special rule. Come on, they already knew buffmanders were going there.

 Arbiter wrote:
Do eldar get Titan holofields from grav weapons? Are Titans affected by grav weapons?

Shame GW doesn't just put the ignores cover special rule. Come on, they already knew buffmanders were going there.

The Holofield is basically a save versus to hit rolls.

rigeld2 wrote:

ian_destiny wrote:
If my tank is obscured, can I take cover saves against the 6 rolled by Grav weapon ?
And can I take invulnerable save against grav weapon?

RAW, no.
How many people play it: Yes.
HIWPI: Cover no, invul yes. I don't have a rule basis for the distinction.

I'm curious, why no for cover, yes for invuln? Especially since invulnerable saves (like cover saves) can only be taken against glances/pens.

 Happyjew wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

ian_destiny wrote:
If my tank is obscured, can I take cover saves against the 6 rolled by Grav weapon ?
And can I take invulnerable save against grav weapon?

RAW, no.
How many people play it: Yes.
HIWPI: Cover no, invul yes. I don't have a rule basis for the distinction.

I'm curious, why no for cover, yes for invuln? Especially since invulnerable saves (like cover saves) can only be taken against glances/pens.

I don't have my rulebook with me at the college today but aren't vehicle cover saves phrased that vehicles get them as if they were rolling against a wound?

 Happyjew wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

ian_destiny wrote:
If my tank is obscured, can I take cover saves against the 6 rolled by Grav weapon ?
And can I take invulnerable save against grav weapon?

RAW, no.
How many people play it: Yes.
HIWPI: Cover no, invul yes. I don't have a rule basis for the distinction.

I'm curious, why no for cover, yes for invuln? Especially since invulnerable saves (like cover saves) can only be taken against glances/pens.

As I said, it's not rules based.
I see cover stopping gravitic waves less than I can see some kind of shield stopping the waves. So more of a fluff based thing than anything else.
The reason it's vehicle specific is because cover for troops can represent ducking behind something, not knowing exactly where your target is, etc.
A tank isn't going to dodge behind a tree or wall.

Fluffily, cover saves aren't just about the target dodging the shot but the firer missing his shot because of vision, movement, etc.

 deviantduck wrote:
Fluffily, cover saves aren't just about the target dodging the shot but the firer missing his shot because of vision, movement, etc.

Correct. If it was even implied in the rules, I'd play infantry lose cover as well. Since it's not, the only thing I'm house ruling is that vehicle invul saves are allowed.
Also, firer missing his shot because of vision == not sure where your target is. If you can see half of a Land Raider, it's not hard to know where the other half is. If you can see half of a person, where's his arm at? His leg? What's being held there?
Movement == dodging...

Yes you can take both cover and invuns against Grav weapons. Anyone saying that they ignore them is literally making rules up. They do bypass them RaW but anyone trying to enforce that house rule on you is cheating. Just as much as someone telling you your Hiveguard can't wound people out of LoS or that your helmeted marines can't shoot or assault or that your FMC has the as yet undefined "Relentless Smash" special rule etc etc etc.

Expect a bunch of people to get indignant about be called on cheating.

Fling how is RAW a house rule? The rules don't give you the ability to take them, that's not making rules up that's fact. It probably wasn't intended but it's how it is.
You're making some crazy allegations about cheating there.