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There's a friendly tournament coming up that I'd like to participate in but I don't want to be swiped off the board every game. So I was wondering if any of you had some suggestions/feedback for me. This is my army list:

HQ
Archon (Agoniser, Blaster, Kabalite armour, Combat drugs, Shadow Field) 120pts
Baron Sathonyx - 105pts

Elites
Incubi x4 88pts
- Dedicated Transport: Venom (twin linked splinter rifles, splinter cannon, nightshield and flickerfield) 70pts

Troops
7x Hellions (Troops Choice) 127pts
10x Kabalite Warriors (1 Assault: Blaster, 1 Heavy weapon Splinter Cannon, 1 Sybarite with agoniser and blast pistol) 160pts
10x Wyches (1 raxorflails, 1 hydra gauntlets, 1 hekatrix with Agoniser and splinter pistol) 150pts
- Dedicated Transport: Raider (Dark Lance and Flickerfield) 70pts

Heavy Support
Ravager (3x Dark lance, Nightshield and Flickerfield) 125pts

Okay, so you don't need the flickerfields, they are just unnecessary with jinx, especially for 10 points. If you lost 5 you gain 50 points, which you can use to buy 3 more hellions, good deal.

Next, you're Kabalite warriors are all wrong, or maybe I'm wrong depending on how I think you're using them. I'm assuming you are putting the witches in the Raider, fine, that works. As for the kabalites, they should be sitting back on an objective taking popshots. Because of this, their blaster and sybarite won't be of any use. So you have a few (basically 2) options:
-Make a ten man squad with either a dark lance or a splinter cannon, whatever you feel you need more. (115)
-Make a 20 man squad with 2 dark lances, 2 splinter cannons, or one of each (200-230)

You can find the points somewhere (your math is a little screwy), but maybe get the DL warriors and add a splinter cannon on the venom, maybe at the expense of some hellions. How about this list:

Archon (venom blade, Kabalite armour, Shadow Field, phantasm grenade launcher) 120pts
Baron Sathonyx - 105pts

Elites
Incubi x4 88pts
- Dedicated Transport: Venom 55

Troops
6x Hellions (Troops Choice) 96

20x Kabalite Warriors w. 2 dark lances 230

10x Wyches (2 hydra gauntlets, 1 hekatrix) 130
- Dedicated Transport: Raider 60

Heavy Support
1 Ravager w. night shields 115

Thanks for the feedback!

I've always assumed that Raiders, Ravagers and Venoms wouldn't be able to jink. Don't know why... (well obviously it's because I haven't played more than 4 games so far). Reading the rules, doesn't the jink move limit my movement/range for the Raider or Venom (don't care much about the Ravager).

Up until now I've always just put my models together on the basis of what looks cool and seems remotely useful. I thought having some sort of close combat capability (with the Sybarite) when the feces start hitting the rotary device would be useful. The fact that I took a blast pistol + blaster in that squad is because none of the other weapons have armour penetration.

Which is also one of the reasons the Agonisers are in my list. Even the Archon has a strength of a measly 3, making it extremely difficult to wound if you don't take a weapon that 'wounds regardless of toughness' and has AP3. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a Venom blade can get through the armour of most Marine squads, let alone ICs or Sgts.

Is there any particular reason why you're taking two Hydra Gauntlets rather than two raizorflails or two shardnet + impaler combos (or some combination of these)? Not trying to undermine your opinion, just trying to understand the philosophy and improve my WH40k IQ.

The skimmers get a 5+ Jink save if they've moved in the Movement Phase, even 1" is enough. When you go Flat Out, you get an improved 4+ Jink.

I know the deal with taking "cool" stuff instead of "efficient" stuff. I've managed to uplift my CSM army from casual to semi-competitive by changing the "abstract" upgrades and equipment alone. I can't afford to take cool stuff only if I want to win from time to time

Venom Blade is the poor man's choice. If you have the points to spare, Agoniser is better.

This jink business will save me a lot of points which will potentially flow into Nightshields and the like Thanks for that!

I will try to look more into the 'efficient upgrades for my cool units'

i play dark eldar at 2000 points and personally i love the flicker fields because if you dont get turn one your paper vehicles have no defense, granted i may be bias because the person i mainly play is a deathwing player =/

If you don't get turn one...that's why he has the baron!

And I didn't think you could deep strike on turn 1...

 Suburbanbiafra wrote:
If you don't get turn one...that's why he has the baron!

