Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In the UM book Night Bringer they accidentally release him at the end of the book, with the fluff changed with the necrodermis caging a piece of the c'tan in a shard and have ascendant / unchained c'tan was the night bringer they found a shard or the real thing (or just old fluff meets new and oops)?

Id say that no longer happened unless you ignore ward that is.

BL novels are not all that connected to the rules of the game, or information presented in a Codex. Any connection that appears is likely accidental.

 Whereswaldo wrote:
In the UM book Night Bringer they accidentally release him at the end of the book, with the fluff changed with the necrodermis caging a piece of the c'tan in a shard and have ascendant / unchained c'tan was the night bringer they found a shard or the real thing (or just old fluff meets new and oops)?

I'd say it was a shard if it happened at all, since I don't like Uriel Ventris or his series much I'd by happy to just ignore it.
Being a shard would help explain away the embarrassing meltabomb incident though.

I'd say it was all a nightmare Idaeus had, Ventris never took Captaincy.

 Psienesis wrote:
BL novels are not all that connected to the rules of the game, or information presented in a Codex. Any connection that appears is likely accidental.

I dunno I've been seeing a lot more quiet referances to books etc in various codexes of late.

I'm not a big ventris fan either I ended up reading it because I loved storm of iron. The NB part was ok but with the way fluff has been changing I was wondering.

The easiest way to go about it, is just imagine it's a Shard now, instead of the full C'tan.

Both the nightbringer and deceiver are not shards, one because the book came out before the concept and hasn't been retconned directly (nightbringer) and he is shown as controlling necron tech (his vessel) and not the other way round.

The other (deceiver) is a later retcon of a retcon, deceiver may have been sharded in line with the other necron c'tan but is shown as full on deceiver in the cypher dex, also all that old deceiver fluff is still around and there is no way the crons would release a shard to go wherever and do whatever it wants (ref: eating the callidus assassin)

Tis but an especially powerful shard.

 Formosa wrote:
Both the nightbringer and deceiver are not shards, one because the book came out before the concept and hasn't been retconned directly (nightbringer) and he is shown as controlling necron tech (his vessel) and not the other way round.

The other (deceiver) is a later retcon of a retcon, deceiver may have been sharded in line with the other necron c'tan but is shown as full on deceiver in the cypher dex, also all that old deceiver fluff is still around and there is no way the crons would release a shard to go wherever and do whatever it wants (ref: eating the callidus assassin)

The necrons didn't quite catch every shard of the C'tan.

The Deceiver was also supposedly the weakest of all the C'Tan, so if he hasn't been pokeballed, then it still makes sense that he isn't as powerful as any of the other full-powered C'Tan are supposed to be.

The Nightbringer on the other hand was the second most powerful C'Tan after the Void Dragon, and really has to be a shard by new codex standards.



P.s. Typing out C'Tan so many times on a mobile device is really, really annoying.

I lol'ed at "pokeballed".

One of the many wonderful screw-ups that Ward created when he changed the Necron fluff.

There was another story, done by Andy Chambers (so I'd trust him to know the Necron background at the time), where a creature disguising himself as an Adeptus Mechanicus agent is spotted as not being human and the real AdMech guy says something like, "You're a Necron!" and gets the response, "No, you mistake the slave for the master." (Or something like that.) Which basically says not only is this a C'tan walking around, disguising himself, but also that the Necrons were the C'tan's slaves, not the other way around.

The Shard fluff annoys me immensely. It also wrecked things like the story of the Blackstone Fortresses, whose actual title was the Talismans of Vaul. The reason there were six of them, who had the power to destroy a star together, was that the Eldar needed that kind of weaponry to fight the C'tan. So now that the Necrons were the ones who turned on the C'tan and beat them, it makes the Blackstone Fortress story not really fit in... and they were a major part of the story of the Gothic Sector.

But hey, Ward doesn't care. He just wanted to write his own fluff and make up whatever and not even care.

In my view, there are non-sharded C'tan out there, and C'tan who are piecing themselves back together. Nightbringer really was woken up, the Dragon is still sleeping on Mars, Deceiver is a right jerk who might even be masquerading as the Laughing God for giggles (IIRC, there's fluff that attributes the C'tan being tricked into attacking each other to both Deceiver and the Laughing God).

It's all kind of a jumbled mess, really.

