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Made in us
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior





1 lascannon would hit on .66 so times 2: 1.32
1 twin linked would be .88 so that would be total 2.2 rounding down is closer.
Against AV 12 you would glance/pen: 1.33
Two predators he is roughly taking down 1 vehicle at front or side arc and out in the open turn one.
Your turn one would be
Serpent shield 4.5 average S7 hits twin linked by scatter laser
Hits: 4
On front 13: .66 glances
On side 11: 2 glances/pens
3 wave serpents that ignore cover
All hitting front is 1.98
All hitting side is 6
Fire prism lances (strength 9 ap 1 if I recall)
Hits: .66
On front 13(12): .33
On side 11: .44
I'm not sure if fire prism have another weapon but 2 in your list
.66 on front armor
.88 on side
So if you position correctly you have both his tank destroyed before he sees turn 1. And if you include guide into it (I'm like 70 percent you can do that to vehicles) then the numbers go up.

3k (roughly)
4k
2k 
   
Made in us
Furious Raptor




This thread is just people shouting down anything not a dakka forum netlist and people debating basic probability.

taking 2 max gaurdian squads to deploy on turn 2-3 as large DS screens can limit his deployment options. Keep tanks lined up with the board edge so he can't get rear armor until t4 or so. Karandas is a monster in CC, and if he's pushing anyway, put Karandas somewhere and wait.

Avatars ignore melta and will eat his squads.
   
Made in ca
Furious Fire Dragon




 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Anyway, the whole "BA suck vs Eldar" debate comes down to this - the best lists you can put out in an Eldar army are significantly better than the best lists a BA army can put out. This is pretty much a fact, if only due to their ridiculous 5th ed pricing compared to 6th ed Eldar prices..


I'd just like to point out that eldar models in general cost more points in their current book then in their previous book. However each model is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful then it used to be. I blame bladestorm and battle focus on the infantry front.
   
Made in fi
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
the best lists you can put out in an Eldar army are significantly better than the best lists a BA army can put out.

The problem is that even the worst Eldar lists have a decent chance against anything from BA (maybe if we disregard Raven spam).

Banshees, Storm Guardians, Falcons, etc.

4000p
1500p

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Made in au
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

BA deathstars are entirely underwhelming. Death company is the only reasonable choice, and it smushes one unit then gets removed.

 
   
Made in fi
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





TH/SS Termies with Corbulo and Divination support would be my best bet.

4000p
1500p

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Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

 soomemafia wrote:
TH/SS Termies with Corbulo and Divination support would be my best bet.

This. Corbulo is the best cheese in the BA book (mozzarella ), although he's doomed when the next update rolls around.

If you want to maximize your chances with BA, take Corbulo, Libby, maybe Mephiston, Fragnoughts, 6x Preds, etc.

   
Made in fi
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
 soomemafia wrote:
TH/SS Termies with Corbulo and Divination support would be my best bet.

This. Corbulo is the best cheese in the BA book (mozzarella ), although he's doomed when the next update rolls around.

If you want to maximize your chances with BA, take Corbulo, Libby, maybe Mephiston, Fragnoughts, 6x Preds, etc.

Are you referring to 6x Predators in double FOC, or 3x Predators and 3x Baal Predators?

4000p
1500p

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Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

 soomemafia wrote:
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
 soomemafia wrote:
TH/SS Termies with Corbulo and Divination support would be my best bet.

This. Corbulo is the best cheese in the BA book (mozzarella ), although he's doomed when the next update rolls around.

If you want to maximize your chances with BA, take Corbulo, Libby, maybe Mephiston, Fragnoughts, 6x Preds, etc.

Are you referring to 6x Predators in double FOC, or 3x Predators and 3x Baal Predators?

Preds + Baal Preds.

   
Made in fi
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
 soomemafia wrote:
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
 soomemafia wrote:
TH/SS Termies with Corbulo and Divination support would be my best bet.

This. Corbulo is the best cheese in the BA book (mozzarella ), although he's doomed when the next update rolls around.

If you want to maximize your chances with BA, take Corbulo, Libby, maybe Mephiston, Fragnoughts, 6x Preds, etc.

Are you referring to 6x Predators in double FOC, or 3x Predators and 3x Baal Predators?

Preds + Baal Preds.


Gotcha!

And I must agree, our vehicles still rock! Being able to move 6" to a better position and still shoot (or move 12" to fire those two Lascannons at side armor) is underestimated IMO.
Fast vehicles are one of our few advantages, so might as well use them.