And I didn't think you could deep strike on turn 1...

deathwing assault lets you deep strike on turn one bud, what does baron do for him?

gak, I was confusing rules, Baron just gives you +1 when choosing deployment side, still useful.

As for you, Emu, I think Hydra gauntlets are amazing. Sure it's a matter of luck, but with 2 gauntlets you could potentially get 12 extra attacks, which is more than the rest of the squad combined. The razorflails give you rerolls, but at best you're still only getting two wounds, which you could potentially get even by rolling a 1 with the hydra gauntlets. Also, the shardnet reduces attacks by one with a minimum of 1, but two things: first of all, it's only models in base contact with that one model, so maybe at best you take away 3 attacks... also, against things like marines with only one attack they don't do anything. Maybe taking two against nids and orks might help, but still, your wyches have a +4 invulnerable save in cc, so your opponants attacks are pretty hindered anyway, and also against hoard armies with many attacks, their saves are usually low enough to justify hydra gauntlets.

When it comes to the feces and the fan with your kabalites, you wont be doing much damage to your opponants regardless of what you upgrade your sybarate with. At that point, you just want to survive, so more models the merrier. Plus, anyone who charges a 20 man unit of overwatch splinter rifles is either brave or stupid, either or youre doing your damage there.

And finally, yeah, venom blades are the poor mans choice. Agonizers are generally better, especially against marines, but personally that +2 to hit means I usually get 4 hits, compared to 2 with an agonizer. The inevitable kills are usually the same against marines, with the agonizer being slightly higher, but if youre strapped for points then feth it. (and against units with bad saves then venom is always my go to). Also, you're running the archon with incubi, so you will have plenty of power weapon shots to make your fury.

FAQ - Baron gives +1 to winning the roll-off to determine who goes first.

Only thought I've got about the list is not enough troops!
I'd ditch the archon entirely and use the points to get more scoring models, since DE troop choices are not only squishy as heck, but also rather good at being killy.
Or at least give the Kabbies a Raider.
If you won't drop the Archon, look at squeezing in a Phantasm Grenade Launcher to give the Incubi their much-needed assault grenades to allow them to attack into cover, and defensive grenades to help keep them alive.

Good hunting!

With the prevalence of ignores cover weapons now (and Tau) Flickerfields are pretty much a must have on DE in tournaments. Night Shields obviously are also very good.

 Laughingcarp wrote:
FAQ - Baron gives +1 to winning the roll-off to determine who goes first.

Only thought I've got about the list is not enough troops!
I'd ditch the archon entirely and use the points to get more scoring models, since DE troop choices are not only squishy as heck, but also rather good at being killy.
Or at least give the Kabbies a Raider.
If you won't drop the Archon, look at squeezing in a Phantasm Grenade Launcher to give the Incubi their much-needed assault grenades to allow them to attack into cover, and defensive grenades to help keep them alive.

Good hunting!

Thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate everyone giving me advice on my list and what I should consider while building out this list. I would love to put the Kabbies in a Raider with 'racks but for 1000pts cap I don't think that's attainable without loosing firepower (also I only have one Raider model). Perhaps, though, the raider would be better suited to go with the Kabbies rather than the Wyches... if there is enough cover for them to get to the other side without being desintegrated.

The reason I'm bringing the Baron is because this way I have three Troops choices, since the Hellions become Troops as well. Kabalites for ranged support, whyches for CC assault and Hellions for speedy objective taking (with added bonus of the Baron being super awesome while assaulting, giving extra rolls for dangerous terrain and having a 2+ invuln which can soak up a lot of damage).

Archon with the Incubi are for elite killing, the combination of spearheading with the Archon and his 2+ is too good to pass by. I will be looking into the possibility of putting a Phantasm Grenade Launcher on the man.

Taking all the advice into account I will give an updated list soon!

HQ (250pts)

* Archon (145pts)
(Fleet, Independent Character, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
Agoniser, Combat Drugs, Kabalite Armor, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Plasma Grenades, Shadow field, Splinter Pistol


* Baron Sathonyx (105pts)
(Bones of the Seer, Fleet, Hit and Run, Independent Character, Master of the Skies, Night Vision, Power from Pain, Twilight Shroud)
Hellglaive, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Shadowfield, Splinter Pistol, Wychsuit
* Custom Skyboard
Splinter Pods


Elites (153pts)

* Incubi (153pts)
(Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
Incubus Warsuit
* 4x Incubi
4x Klaive
* Dedicated Transport: Venom
Flickerfield, Nightshield, Twin Linked Splinter Rifles


