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I've been slowly working towards assembling a IG army, and saw the new Hammer of Cadia set that appears to be a pretty good deal based on individual model price(and a quick way to get 3 LR tanks.).

While debating it I came up with 2 questions since I had never really seen anyone use Hellhounds or their variants all that often in the old editions and haven't played at all yet with 6th edition. Are the Hellhounds and variants decent units for the point cost, and is there preferred build or use for them as a unit?

Also while I'm thinking of the Hammer of Cadia set, where do you find the rules for the Hellhammer?

Thanks.

125 pts, for a fast tank with 12 12 10 and a torrent flamer isnt too bad actually...

I generally got my pts out of them at 130 with all the tau/eldar players out there.

now that the MMelta is cheaper on them, they are a pretty decent threat to vehicles too.

its definetly costed right, if a tad too high, but it is really effective so long as you have proper target saturation.

A list of nothing but russes and hellhounds + some cheap scoring units would probably do pretty well at this point in the meta.

With the decreased cost of the multi melta, the hellhound is quite a great tank. It is dead lethal against xenos, and S6 reliably threatens MEQ. With Side av12 they work well to guard flanks.

The Banewolf still suffers from being tragically short ranged and too expensive for what will essentially be a one shot MEQ killer, while the Devil Dog somehow got more expensive.

The Hellhound is okay, but the Eradicator is cheaper, has AV14, longer range, and can take sponsons.

The whole family still suffers from a combination of being too expensive, and filling roles better filled by other units whether in their own FoC slot or through cheaper means in other slots.

If they were ~100pts, I'd look at them twice, but as they are right now, I'd rather bring arty, russes, and dettas to fill the same roles for cheaper/more efficiently.

The Devil Dog got more expensive because it was clearly overpowered before. It now costs as much as a Vanquisher, which means you will never be using it.

The Banewolf was not changed, and is therefore still terrible.

The Hellhound is as mentioned before, okay, but the Eradicator is just flat out better and is dirt cheap. As in actually 5 points cheaper.

I still like the hound over the eradicator because often my heavies are used for other things, and I like not rolling scatter. That really helps you rack up the wounds. The fast multimelta is just bonus. I'm not sure about their use as a squadron of 2 or 3. It's not bad offensively, you rarely kill everyone with one shot anyway, but defensively some units will rack up a lot of hull points on AV12. That makes it easier to lose two in one round of shooting. The speed, with a rockin, torrent gun does make it easier to put wounds on the flanks of a unit, getting at protected models.

Speaking as an Ork player who regularly plays against the Guard, Hellhounds make me crap myself. It almost always ends up being a priority target simply because of the potential damage it can do if left alone, but the AV12 stops it from being killed easily by most of my ranged weapons. It's especially effective against bikes/deffkoptas because it denies any cover save...

Generally I see them being used to scoot up a flank and threaten the units of lootas and big guns in the rear.

Yeah, they're decent. They're not nearly as heavy hitting as russes for their now greatly reduced price, but they have a bit more flexibility as well.

Russes always strike me as the "I'm going to grind you down until you don't have stuff on the table" while the hellhounds for me always acted more as I "I have a problem: quick, get the hellhound over there!".

135 points for a torrent superflamer and a multimelta is still a pretty good deal, and that side armor of AV12 has come in very, very handy on more than one occasion.

The only real problem is that for the price of a hellhound with a multimelta, you can get an eradicator with a lascannon...

to people saying the eradicator is better...

well its not, you trade av 14 and range, for the loss of AUTO hits with a template that hits more models then a blast template.

so in a fair # of situations it can be better, its not better in all situations, both have a different role.

In fact, they work together extremely well in tandem, ESP since they are different slots.

russes in front for cover and av 14 to protect the HH's.

The HH's do far more damage since they always hit, and cover more models then large blasts will. being fast, range is less of an issue then you would think.

So really, both are viable and effective. what do you want more? durability and range? or speed and more hits+ auto hits?

why not take both, as I said, they work really well together.

I think you already summed up the differences between them, though. With the eradicator, if you can't get to something turn 1, you probably won't get to it by turn 4 or 5 either. The hellhound lets you run around LoS blocking terrain and do some damage. It's also way more fun.

Biophysical wrote:
I think you already summed up the differences between them, though. With the eradicator, if you can't get to something turn 1, you probably won't get to it by turn 4 or 5 either. The hellhound lets you run around LoS blocking terrain and do some damage. It's also way more fun.

yeah... the HH is much more fun...

putting a bunch of crucified skelitions, flames, kill score marks, and insane pyro looking tank drivers looks slightly out of place on a eradicator.

on a HH...


MUAHAHAHAHA BURN XENOS FILTH BURNNNNN


i even made a model and greenstuffed him to be on fire, after your whole squad dies, place him on the table where they were, roll scatter to make him run around. on a hit, he stops drops and rolls.

either way he dies a horrible horrible prometheum laced death

From my experience, Hellhound is really good. He, of course, suffered because he is in same slot as Vendetta. Still, he fulfills different role.

