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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/11 10:44:50
Subject: Re:Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker
Behind you...
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koooaei wrote:Except for MC. But yep, they're not horrible. Even a standard helbrute out of a dataslate can be used as gun platform. I prefer Plazma cannon + Missile launcher. Probably Lazcannon + Missile launcher is better but that's the only way to take plazma cannon for CSM for some reason so...
Thats cuz we have ectoplasma cannons (plasma cannons on steriods. [That for some reason make the shooter short sighted.]).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/11 11:06:45
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Agile Revenant Titan
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I'm working on a concept utilizing the Mayhem Dataslate. Can't say it is super effective, but is a bit outside the box to give opponents fits on how to play against it:
Chaos Lord, Burning Skull
Mayhem Pack, 3 w/ Multi Melta, Heavy Flamer, Powerfist
Mayhem Pack, 3 w/ Multi Melta, Powerfist
4 x 10 Cultists
3 x 1 Helldrakes
3 x 1 Maulerfiends
1 x 1 Aegis Defense Line with Comms Relay
A lot depends on what the next edition of 40K brings. If Troops are still super important for scoring, then I may drop 1 Helldrake to ensure I can get 6 Troop choices. The new psychic phase is another area of contention as I'm unsure if having some psyker will be a near auto take to try and nullify powers.
But, the meat of the army lies in all the armor and several with 5+ inv saves and It will not Die.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/11 11:07:37
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/11 11:36:23
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Id drop 1 mayhem pack for 3 Helcults if you want max brutes and still want cultists why not make them all fearless.
could maybe take a warpsmith to cure any immobilised results
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/11 21:00:10
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Agile Revenant Titan
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Good point regarding the Hellcults.
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No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/18 22:06:56
Subject: Re:Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Spawn of Chaos
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One thing I like to do is have a Helbrute run along side a Rhino full of troops. You can shoot at the Helbrute and then get shot/assaulted by the troops. Or you can shoot the Rhino and then deal with the Helbrute for a bit until the rest of the troops catch up. I like this tactic for when I'm building a list and I find that I have like 130 or so points left and its just natural to throw one in. I typically don't use two, I'll use a squad of 4 spawn and a librarian on a bike or a Khorne lord on a Juggernaut to run with another Rhino full of troops (usually plague marines but sometimes standard CSM).
I did use a TLLC/Missile Launcher Helbrute in a game last week and thought it was sort of lacking. My opponent however, pointed out that for his low points I was able to put down at least 1 hull point of damage a turn with him. Not bad considering his low points.
Since I usually don't have ANY elite choices with the army I play it might pay to put a full compliment of TLLC/Missile Launcher Helbrutes in to add some long range fire power. Just some ideas I've been kicking around.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/18 22:25:03
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
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Why don't the hellbrutes have the option for marks of the chaos gods? Or any of the chaos engines really.
It would increase their performance in several ways and tie them more in with the theme of peoples armies.
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~ Krieg 6k
~ Necrons 2.5k
~ Space Wolves 5K
~ :Khorne CSM 2k
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/18 23:10:22
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Indiana
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Helbrutes issues are more to do with the walker rules than anything else.
If walkers get fixed in 7th then helbrutes would be good as well
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/19 00:34:01
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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Leth wrote:Helbrutes issues are more to do with the walker rules than anything else.
If walkers get fixed in 7th then helbrutes would be good as well
I dont mind Hellbrutes being Walkers honestly..
I DO MIND that Riptides are MCs and not walkers... (What part of being 90% mechanical in nature makes you a Monstrous Creature exactly? You aren't spiritually being possessed by a dead body neither, so, you by all rights should be a fething machine)
If Hellbrutes simply had the Daemon treatment but retained the BS4, possibly had access to the various Vehicle Weapons upgrades CSM have a nifty list for.
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
11,000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/19 00:36:49
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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Helbrutes are good for lots of things.
Winning games just isn't one of them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/19 00:49:00
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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BlaxicanX wrote:Helbrutes are good for lots of things.
Winning games just isn't one of them.
I cant agree with that.
I ran 2 squadrons of the Mayhem Packs landing them behind enemy lines of a Tau player (My good friend, and VERY GOOD tactician) he simply couldn't deal with them once they landed.
With the new rules they gain in these dataslates, they have become dangerous BAMFs Both squads had TL LCs and Powerfists. I shot up his 2 Hammerheads he kept behind his Defense Line, then blew up his Skyray. The second squad basically went after his Riptides.
They have great potential in Hellcult formations as well from my eperience. Again, against my Tau friend I simply walked my squadron across the board, separated the things I knew he'd try to run away with (Riptides) cornered them, charged, and murdered them. They have their places in lists run by competent generals.
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
11,000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/19 01:02:30
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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No offense, but if your friend couldn't handle a bunch of AV12-11-10 landing in his deployment zone, he either wasn't playing the most competitive Tau list, or just wasn't playing it very well. Also sounds like your success was based off a lot of luck. Three helbrutes firing TLLC at a hammerhead behind an ADL are going to take off only a single hull-point in a round of shooting on average, and all three shooting have only a 7% chance of penning it and blowing it up. If you deep-struck behind his ADL, then again that's a sign of a deployment error on his part. If he knows you're bring a mass deepstrike army, why deploy his ADL and tanks so far toward the center of the map that you have enough space to deep-strike behind him and deny his cover save? A good tau player would have castled up everything he had in a corner of his deployment zone, forcing you to deep-strike right in front of his army, then light you up with everything he had. With markerlighted hammerheads penning your brutes on 3's and his riptides going to down, he would have trashed your six helbrutes quite easily.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/05/19 01:11:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/19 05:35:44
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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BlaxicanX wrote:No offense, but if your friend couldn't handle a bunch of AV12-11-10 landing in his deployment zone, he either wasn't playing the most competitive Tau list, or just wasn't playing it very well.
