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Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA

http://www.king5.com/news/crime/Gun-checks-miss-millions-of-fugitives-256347741.html

WASHINGTON — Millions of fugitives can pass undetected through federal background checks and buy guns illegally because police departments across the country routinely fail to put their names into a national database that tracks people on the run from the law.

Those background checks, conducted by the FBI, are designed to block fugitives, felons, the mentally ill and others who might be violent from buying firearms. They automatically bar sales to anyone identified in federal records as having an outstanding arrest warrant, even if it is for a minor crime.

Yet despite years of attempts to shore up the government's National Instant Background Check System, enormous gaps remain, particularly when it comes to identifying fugitives. In five states alone, law enforcement agencies failed to provide information to the FBI about at least 2.5 million outstanding arrest warrants, police and court records show. Among them are tens of thousands of people wanted for violent offenses and other felonies.
"I remember when I bought my first gun thinking that I could have had a felony warrant for murder and they wouldn't have known," said Kevin Collins, who supervises Michigan's fugitive database for the state police.
Michigan police are required to report every arrest warrant to the state police, but they share only about 7% with the FBI — a process that would require little more than checking two boxes in the state's computer system. The result is that the federal databases used to conduct background checks are missing more than 900,000 Michigan arrest warrants. That means a fugitive from Michigan could walk into a gun store anywhere in the country, agree to a background check and walk out with a gun and neither the FBI nor the store would have any way to know he was wanted.

The gaps are largely a byproduct of the fact that police and prosecutors are often unwilling to spend the time or money to pursue fugitives across a state border. The FBI fugitive database is built to help police find people once they leave the state, and many agencies see no reason to include the names of fugitives they have no intention of pursuing.
An investigation last month by USA TODAY found that tens of thousands of fugitives — including people on the run from charges of robbery, sexual assault and murder — could escape justice merely by crossing a state border. Those fugitives are responsible for a substantial share of violent crime. In Washington, for example, one of every six people charged with murder was already wanted by the police for another crime.
After a gunman killed 32 people at Virginia Tech in 2007, states rushed to pour more information into the databases the FBI uses to conduct its background checks, especially records that could help identify people diagnosed with mental illnesses. Gaps in fugitive reporting went largely unaddressed.

"It is unfortunately not surprising to me the extent to which there are holes in our system, given Congress' lack of success in addressing them," said Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.
It's clear that fugitives frequently are in the market for guns. The FBI has blocked more than 113,000 gun purchases since 1998 because of outstanding warrants, the second-leading reason for failed background checks. Those denials were based only on warrants reported to the FBI, and the handful of states that consult their own records before approving a purchase.

In Little Rock, Deandra Smith, already facing charges of shooting into a crowded nightclub, managed to buy at least four guns from a local pawn shop because a warrant for his arrest had never been reported to state or federal fugitive databases. "Without that, it wouldn't matter how many checks you ran," his lawyer, David Cannon, said.
How often fugitives are able to obtain weapons as a result is impossible to measure. Many states have strictly limited access to records that might identify gun owners, and others restrict access to their own databases of fugitives, making it difficult for the public to compare the two.
In 30 states and Washington, D.C., gun buyers are checked only against the FBI's database. Those states account for more than half of the nation's applications to purchase weapons, about 11.2 million in 2013. Another seven states run their own background checks on handgun purchasers — meaning they can also scrutinize records not shared with the FBI — but rely on the federal government to screen buyers of rifles and shotguns.

"The more information we can have, the more we can rely upon to make a sound decision about whether or not someone has the right to purchase a firearm," said Sean Ragan, who supervises the FBI's background checks.
The gaps add up to a "massive, but not well-documented, warrant under-reporting problem," researchers for Search, a non-profit that helps states share criminal records, concluded last year. They estimated as many as 6 million arrest warrants may be missing from FBI records.
The numbers add up quickly:

• In Ohio: State police know of 183,000 warrants that were not reported to the FBI. Other warrants aren't even reported to the state, said Les Reel, who supervises the state's fugitive database.

• In Washington: Police opted not to report more than 184,000 warrants to the FBI, including more than 13,000 for people accused of felonies, according to the Washington State Patrol. Washington conducts its own background checks on handgun buyers, but those fugitives would likely be able to buy guns in other states.

• In Arizona: Only about 13,000 of the 44,000 felony arrest warrants issued by state courts were reported to the FBI.
Police and courts are not required to share warrant information with the FBI.

Those checks can sometimes prove doubly useful for police. In many cases, when someone fails a background check because of an outstanding warrant, officials will both block his attempt to buy a gun and send a police officer to arrest him. In 2012, police in Virginia — which conducts its own background checks — arrested 102 fugitives when they tried to buy guns.



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FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

So the Federal Government isn't really failing at the background c hecks, but the states (or lower levels of government) are being stupid?

Getting this crap fixed somehow shouldn't be this dang hard...
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA

 d-usa wrote:
So the Federal Government isn't really failing at the background c hecks, but the states (or lower levels of government) are being stupid?

Getting this crap fixed somehow shouldn't be this dang hard...