Hellhound can be supereffective if used well. And oh my, I have seen plenty of those not used well. Yeah, its tank, but it doesnt have durability of Leman Russ. Its Fast vehicle, so use it. It doesnt have to be on table first turn. You can keep him in cover, but honestly, he is much better in reserve. Wait for opponent to advance (well, if he is advancing) and then let HH arrive and surge forward with its torrent flamer, or in case of need, MM and pick the right victims. And do not suppose it will survive. HH will charge opponents line, best with some support and wreak havoc. Remember torrent flamer has long reach and because he is Fast, its much easier to get MM against vehicles side/ rear.

Of course, if you have just HH, you can sit him behind ADL and its wasted points or surge forward and see him taken to pieces, because the rest of army stays at home turf. Simply, HH can be devastating, but not as lone charging knight

Im going to try them with Taurox Prime, just not sure which weapon setup. Maybe even with Augur Array so its HH and Taurox with plasma scion command squad and after that deepstriking melta scions. Of course, that is closer to froming whole army different way. Oh and of course vendetta delivering flamer PCS...

The inferno cannon is better than the nova cannon, yes. But the eradicator has longer range, and it has +1 to side armor, and +2 to front armor (AV14 is pretty big), and its hull weapon has longer range, and it can thence buy TWO MORE multimeltas for extremely cheap (or plasma cannons instead), and it can take orders if it's part of a tank command squad.

And that's before the little things like it's cheaper and comes with free smoke launchers, and blocks LOS better, etc.

The main gun may be a little worse, but the vehicle over all is just better, generally.

The only times when I really liked the hellhound was when I was playing with a chimera highland charge, russes clearly being a less obvious choice here.

Thanks for all the input guys. I still don't know if I'll pull the trigger on getting the Hammer of Cadia set, but at least now if I do decide to do it and get my Guard up and running with some tanks I've got a better idea of the effectiveness. From everything I'm reading it is sounding as if they are best held as an aggressive counter punch unit either kept out of LoS or in reserve to rush forward and attack a flank/exposed unit.

It's also good to know that the general feeling on the variants is that it's not really worth it.

wpgguy wrote:
Thanks for all the input guys. I still don't know if I'll pull the trigger on getting the Hammer of Cadia set, but at least now if I do decide to do it and get my Guard up and running with some tanks I've got a better idea of the effectiveness. From everything I'm reading it is sounding as if they are best held as an aggressive counter punch unit either kept out of LoS or in reserve to rush forward and attack a flank/exposed unit.

It's also good to know that the general feeling on the variants is that it's not really worth it.

I'd still not glue the weapons' tips so you can at least switch them easy and have your option open. I simply use a little fun tak to keep'em in place, even do so with the hull weapons. easy to switch nd no fiddling around with magnets and such

 Ailaros wrote:
The inferno cannon is better than the nova cannon, yes. But the eradicator has longer range, and it has +1 to side armor, and +2 to front armor (AV14 is pretty big), and its hull weapon has longer range, and it can thence buy TWO MORE multimeltas for extremely cheap (or plasma cannons instead), and it can take orders if it's part of a tank command squad.

And that's before the little things like it's cheaper and comes with free smoke launchers, and blocks LOS better, etc.

The main gun may be a little worse, but the vehicle over all is just better, generally.

The only times when I really liked the hellhound was when I was playing with a chimera highland charge, russes clearly being a less obvious choice here.

Except the other russes are generally better and you have limited heavy slots, so when I have access to two units that both kill infantry in cover but one occupies a slot that has VASTLY greater competition, the choice becomes harder. I also wouldn't waste points on a hull MM. Keep it stock at 125 and give it a HF in case you need to double wash something or they knock a gun off. a stock HH is much better at its job then a stock eradicator.

I like the eradicator, but I don't think it pairs well with the other variants. I also think the hellhound has much more comparable range, 12" move with 12" torrent is insane, sure the nova canon has good reach but it can't hit what it can't see to target and heavy makes a refused flank deployment with LoSBL terrain much more painful.

I think the eradicator is actually the best match for the Tank commanders unit. It is cheap, an ablative tank and can split fire to something else.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
The inferno cannon is better than the nova cannon, yes. But the eradicator has longer range, and it has +1 to side armor, and +2 to front armor (AV14 is pretty big), and its hull weapon has longer range, and it can thence buy TWO MORE multimeltas for extremely cheap (or plasma cannons instead), and it can take orders if it's part of a tank command squad.

And that's before the little things like it's cheaper and comes with free smoke launchers, and blocks LOS better, etc.

The main gun may be a little worse, but the vehicle over all is just better, generally.

The only times when I really liked the hellhound was when I was playing with a chimera highland charge, russes clearly being a less obvious choice here.

Except the other russes are generally better and you have limited heavy slots, so when I have access to two units that both kill infantry in cover but one occupies a slot that has VASTLY greater competition, the choice becomes harder. I also wouldn't waste points on a hull MM. Keep it stock at 125 and give it a HF in case you need to double wash something or they knock a gun off. a stock HH is much better at its job then a stock eradicator.

