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Lately ive had a bad feeling about the new ork codex and it started when the new AM codex came out. Ive been thinking conservatively about how good the new codex will be for awhile, since 6th editoon is so shooting based and that tau, eldar, and deathstars are hard for orks to deal with. That being said I think the release of IG before orks will kill the next book. Everything the new IG csn do counters the core strengths of Orks. They have shootong to kill your AV and tons of firepower to kill boyz (fking Wyverns). I just dont see the Ork codex getting enough buffs to be able to survive in a world of IG, tau, eldar and deamons.

TableTopJosh wrote:
Lately ive had a bad feeling about the new ork codex and it started when the new AM codex came out. Ive been thinking conservatively about how good the new codex will be for awhile, since 6th editoon is so shooting based and that tau, eldar, and deathstars are hard for orks to deal with. That being said I think the release of IG before orks will kill the next book. Everything the new IG csn do counters the core strengths of Orks. They have shootong to kill your AV and tons of firepower to kill boyz (fking Wyverns). I just dont see the Ork codex getting enough buffs to be able to survive in a world of IG, tau, eldar and deamons.

I think the worst thing that could have happened to Orks was being released BEFORE guard. Now, I think the Design team will at least ensure that Orks won't be steamrolled by Guard. I'm guessing KFF will go to an Invuln to help with Wyverns. But people said Guard were doomed right after Nids came out... I think it is way too early to tell. And "I have a bad feeling about this" usually isn't a great indicator to be honest.

Wyverns seem cruley tailored to kill orks. I feel like those, combined with Priests and better orders, will make orks a struggle.
Orks have never loved IG. That's nothing new. Last codex had cheaper Manticores and stuff. The IG has pie templates, a crap ton of shooting, and bodies. Plus the ability to kill tanks and fliers while keeping their own alive.

But seriously. The priests and Wyverns are designed to kill orks it seems. Priests give a huge blob fearless, hatred, and either reroll failed wound or failed armor saves.

And Wyverns, with TL, Ignores Cover, reroll to wound, Small Blast, 4 shot, Barrage. That's a shedload of rules for like 65 points or something

I've been having bad feelings since 6th came out. Whats new

"Wyverns seem cruley tailored to kill orks"

Don't worry, they kill marines pretty good too. Especially marines with the wargear that get barrage sniped out. Regular meqs are the new Orks, we just don't get the numbers.

@Jifel, in my opinion im not sure how much GW will pay attention to how IG will affect the gane and release.of Orks. Also i think a lot of people have similar feeling becasue of the current state of the game. I know everything in the ccurrent ork codex in and out and to me, its going to take a lot of new rules and changes to make them competitive.

Although on the flip side, seeing how GW gave IG new and cheap powerful tools to fix their problems, gives me some hope.
Then again the old IG were never bad and have a solid core of units to survive in this edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
"Wyverns seem cruley tailored to kill orks"

Don't worry, they kill marines pretty good too. Especially marines with the wargear that get barrage sniped out. Regular meqs are the new Orks, we just don't get the numbers.

At least you dont bring 30 guys to deliver one with a PK that is so easily killed in shooting and challenges haha

Martel seriously, you can't complain here.


I already felt like Orks were doomed ever since Thunderfires have been around. One of those can easily kill a 20 man boyz squad in one turn. Wyverns are just the extra slap to the face. Sure they kill MEQs, but Orks literally have no chance.

I'm worried they'll try and take Orks in a serious way. Kind of would be disappointed with out the humour.

 herpguy wrote:
Martel seriously, you can't complain here.


I already felt like Orks were doomed ever since Thunderfires have been around. One of those can easily kill a 20 man boyz squad in one turn. Wyverns are just the extra slap to the face. Sure they kill MEQs, but Orks literally have no chance.

I'm not complaining. I'm just saying that most marine lists are equally doomed because of the maths. Orks lose 20, marines lose 6-7 and both are equally crippled.

I think its fairly easy to maintain some level of random orkiness while having any overall competitive book. Having fun with weirsboyz, stormboyz, and shokk attack guns is all good and fun, but jt would also be nice to have competitive options


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I'm not complaining. I'm just saying that most marine lists are equally doomed because of the maths. Orks lose 20, marines lose 6-7 and both are equally crippled.

At least you can pod in and blast those things to hell. We Orks take the much more manly approach walk up to it or ride a flamming transport to it.

 herpguy wrote:
I already felt like Orks were doomed ever since Thunderfires have been around. One of those can easily kill a 20 man boyz squad in one turn. Wyverns are just the extra slap to the face. Sure they kill MEQs, but Orks literally have no chance.

When I once had a single Boy survive a Thunderfire attack, it at least gave me a cinematic moment: that boy standing in the wreckage, green limbs everywhere, covered in blood, cradling what was left of Digga to his chest, a lone tear running down his cheek, as the camera panned to an overhead view:

MORK, WHYYYYY?????????