We're too focused on adding more laws and regulations to the already backed up and underfunded departments necessary to enforce the current ones. It's ridiculous

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch

FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Realisticly, how does the federal government punish states and local areas that fail to report?
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

This calls into question the FBI Uniform Crime Reporting statistics.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




How so?
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.


I don't think it does, but I think KK's reasoning is that the UCR requires voluntary reporting from local/state law enforcement to the FBI.

Although it does raise some questions...like how in the world as many warrants as there were failed to be reported to the FBI. That is something which needs to be looked into.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 12:06:57


 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 Kanluwen wrote:
I don't think it does, but I think KK's reasoning is that the UCR requires voluntary reporting from local/state law enforcement to the FBI.

If so, I'm still not sure I follow. The UCR stuff is just a statistics dump: "We had 19 homicides, 38 burglaries, 22..." etc.
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

Is having a warrant out for your arrest really grounds for denial of the 2nd Amendment though?

I thought you had to be a CONVICTED felon before they could do that?

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
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Gathering the Informations.

 Seaward wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
I don't think it does, but I think KK's reasoning is that the UCR requires voluntary reporting from local/state law enforcement to the FBI.

If so, I'm still not sure I follow. The UCR stuff is just a statistics dump: "We had 19 homicides, 38 burglaries, 22..." etc.

It's not "just" a statistics dump actually. It is used for a lot of studies relating to economic health of localities, the effects of different methodologies of law enforcement (i.e. targeted patrols v. general patrols), and other things of that nature.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 djones520 wrote:
Is having a warrant out for your arrest really grounds for denial of the 2nd Amendment though?

I thought you had to be a CONVICTED felon before they could do that?

Nope. When there's a warrant out for your arrest, they generally flag you for firearm sales.
Innocent until proven guilty is no reason for you to be able to get a gun that might be used to kill cops or witnesses.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 12:21:15


 
   
Made in us
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Leerstetten, Germany

 djones520 wrote:
Is having a warrant out for your arrest really grounds for denial of the 2nd Amendment though?

I thought you had to be a CONVICTED felon before they could do that?


Not sure.

You can be put in prison before you are convicted as well. And I think restraining orders can preclude you as well I think.
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not "just" a statistics dump actually. It is used for a lot of studies relating to economic health of localities, the effects of different methodologies of law enforcement (i.e. targeted patrols v. general patrols), and other things of that nature.

I mean the stuff that state/local cops hand over to the FBI for the UCR is just a statistics dump. I doubt they include more than numbers; certainly not names, case status, etc.
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 d-usa wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
Is having a warrant out for your arrest really grounds for denial of the 2nd Amendment though?

I thought you had to be a CONVICTED felon before they could do that?


Not sure.

You can be put in prison before you are convicted as well. And I think restraining orders can preclude you as well I think.


If it's legal to do so, then ok. But if not, then this whole story is a lot to do about nothing.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Seaward wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not "just" a statistics dump actually. It is used for a lot of studies relating to economic health of localities, the effects of different methodologies of law enforcement (i.e. targeted patrols v. general patrols), and other things of that nature.

I mean the stuff that state/local cops hand over to the FBI for the UCR is just a statistics dump. I doubt they include more than numbers; certainly not names, case status, etc.

The information that is handed over does not include names of those who committed the crimes but it does include a bit more than numbers. It includes (depending on the police department/state agency there might be more or less information) the type of crime, the basic rundown of the incident(i.e. "At 12:00AM, white male subject was arrested at the scene of an electronics store burglary when the silent alarm was triggered and a patrolling unit was nearby"), whether the suspect had prior convictions and if there was a successful prosecution or not or if the case was still pending.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 djones520 wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
Is having a warrant out for your arrest really grounds for denial of the 2nd Amendment though?

I thought you had to be a CONVICTED felon before they could do that?


Not sure.

You can be put in prison before you are convicted as well. And I think restraining orders can preclude you as well I think.


If it's legal to do so, then ok. But if not, then this whole story is a lot to do about nothing.


I'm guessing it is covered under "fugitive from justice" aspect of people that are prohibited.

It's not that you are guilty of the crime, but you are guilty of not turning yourself in...or something like that...

The actual list/law: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

Spoiler:
(g)It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1)who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

(2)who is a fugitive from justice;

(3)who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

(4)who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;

(5)who, being an alien—
(A)is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or

(B)except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));

(6)who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

(7)who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;

(8)who is subject to a court order that—
(A)was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;

(B)restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and

(C)
(i)includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or

(ii)by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or

(9)who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence,

to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/26 12:38:37


 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 d-usa wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
Is having a warrant out for your arrest really grounds for denial of the 2nd Amendment though?

I thought you had to be a CONVICTED felon before they could do that?


Not sure.

You can be put in prison before you are convicted as well.

You certainly can, mainly it is if you do not/are not allowed to be released on bail. Also it can be if you violate certain conditions of release before trial such as if you're told to stay away from the people who filed the police report against you but choose not to.