The Necrons were the C'Tan's slaves, prior to the Necron rebellion. Why would a C'Tan admit to some primate that it, a star-god, was defeated by its slave-race?

The Eldar were fighting the C'Tan, prior to the Necron rebellion. The Blackstone Fortresses date back to the War in Heaven. That the C'Tan later got sharded by the Necrons does not change the function or usage of the Blackstone Fortresses.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Necrons were the C'Tan's slaves, prior to the Necron rebellion. Why would a C'Tan admit to some primate that it, a star-god, was defeated by its slave-race?

The Eldar were fighting the C'Tan, prior to the Necron rebellion. The Blackstone Fortresses date back to the War in Heaven. That the C'Tan later got sharded by the Necrons does not change the function or usage of the Blackstone Fortresses.

It does mean they have no significance to people anymore.

 ErikSetzer wrote:
Which basically says not only is this a C'tan walking around, disguising himself, but also that the Necrons were the C'tan's slaves, not the other way around.

Or a shard walking around, being deluded and/or lying.

 ErikSetzer wrote:
The reason there were six of them, who had the power to destroy a star together, was that the Eldar needed that kind of weaponry to fight the C'tan. So now that the Necrons were the ones who turned on the C'tan and beat them, it makes the Blackstone Fortress story not really fit in... and they were a major part of the story of the Gothic Sector.

I don't see how the Necrons beating them with super weapons precludes the Eldar forging their own super weapons for the purpose of beating them as well. They never managed to use them to kill any C'tan in the old fluff either.

pm713 wrote:
It does mean they have no significance to people anymore.

Except for their destructive potential.

 greg0985 wrote:


The Nightbringer on the other hand was the second most powerful C'Tan after the Void Dragon, and really has to be a shard by new codex standards.

Not correct. I'd wager that The Outsider is the second-strongest or even strongest C'Tan out there as his mere presence managed to scare an entire Tyranid Hive Fleet off.

The Void Dragon is certainly sharded, in any case, as its machine-controlling properties are one of those listed in Codex: Necron that you can purchase for whatever C'Tan shard your army possesses.

 Whereswaldo wrote:
In the UM book Night Bringer they accidentally release him at the end of the book, with the fluff changed with the necrodermis caging a piece of the c'tan in a shard and have ascendant / unchained c'tan was the night bringer they found a shard or the real thing (or just old fluff meets new and oops)?

The C'tan are indeed reforming, it's in the Apocalypse Rules under Divine Intervention. The Nightbringer and the Deceiver are reforming slowly over time as shards are destroyed and thus release the splinter of the C'tan within. The Imperium is truly in a dire situation whenever that happens, although the question remains on what side of the battlefield will the Necrons stand.

The answer can literally be whatever you want it to be. We've long had hints that the C'tan might be awakening (not just the Nightbringer, but we have plenty of short story excerpts about the Deceiver as well.) and its still pretty open ended and 'up to inteprretation' whether it is just shards or actual C'tan 'active'. You could even split the difference - maybe the actual Deceiver is awake and full C'tan (the Deceiver deceiving the Silent King into thinking he was destroyed? UNPOSSIBLE!) and its the Nightbringer who is just a shard, or an ascendant shard, or whatever.

This isn't a case of absolutes, or it must be one way or another. Define the answer however you like.

i thinks that there are still 4 Full c'tans out there one for each blackstone i think, the Deceiver was the weakest, the nightbringer was one of the strongest but as the Uriel book's states almost starved off while trapped in it's tomb (thanks to the eldar), there still the Void Dragon and the Outsider

as for the Necrons turning on their masters, their "gods" we should remember that the C'tans were fighting each other in a cannibalistic frenzy, so they wouldn't think about betrayal of that scale and once they were splitted into "shards" by the most advanced tech ever existed they simply forgot that they could put up a fight, afterall their bodies were designed by the necron'tyr themselves

The Void Dragon is definitely sharded, with a large(ish) shard trapped and starving on Mars.

It's all a trick by the Deceiver. The C'Tan are fine, the Necrons just think they're sharded. The Deceiver is out doing stuff while the rest of them sleep. :Thumbsup:

I want to believe.

Say what you will, it's still better than Ward.

Nah, I think the Newcrons are a much more interesting faction than Undead Terminators.

It's all a ploy by Alpharius.

Necrons are actually Alpha Legion.