I like the eradicator, but I don't think it pairs well with the other variants. I also think the hellhound has much more comparable range, 12" move with 12" torrent is insane, sure the nova canon has good reach but it can't hit what it can't see to target and heavy makes a refused flank deployment with LoSBL terrain much more painful.

I think the eradicator is actually the best match for the Tank commanders unit. It is cheap, an ablative tank and can split fire to something else.

Except now you're competing with Vendettas. I know they went up, but I also know I'm stillbringing a pair.

A pair of wyverns or a LR erradicator is cheaper, but they are a tight and competitive HS slot.

 alarmingrick wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
The inferno cannon is better than the nova cannon, yes. But the eradicator has longer range, and it has +1 to side armor, and +2 to front armor (AV14 is pretty big), and its hull weapon has longer range, and it can thence buy TWO MORE multimeltas for extremely cheap (or plasma cannons instead), and it can take orders if it's part of a tank command squad.

And that's before the little things like it's cheaper and comes with free smoke launchers, and blocks LOS better, etc.

The main gun may be a little worse, but the vehicle over all is just better, generally.

The only times when I really liked the hellhound was when I was playing with a chimera highland charge, russes clearly being a less obvious choice here.

Except the other russes are generally better and you have limited heavy slots, so when I have access to two units that both kill infantry in cover but one occupies a slot that has VASTLY greater competition, the choice becomes harder. I also wouldn't waste points on a hull MM. Keep it stock at 125 and give it a HF in case you need to double wash something or they knock a gun off. a stock HH is much better at its job then a stock eradicator.

I like the eradicator, but I don't think it pairs well with the other variants. I also think the hellhound has much more comparable range, 12" move with 12" torrent is insane, sure the nova canon has good reach but it can't hit what it can't see to target and heavy makes a refused flank deployment with LoSBL terrain much more painful.

I think the eradicator is actually the best match for the Tank commanders unit. It is cheap, an ablative tank and can split fire to something else.

Except now you're competing with Vendettas. I know they went up, but I also know I'm stillbringing a pair.

That's my point, I won't hardly ever take three vendettas now which leaves one slot open. I wouldn't hardly ever take more then one hellhound squadron either, so you see its perfect. On the other hand I also almost always start my lists in the heavy section, which means I fill it really which makes that slot much more competitive. Like I said, I like the eradicator now that its dirt cheap (it was rubbish before IMO) but for me it's place is as a sidekick to a command tank.

 schadenfreude wrote:
A pair of wyverns or a LR erradicator is cheaper, but they are a tight and competitive HS slot.

Saying that the Wyvern competes with a Heavy Support slot is null and void when it comes to Leman Russes. You can have x6 Leman Russes in your HQ slots.

to answer your question about the hell hound it is an amazing tank, however you would not want to waste a multi melta on it. Keep it dedicated for anti-infantry, putting a multi melta on it is a waste as it is designed for hunting infantry not vehicles. Give it a whole heavy flamer or heavy bolter.

in regards to the Eradicator it is a much better vehicle for fire support in the sense it has longer range and can hit as many targets with a large blast as does the flame template, whoever said the flame template automatically hits more is false. personally though I like the hell hound because if you're going to get a Leman Russ you should get something like a Demolisher, executioner, Punisher or main battle tank.

The hellhound is just too expensive for what it does. Against the armies that it does best against, it'll be a huge target, and against all others, they can either absorb the losses or ignore the wounds with saves.

They're not terrible or anything, but there are plenty of good ignores cover options in the AM book now. All either cheaper or more generally useful.

 gmaleron wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
A pair of wyverns or a LR erradicator is cheaper, but they are a tight and competitive HS slot.

Saying that the Wyvern competes with a Heavy Support slot is null and void when it comes to Leman Russes. You can have x6 Leman Russes in your HQ slots.

Sure, you can have 6 Russ in your HQ slots, but that will be at the expense of loosing CCSs and their ability to give orders, especially FomT

 Polonius wrote:
The hellhound is just too expensive for what it does. Against the armies that it does best against, it'll be a huge target, and against all others, they can either absorb the losses or ignore the wounds with saves.

They're not terrible or anything, but there are plenty of good ignores cover options in the AM book now. All either cheaper or more generally useful.

I disagree, its cost appropriately. Against marines it still does work and it ignores AS on most of the current offenders entirely and more importantly ignores cover. SM scouts are being used much more often I find now as well, and this things ruins them from turn one forcing them to reserve. There are other options in the AM/IG book but the hellhound is a huge benefit to certain builds. I personally ally guard to my marines and I field one to help sweep ruins. Its difficult to hit things in ruins under floors with my thunderfires and I don't need the AT or AA from a more pricey vendetta. It also moves where I need it quickly and helps me clear my DZ. I love it, but you need to have it in the right list for sure.