And I think restraining orders can preclude you as well I think.

It can...but those do not always get properly filed/recognized, sometimes with tragic results.
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Seaward wrote:

I mean the stuff that state/local cops hand over to the FBI for the UCR is just a statistics dump. I doubt they include more than numbers; certainly not names, case status, etc.


What KK is suggesting is that they're purposely underselling crime reports, which shouldn't be that surprising. NYC had an unspoken policy for several years where the cops would just let you go if they decided you weren't worth their time, including possible robbers, murderers, and rapists. All so they could then report back to the high command that they'd 'reduced crime' which is how Bloomberg made his silly statement that he'd won the war on crime even though its been suggested crime went up under his tenure, not lower since then.

   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 LordofHats wrote:
 Seaward wrote:

I mean the stuff that state/local cops hand over to the FBI for the UCR is just a statistics dump. I doubt they include more than numbers; certainly not names, case status, etc.


What KK is suggesting is that they're purposely underselling crime reports, which shouldn't be that surprising. NYC had an unspoken policy for several years where the cops would just let you go if they decided you weren't worth their time, including possible robbers, murderers, and rapists. All so they could then report back to the high command that they'd 'reduced crime' which is how Bloomberg made his silly statement that he'd won the war on crime even though its been suggested crime went up under his tenure, not lower since then.

Which is why running a police department like a business is asinine.
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

djones520 wrote:Is having a warrant out for your arrest really grounds for denial of the 2nd Amendment though?

I thought you had to be a CONVICTED felon before they could do that?


See 11d. Certainly when there is a warrant out, there are other amendments that you lose temporarily as you are arrested and jailed.


Millions of fugitives can pass undetected through federal background checks and buy guns illegally because police departments across the country routinely fail to put their names into a national database that tracks people on the run from the law.


I think the first line of the article disagrees with the headline. It sounds like the federal background checks work fine to me; local government database entry is the problem.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
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Somewhere in south-central England.

 Seaward wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
I don't think it does, but I think KK's reasoning is that the UCR requires voluntary reporting from local/state law enforcement to the FBI.

If so, I'm still not sure I follow. The UCR stuff is just a statistics dump: "We had 19 homicides, 38 burglaries, 22..." etc.


The UCR is the central database for recording criminal activity. If it is not up to date and accurate, then evidence based policy cannot be worked out.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Perfect label of the problem with the States and Fed's with this issue



Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
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RIP Muhammad Ali.

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Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

I like to think of America as a really dysfunctional Brady Bunch. The Federal Government is a constantly drunk Robert Reed who means well but just doesn't understand his kids issues. The American public are Florence Henderson, always nagging Rob about how he's not providing enough and occasionally they hit each other and then every four years they have awesome make up sex, and the states are all the kids, who have varying mental and physical disabilities and never stop pestering their parents with every little complaint they can think of


   
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If one State (kid) goes Emancipation (Texas) then Federal (Dad) gets pissed.....or one kid gets a hold of a weapon....gets mad at everyone...target friendly shooting occurs...

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.

Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

I've always said the Civil War was a big temper tantrum

And please. Everyone knows Texas is the adopted child who broods in the corner about how no one understands him

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 17:27:51


   
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Ya...that Texas a bit....chubby...so it has to be a wide corner....

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.

Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 Kilkrazy wrote:
The UCR is the central database for recording criminal activity. If it is not up to date and accurate, then evidence based policy cannot be worked out.

But why would you get the impression from this article that the statistics provided for the UCR are inaccurate?
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Seaward wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
The UCR is the central database for recording criminal activity. If it is not up to date and accurate, then evidence based policy cannot be worked out.

But why would you get the impression from this article that the statistics provided for the UCR are inaccurate?

Since the system is voluntary and there are no real "penalties" for not reporting, if agencies were not reporting arrest warrants then it makes the validity of the UCR questionable.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 Seaward wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
The UCR is the central database for recording criminal activity. If it is not up to date and accurate, then evidence based policy cannot be worked out.

But why would you get the impression from this article that the statistics provided for the UCR are inaccurate?


the article wrote:In five states alone, law enforcement agencies failed to provide information to the FBI about at least 2.5 million outstanding arrest warrants, police and court records show. Among them are tens of thousands of people wanted for violent offenses and other felonies.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Seaward wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
The UCR is the central database for recording criminal activity. If it is not up to date and accurate, then evidence based policy cannot be worked out.

But why would you get the impression from this article that the statistics provided for the UCR are inaccurate?


the article wrote:In five states alone, law enforcement agencies failed to provide information to the FBI about at least 2.5 million outstanding arrest warrants, police and court records show. Among them are tens of thousands of people wanted for violent offenses and other felonies.

Reporting arrest warrants is different - and presumably more time-consuming - then announcing, "We had thirty-six homicides." The UCR does not appear to be based off the number of warrants issued, but the number of criminal complaints received.

Which isn't to say the UCR's accuracy should be taken as a given, but the two issues don't appear to be linked.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/26 19:29:13


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






You figure a program would send a "hit" to Fed data base.

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.

Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
 
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