4000p
1500p

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Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Anyway, the whole "BA suck vs Eldar" debate comes down to this - the best lists you can put out in an Eldar army are significantly better than the best lists a BA army can put out. This is pretty much a fact, if only due to their ridiculous 5th ed pricing compared to 6th ed Eldar prices.

Also, just because we say the army sucks doesn't mean it can't win. It just means that you're fighting at a significant disadvantage.

It's not even fair to say that, at this point. That is the regular explanation of why one army is better than another, but here, you are literally comparing the codex with the least amount of bad stuff to the codex with the least amount of good stuff. You could take the very worst units in the Eldar army and compete with BAs best. Anyone losing to BA with Eldar needs to not look at list building, but their gameplay. Nothing wrong with this, but they are playing badly, this is something that can be changed by putting thought behind your decisions and gameplay. However, saying things like "I don't do bubblewrap" just because, when it's literally a game changing technique your list can employ, or describing "he loves to roll hits on scatter dice" as one of the things your opponent does to get an advantage over your Eldar, instead of focusing on area denial for deep strike counter, well all you are shooting with your high tech ancient ancestral weaponry, is yourself. In the foot.

Prioritise targets better and work on hiding important units you think he is capable of killing easily. You somehow seem to be struggling in the battle of attrition (which is weird) so just focus highly on positioning, and work out what is winning games for him and kill the units. Remember, shooting where you can kill the most points is not always shooting where you could have done the most damage. You totally got this bro. I have faith in you, and that you can somehow find a way beat BA with Eldar

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control




Southampton, New Jersey

This post is gold. I have no idea why I clicked on it, probably cause it has BA in the title and I wanted a laugh. And... I got it. I want to give a shout out for everyone making this possible. Also, I want to thank God and my mother.

I do respect the amount of respect he gives his FRIEND'S BA. Not even his army and he's defending it tooth and nail. From an Eldar player perspective, I'd fix up your list. I'm kind of jealous you're playing Eldar in 2014. It's a good place to be. From a BA player perspective, I bought an assault squad once. Once.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Eastern Washington

Nice idea on the DS LR. I don't play with a lot of transports outside of DPs, but can't Tac squads in rhinos get some USRs from ICs? Like outflank & infiltrate?

I think the OP has the luxury of playing a fluffy list, and doesn't understand it. Its been said that a loss teaches you more than a win. And when you play eldar you win a lot. With that perspective I think you've mistaken a surprise loss as a defeat from a competitive army.

Koudos to you for playing fluffy. But the internet is not a place to talk fluffy lists/ideas. The "competitive" sharks will come out & bite you. Martels got a lot of experience in an overly competitive meta, so don't take it personally. All BAs players who have to play against eldar regularly about one loss away from a smashing tiny plastic space elves fit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/27 17:17:40


4,000 Word Bearers 1,500 
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

 SHUPPET wrote:
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Anyway, the whole "BA suck vs Eldar" debate comes down to this - the best lists you can put out in an Eldar army are significantly better than the best lists a BA army can put out. This is pretty much a fact, if only due to their ridiculous 5th ed pricing compared to 6th ed Eldar prices.

Also, just because we say the army sucks doesn't mean it can't win. It just means that you're fighting at a significant disadvantage.

It's not even fair to say that, at this point. That is the regular explanation of why one army is better than another, but here, you are literally comparing the codex with the least amount of bad stuff to the codex with the least amount of good stuff. You could take the very worst units in the Eldar army and compete with BAs best. Anyone losing to BA with Eldar needs to not look at list building, but their gameplay. Nothing wrong with this, but they are playing badly, this is something that can be changed by putting thought behind your decisions and gameplay. However, saying things like "I don't do bubblewrap" just because, when it's literally a game changing technique your list can employ, or describing "he loves to roll hits on scatter dice" as one of the things your opponent does to get an advantage over your Eldar, instead of focusing on area denial for deep strike counter, well all you are shooting with your high tech ancient ancestral weaponry, is yourself. In the foot.

I only clarified that because I know what it's like to be a newbie coming to Dakka and getting super-disheartened when everything you thought you knew about 40k was wrong. Of course, eventually if they stick around long enough they'll realize what we mean and why we're right. People need to get acclimatized to our level of awesome.

   
Made in us
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant




Texas

Martel732 wrote:
BA don't have a deathstar build. One of the reasons they suck.


Closest is Curbulo in front of TH/SS termis. That is decent.

4000+ Points
Tau: 1500ish



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