Later, Brukk thought on it, as Digga lay there dying, pulling the plank over him for cover. "Live, Brukk. Live." Brukk went back to sleep, eyes briefly focusing saw the photos around him - Brukk flying a Deffkopta, Brukk driving a Trukk, Brukk beheading a Grey Knight. Brukk went back to sleep, as Digga now was there only in his dreams, waiting for him.



But anyway, the answer to that, as with almost every conundrum Orks face, remains the same. More Boyz.

That being said I remain very nervous about a new codex, but more from a modelling perspective. I have not been very impressed with majority of the models that have been released as of late, some being rather pants on head - so I hope we don't lame kit.

I'm not to worried about orks. Like guard they sort of have a history of well-developed codices that follow a general theme. Just like how they don't make super huge changes to SM when they get a new codex, the same will be true for orks. If it's anything like what happened to guard, most of the stuff will stay more or less the same, and the crappier parts of the codex will get a discount in points cost.

And I'm not too worried about wyverns for orks. AV12 open-topped is loota bait. And rokkit bait. And anything that hits them with close combat bait.

My guess is that they'll wind up fixing commandos (and possibly, but unlikely, stormboyz) and the other fast, but not often taken ork units, and they'll sort out wyverns in a hurry. Plus, they already don't do much against the best ork builds of bikes (which can easily spread out compared to boyz) and MANz (who just won't care) and battlewaggon spam (likewise).

In any case, I bet that new orks are going to look pretty darn similar to old orks. I wouldn't worry too much.

Allow me to lay out the community's response to the Ork Codex over the next few months:

1) I bet GW will screw it up!
2) Completely and obviously fake rumours leak and the pessimists take it as unquestionable fact
3) Wow I'm quitting, £%&$ you GW! How stupid are they!
4) Legitimate, positive rumours leak, and they're both ignored and downplayed
5) One of the new models looks unsatisfactory - que unending complaints until the next Codex
6) Codex release - "I'm pleased with the changes"
6.5) Wow, they nerfed the auto-take unit? Idiots.
7) Repeat with new Codex

Don't worry. They have a team of incompetent game designers right on that. They will move some point values around, add a stupid model with bad rules, and increase the price per model kit by $10 and call it a day.

Think about the nice slip cover you can buy for $50 for the special edition, though.

And I'm not too worried about wyverns for orks. AV12 open-topped is loota bait. And rokkit bait. And anything that hits them with close combat bait.

This makes no sense. Its a barrage weapon and will be hidden out of los. It will easily make lootas run off the table or kill all of them.

 Ouze wrote:

 herpguy wrote:
I already felt like Orks were doomed ever since Thunderfires have been around. One of those can easily kill a 20 man boyz squad in one turn. Wyverns are just the extra slap to the face. Sure they kill MEQs, but Orks literally have no chance.

When I once had a single Boy survive a Thunderfire attack, it at least gave me a cinematic moment: that boy standing in the wreckage, green limbs everywhere, covered in blood, cradling what was left of Digga to his chest, a lone tear running down his cheek, as the camera panned to an overhead view:

MORK, WHYYYYY?????????

Later, Brukk thought on it, as Digga lay there dying, pulling the plank over him for cover. "Live, Brukk. Live." Brukk went back to sleep, eyes briefly focusing saw the photos around him - Brukk flying a Deffkopta, Brukk driving a Trukk, Brukk beheading a Grey Knight. Brukk went back to sleep, as Digga now was there only in his dreams, waiting for him.

This must continue in Dakka Fiction. If you did, it'd seriously be the second thing in there I've read, and I'm actually requesting this one.

Codex isn't out yet (and doesn't look like it will for a couple months at least) and we're already declaring the new Ork codex as useless?

This has to be a new record.

Thing that sucks about orks is anything tailored to kill another race usually kills orks two-fold. I am a firm believer the sole reason orks are having so much problems is not the ignore cover (though that hurts a lot too dont get me wrong) but the removing from the front. When you remove 1-3 models from a 10man squad, its not that big a deal. Remove 10-12 from a 30man squad, you just pushed me back 3-5 inches at LEAST depending on my spreading. Ive had my boyz stay in the same spot on the board for 2-3 turns before finally dropping low enough to fail morale and running away.

Also, just putting this out there, every codex outside Tau has been immediately viewed as garbage. Eldar were flamed to hell and back because the wraiths in general, not any specific one, looked weak as hell for the cost. So why do i see them all over and actually cause a lot of pain? Cause people dont think something is good unless its broken good.
Nid codex is still viewed as total garbage. Yet my friend that plays nids loves it to death. He misses his T9 Flyrants but he says its a good trade off for what he got lol

If anything im worried about the price hikes not the rules. Our beloved battleforce will lose its $10 discount, meganobz will probably go for a box of 3 for $85 plastic with the kombi options on the side, battlewagons will find some way to skyrocket to nearly $100, i dont even wanna know what a new warboss kit would cost..... and the rumored T-Rex sized squig? probably around 100 and we need 2-3 to be viable like the rest of the ork stuff.

