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TheKbob wrote: 40% of the armies in Warhammer 40k have the exact same statline with variance in special rules and upgrades:
Codex: Space Marines
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Blood Angel
Grey Knights
Chaos Space Marines
Sounds like there must be great demand among player for these.
I think you'll find that of these, three have a bigger playerbase than the others. By a large margin.
They're also the three most distinct ones that can't be rolled up into chapter tactics, a supplement, and some unique units.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
TheKbob wrote: 40% of the armies in Warhammer 40k have the exact same statline with variance in special rules and upgrades:
Codex: Space Marines
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Blood Angel
Grey Knights
Chaos Space Marines
Sounds like there must be great demand among player for these.
I suspect that was to illustrate how few "units" 40K uses, in much the same way you're trying to assert that X Wing has comparatively few "units" despite being around for less than a tenth the time.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
TheKbob wrote: 40% of the armies in Warhammer 40k have the exact same statline with variance in special rules and upgrades:
Codex: Space Marines Dark Angels Space Wolves Blood Angel Grey Knights Chaos Space Marines
Sounds like there must be great demand among player for these.
Not really. Having a lot of similar armies available doesn't mean they are all selling. By your logic, demand has gone down as Black Templars lost their stand-alone book.
As to "spreading around players" that is stupid. Why overcomplicate by further spreading out special rules into multiple books when one book serves? From the perspective of GW that just increases their own costs because now instead of printing one book, they have to print 2 or 3 or however many.
Yet another idiotic business decision you seem to support.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/04/26 19:27:55
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
This is how most 40k matchups go due to the imbalance. Pick one of Taudar/Screamerstar/Triptide/Triple Baledrake Nurgle Fun Time/Wave Serpent Circus/other netlist as the Detroit Red Wings, and anyone else as the kids:
That's what you get when you have zero thought towards a balanced game.
TheKbob wrote: 40% of the armies in Warhammer 40k have the exact same statline with variance in special rules and upgrades:
Codex: Space Marines
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Blood Angel
Grey Knights
Chaos Space Marines
Sounds like there must be great demand among player for these.
Not really. Having a lot of similar armies available doesn't mean they are all selling. By your logic, demand has gone down as Black Templars lost their stand-alone book.
It would seem that they weren't selling well enough, yes.
Also, Necrons should probably on the list. They also have the basic Marine stat-line for the most part.
TheKbob wrote: 40% of the armies in Warhammer 40k have the exact same statline with variance in special rules and upgrades:
Codex: Space Marines
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Blood Angel
Grey Knights
Chaos Space Marines
Sounds like there must be great demand among player for these.
I think you'll find that of these, three have a bigger playerbase than the others. By a large margin.
They're also the three most distinct ones that can't be rolled up into chapter tactics, a supplement, and some unique units.
Well, those with the biggest playerbase should probably be broken up into more separate codexes of similar appeal to spread players around a bit more.
The Black Templars had just as much to separate them as the Blood Angels, probably more, they got absorbed with the Space Marines anyway.
The Space Wolves are perhaps the only loyalist marine variant truly unique enough (the grey knights are a bit too weird to be easily lumped into the MEQ army) to not be able to be simplified down to a chapter tactic and a supplement's worth of stuff, but even then with a few dataslates I could probably condense the Wolves into Codex Space Marines.
The Grey Knights are unique and distinct enough to play on their own.
Whether or not the Chaos Legions need/deserve their own books is a matter of contention and debate, but I'd rather see a proper lost and the damned book before introducing yet more heldrake bait I mean power armor armies.
Meanwhile, if we give every Space marine variety their own codex; why stop there?
Why not give every major Guard Regiment model their own book?
Why not every craftworld, necron dynasty, dark eldar kabal, sister of battle order,, ork klan, Tau sept, and Tyranid Hive Fleet?
Why not just give every damn minor xenos and armed organization in the background their own book?
No, the Supplement system finally offers a way to trim the MEQ fat.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/26 19:35:57
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
TheKbob wrote: 40% of the armies in Warhammer 40k have the exact same statline with variance in special rules and upgrades:
Codex: Space Marines
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Blood Angel
Grey Knights
Chaos Space Marines
Sounds like there must be great demand among player for these.
Not really. Having a lot of similar armies available doesn't mean they are all selling. By your logic, demand has gone down as Black Templars lost their stand-alone book.
It would seem that they weren't selling well enough, yes.
The reason they weren't selling was because they were an old book and therefore weren't balanced against newer armies, being considerably weaker than the opposition.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
As to "spreading around players" that is stupid. Why overcomplicate by further spreading out special rules into multiple books when one book serves? From the perspective of GW that just increases their own costs because now instead of printing one book, they have to print 2 or 3 or however many.