Troops (482pts)

* Hellions (Troops) (112pts)
(Fleet, Hit and Run, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
Combat Drugs
* 7x Hellion
7x Hellglaive
* Skyboard
Splinter Pods


* 10 Kabalite Warriors (145pts)
(Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* 7x Kabalite Warrior
Splinter Rifle
* Kabalite Warrior with assault weapon
Blaster
* Kabalite Warrior with heavy weapon
Splinter Cannon
* Sybarite
* Pistol and Close Combat Weapon
Blast Pistol, Venom Blade


* Wyches (225pts)
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Close Combat Weapon, Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol
* Wych with Wych Weapon
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Razorflails
* Wych with Wych Weapon
Haywire grenades, Hydra Gauntlets, Plasma Grenades
* 7x Wyches
7x Haywire grenades, 7x Plasma Grenades, 7x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon
* Dedicated Transport: Raider
Dark Lance, Nightshield, Retrofire Jets

Heavy Support (115pts)

* Ravager (115pts)
(Aerial Assault, Night Vision)
Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Nightshield

1. Archon needs phantasm grenade launcher.

2. Fix that venom with the incubi. You don't need flickerfields and nightshilds and chainsnares or nothing. Just give it the other cannon and retrofire jets. Pop it down, disembark your incubi behind it for cover, fire those cannons, and thank your 65 point machine for giving your HQ some cover.

3. Put the wyches in the raider... Might as well even deepstrike these gals, but I guess you really don't need to. All I'm saying is that they will be eaten alive if they are footslogging. Unlike the kabalites which you can cosy up in an objective and do DL pop shots and have a fair amount of overwatch protection, those wyches need to get to the enemy as fast as possible, so either put them in a raider with sheilds and fields, or just deep strike the bastard with jets.

4. Seriously, and anyone else back me up on this, but I don't think that agonizer on the kabalites will be of much use. You're better off getting a ten man squad with a dark lance and sticking them on an objective. The way the squad looks now, not only is it illegal (you need at least 10 models for that splinter cannon), but it seems as if you want to rush it up close to the enemy and lay down some fire. The problem is that you have a unit which is geared up for close combat (sybarite with agonizer), anti tank (blast weapons), and anti-infantry (splinter stuff), all in a paper ship that will be blown to hell in seconds. It is the art of playing Dark Eldar, to know the purpose of each unit and use it effectively for that purpose. This isn't a tac squad, you cant just move them around, survive firepower, pop a tank over there, flame this squad, do some damage in cc. No, you hit hard and fast and strike with purpose. If you want to have a hit and run squad in a raider, drop the agonizer and sybarite, give it the cannon and blaster, and then either jets or shilds and fields. The problem with this is that you need to dig up another 60 points because you need those wyches in a raider as well... The second option is to put them in a ten man footslogging squad for an objective with a dark lance. If you want, you can stick a sybarite on there for when the stuff hits the blades, but I'd give him a venom blade at most. When you break down the points, you could spend those 25 on something that will be far more useful and see far more action rather than an insurance policy on a non-cc dedicated unit.

I have edited the above army list, taking your feedback into account.

1. Done

2. Flickerfield is mandatory on the venom, the nightshield allows me to get in closer before being shot out of the sky.

3. Done. Though deepstriking a Raider will only be possible if I bring Duke Sliscus. Though giving the Archon a webway portal might do the same trick.

4. There are 10 models. 7 with splinter rifles, 1 blaster, 1 splinter cannon and the sybarite. I need some anti tank in that squad because the rifles do nothing against tanks, seeing that the Ravager will draw fire like nobody's business and leave me without anti-tank units.

 RottenEmu wrote:
I have edited the above army list, taking your feedback into account.

1. Done

2. Flickerfield is mandatory on the venom, the nightshield allows me to get in closer before being shot out of the sky.

3. Done. Though deepstriking a Raider will only be possible if I bring Duke Sliscus. Though giving the Archon a webway portal might do the same trick.

4. There are 10 models. 7 with splinter rifles, 1 blaster, 1 splinter cannon and the sybarite. I need some anti tank in that squad because the rifles do nothing against tanks, seeing that the Ravager will draw fire like nobody's business and leave me without anti-tank units.

you can deep strike a raider if you buy the retro fire jet upgrade i believe it is, and flicker fields are still necessary in tournament play lol, they are super neccesary if you wish to deep strike being that they cant move after deepstriking so no jink