Glad im a good kitbasher lol

TableTopJosh wrote:

And I'm not too worried about wyverns for orks. AV12 open-topped is loota bait. And rokkit bait. And anything that hits them with close combat bait.

This makes no sense. Its a barrage weapon and will be hidden out of los. It will easily make lootas run off the table or kill all of them.

So Kommando bait then

I'm used to my Orks being bombarded off the table by IG, Eldar and Tau anyway.

Not like the Wyvern is going to make much more of a difference

I think they'll nerf battlewagonz. Make them cost like +20 pts. Cause everyone has wagonz now. And lootas.

But i hope that they'll do as good as with ig codex. If you look at it objectively, it's the best 6 ed codex released so far. It's strong but not as needlessly op as, say, eldar. It has some strong combinations but not as broken as daemons. It has hellhuge fearless platoons but they fall apart the moment you snipe out a priest/comissar. And those guyz just have 1 wound, flak armor and 4+ los. Russes became cheaper but they needed it. Vendettas became more expensive but they needed it.

You know what ig players said before the release? They were sure that mechvets would get a nerf cause everyone runs those. And that's exactly what happened. Not totally ruined but mechvet lists didn't get better for sure. And that's what i think. Wagons will get nerfed. Boyz will get stronger - some special rules and probably 6+ fnp armywide. Grots will get cheaper - 2ppm. Bikers will get much cheaper and will loose 4+ cover probably.

I think our dex ain't doomed.

 Ailaros wrote:
I'm not to worried about orks. Like guard they sort of have a history of well-developed codices that follow a general theme. Just like how they don't make super huge changes to SM when they get a new codex, the same will be true for orks. If it's anything like what happened to guard, most of the stuff will stay more or less the same, and the crappier parts of the codex will get a discount in points cost.

Pretty much, the last couple Codices have been copy + paste jobs with minor points changes for the most part. Orks should be the same, with their new units being a mini-Squigoth or maybe a Kustom-Megadred.

It's to early to panic, we get a new codex and a new edition that our codex should be made for.

so we should have all the shiny new toys, 6+ fnp, cheaper boys, and rumors of being able to run and assault again

My biggest fear is that I won't be able to turn ICs into squigs.

Bikes are probably going to go down to 12 points or less if they follow the same pattern as Eldar/SM.. Deffkoptas should also drop in price.

S5 to the AV10 side of an open top wyvern is good enough to get the job done.

Plastic manz will help more people do a manz missile. If going 1st just rocket forward 26", if going 2nd do the same from reserve.

I think 6e ork will be a fast army.

it's all about tactics. he's got a squadron of artillery that kills your orks really easily? bring some rokkit koptas and take 'em out. bring a trukk-rush and watch as he gets one round of firepower off and is then too afraid to shoot your orks as they're too close to his own army. bring snikrot and 2 rokkits and take out the rear armour. bring many, many lootas, in battlewagons, on a skyshield - practically untouchable. heck, bring a fortress of redemption and see how he likes barrage krakstorm missiles and a twin-linked orky lascannon manned by flashgitz to remove cover saves!

we've always got an answer to everything, the only thing now is it's not just 'bring boys and a powerklaw'.

Martel732 wrote:
"Wyverns seem cruley tailored to kill orks"

Don't worry, they kill marines pretty good too. Especially marines with the wargear that get barrage sniped out. Regular meqs are the new Orks, we just don't get the numbers.

FETHING.

FINALLY.

Someone who understands that AP6 =/= won't kill a 3+ save.

Most Ork players already know that

Shootas vs Marine armour. Enough hits = dead marines

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"Wyverns seem cruley tailored to kill orks"

Don't worry, they kill marines pretty good too. Especially marines with the wargear that get barrage sniped out. Regular meqs are the new Orks, we just don't get the numbers.

FETHING.

FINALLY.

Someone who understands that AP6 =/= won't kill a 3+ save.

Do you not read my posts? I'm all about being scared of the wound spam. And my guys sometimes have FNP on top of it. Doesn't help against 36" Eldar death. Won't help against mass wyverns, either. Shred effectively makes this weapon ST 5.5 vs T4. Yeah. Not looking forward to this at all.

I used a full mech guard army against Orks yesterday - Pask punisher + eradicator, 4x Mech vets in chims w/ 2 meltas, 2 hellhounds, an exterminator, and 3 Wyverns.

I went first and took out 2 trukks, 10 lootas, the big mek with SAG, and a whole bunch of boyz. The Wyverns did about 30 wounds total, they're insane... The game was basically over at the end of the first half-turn, and by turn 4 the orks were gone and I had lost a hellhound along with pask and his squadron mate (which I easily could have prevented, it was to an assault I could have moved away from). I would have felt bad if my friend wasn't constantly trash talking haha, Orks are really an awful matchup for guard though.

I'd expect that in a game of the newest codex against the oldest.

We'll see what it looks like come the new one. I'm concerned that, as Guard seem to be solidly good without having gotten anything game-breaking, Orks are going to wind up being a steamroller.