Yet another idiotic business decision you seem to support.
Well, to have a good variety.
If you have 1000 40K Gamers that are spread out along 5 Codex books as follows...
That would seem to be the more preferable spread. People face different opponents more often, and, yes, financially, the company doesn't waste 20% of its miniature production on 50 exotic snowflakes, while shafting 50% of their consumers with equally only 20% of the miniature releases.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 19:34:48
There's a tangent occurring here, which has nothing to do with the original topic/the general direction of the thread.
If I were under pressure to justify some pretty difficult to justify opinions and arguments, I'd be pleased to see this and jump straight on it...
Just sayin...
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
As to "spreading around players" that is stupid. Why overcomplicate by further spreading out special rules into multiple books when one book serves? From the perspective of GW that just increases their own costs because now instead of printing one book, they have to print 2 or 3 or however many.
Yet another idiotic business decision you seem to support.
Well, to have a good variety.
If you have 1000 40K Gamers that are spread out along 5 Codex books as follows...
That would seem to be the more preferable spread. People face different opponents more often, and, yes, financially, the company doesn't waste 20% of its miniature production on 50 exotic snowflakes, while shafting 50% of their consumers with equally only 20% of the miniature releases.
Wouldn't the smart thing in this case be to look at why Codex 1 alone has the same as everyone else combined, and why barely anyone is playing Codex 4 and 5, and do something to address that? But again in a balanced game this wouldn't even need to happen because you really could play what you liked/think is cool, instead of having the company push one army more than everything else (e.g. Space Marines) or have some armies just so powerful that people gravitate towards them to the exclusion of others.
Wouldn't the smart thing in this case be to look at why Codex 1 alone has the same as everyone else combined, and why barely anyone is playing Codex 4 and 5, and do something to address that? But again in a balanced game this wouldn't even need to happen because you really could play what you liked/think is cool, instead of having the company push one army more than everything else (e.g. Space Marines) or have some armies just so powerful that people gravitate towards them to the exclusion of others.
I don't think a company can influence demand like this.
GW gave 40K and Warhammer Fantasy a relatively equal amount of time in the limelight... indeed, Fantasy was the first poster child. Didn't stop people from buying Space Marines.
But if Black Templars are a sign of declining Space Marine sales, you should be happy, no?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/26 19:41:27
Wouldn't the smart thing in this case be to look at why Codex 1 alone has the same as everyone else combined, and why barely anyone is playing Codex 4 and 5, and do something to address that? But again in a balanced game this wouldn't even need to happen because you really could play what you liked/think is cool, instead of having the company push one army more than everything else (e.g. Space Marines) or have some armies just so powerful that people gravitate towards them to the exclusion of others.
I don't think a company can influence demand like this.
GW gave 40K and Warhammer Fantasy a relatively equal amount of time in the limelight... indeed, Fantasy was the first poster child. Didn't stop people from buying Space Marines.
But if Black Templars are a sign of declining Space Marine sales, you should be happy, no?
GW could influence it's market more if it ever actually advertised or something.
Just saying.
Don't even have to run a TV spot, just do what world of tanks or Evony did and plaster banner ads everywhere and you're bound to get hundreds of thousands of customers (or suckers in Evony's case).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 19:43:29
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
TheKbob wrote: 40% of the armies in Warhammer 40k have the exact same statline with variance in special rules and upgrades:
Codex: Space Marines
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Blood Angel
Grey Knights
Chaos Space Marines
I kind of agree, but I think that CSM and GK are different enough to merit them being separate armies. And maybe Space Wolves.
And this is because of player demand too. I mean, everyone wants to play with the little plastic marines so they'll expand the little plastic marine line.
Overall I'd say that focusing a tad more on Xenos would be nice, but it's certainly not ruining the game or anything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 19:44:24
Tell me specifically how keeping my Penitent Engines useless on the table is good for the game.
Because it keeps the game imbalanced.
Then why even have the Pentinent engine if no one takes it in any serious capacity?
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Balanced 40K= every codex considered "Tier one" regardless of individual strengths and weaknesses.
Forcing each codex to have "crappy" choices does not equal "balance", "imperfect balance" or anything fun derived thereof.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
Then why even have the Pentinent engine if no one takes it in any serious capacity?
Nobody who takes the game serious has a problem with the Pentinent Engine.
Only those who can't see beyond childish concerns like "winning" do.
A game is different from other forms of entertainment because it has a win or lose component and a game is most optimal when it is fair for everyone involved. If the player feels like they fairly earned their victory or defeat, then they are likely to have the most possible fun.
Getting your ass handed to you because you brought what you had/what you liked while the other guy simply rides with the FotM army and units is not fair.
At this point you may as well just regress to Army Men rules. Which is no rules.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