Also sounds like your success was based off a lot of luck. Three helbrutes firing TLLC at a hammerhead behind an ADL are going to take off only a single hull-point in a round of shooting on average, and all three shooting have only a 7% chance of penning it and blowing it up.
If you deep-struck behind his ADL, then again that's a sign of a deployment error on his part. If he knows you're bring a mass deepstrike army, why deploy his ADL and tanks so far toward the center of the map that you have enough space to deep-strike behind him and deny his cover save? A good tau player would have castled up everything he had in a corner of his deployment zone, forcing you to deep-strike right in front of his army, then light you up with everything he had. With markerlighted hammerheads penning your brutes on 3's and his riptides going to down, he would have trashed your six helbrutes quite easily.
Because sitting in a corner when the game calls for a Relic is totally viable right?
No offense, but if you think he can sit in a corner all game behind his ADL and NOT have to move everything, there might be a problem with what you expect out of Tau =/
Secondly, if you aren't playing on a board that actually prevents LoS and actually forces your opponent to move his models, you aren't playing 40k anymore. You're wasting your time with a stop watch counting the amount of turns it takes for opponents to wipe you off the board.
He had to move his Hammerheads to get better position and draw LoS, which in the end, cost him those said vehicles. Do you expect people to just lay down for you? Cmon man... Think. Turn 3 he had to move. I took advantage of that. Tactical error on his part? Not when the game is 100% luck based. Did I get lucky with a Deep Strike? Yup. Does that make him a bad player? Hell No. Does that make you a bit of a dick for saying he is? Hell yes.
And just another thing, I don't know what kind of Tau you're letting markerlight you, but you might want to factor in some misses into your calculations. I've seen more Misses from Hammerheads than I have 3+s to Explode. Hell, I've seen more Land Raiders get killed by Haywire Grenades than I have seen Hammerheads blowing stuff up lol
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/19 05:37:38
Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
11,000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/19 06:11:34
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
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Helcults have made both my helbrutes and my cultists exponentially better. Helbrute gets auto-rage and a 3+ cover save, cultists lose the only glaring weakness they ever had: bad leadership. Both of them can march up the board, the helbrute hiding behind a wave of expendable wounds, and when they crash into an enemy the brute can either tag in and end it or move past whatever was defending the opponent's backfield and punch out some juicy targets.
Mayhem formations take a little more planning to use properly. I've found they work best when combined with Helcults and maulerfiends, so that when they land its in the middle of an av12 saturated field. They can sometimes spend half the game being useless though. Either they go into fire frenzy when they DS and get murdered by a couple ordnance blasts, or don't come in until turn 4 and then go into a rage and run around aimlessly.
Haven't used the Helmurder murderpack of murderers yet. A few more dreads and I'd run two of them just for laughs, but as is that's just too many eggs in one basket.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/19 06:16:26
Subject: Re:Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
Canada
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has enyone ever run typhus + helcult dataslate? an army of plague zombies following around a hellbrute and typhus. basically you have a wall of ablative wounds that will be tough to shed and then two cc units nestled inside that will use boot on face when they get to you
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DA army: 3500pts,
admech army: 600pts
ravenguard: 565 pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/19 06:54:20
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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I've considered that a few times ionusx.
Since you can put him with 1 of the squads of Zombies and get even MORE wounds added to the pile.
I also considered taking the FW rules for Necrosius the Undying (IIRC) to give all the Zombies on the board Furious Charge. But that's more for giggles.
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
11,000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/19 07:38:27
Subject: Re:Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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ionusx wrote:has enyone ever run typhus + helcult dataslate? an army of plague zombies following around a hellbrute and typhus. basically you have a wall of ablative wounds that will be tough to shed and then two cc units nestled inside that will use boot on face when they get to you
You get zombies mostly because they're fearless more than anything else, that FnP and free MoN isn't quite as tasty as you'd think it would be.
You take the Helcult mostly because it makes the Cultists fearless and gives the Helbrute a nice buff, while the Cultists get a boost if they die before the Brute does.
I dunno, the Zombies seem to overlap too much with what the Helcultists already get while losing out on the chance to shoot things or run. And sure, Cultist dakka isn't very impressive by anyone's standards, but they can put down a healthy amount of it.
I suppose that being Zombies would enhance their capacity as tarpits though.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/19 08:36:43
Subject: Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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GoliothOnline wrote:Because sitting in a corner when the game calls for a Relic is totally viable right? You said you deep-struck your forces into his deployment zone. I'm assuming that happened turn 2 or 3, no? You don't need to spend the entire game castled, just long enough to counter your opponent's deep-striking. It's called counter-deployment. No offense, but if you think he can sit in a corner all game behind his ADL and NOT have to move everything, there might be a problem with what you expect out of Tau =/
It doesn't matter what game type it is. There is no reason hammerheads should ever leave your deployment zone. With their range, you can pretty much sit them behind an ADL for the entire game. Secondly, if you aren't playing on a board that actually prevents LoS and actually forces your opponent to move his models, you aren't playing 40k anymore.
You said you deep-struck into his deployment zone. If you're trying to alpha-strike him, LoS blocking terrain is irrelevant. You need LoS to what you want to alpha-strike, that means he's going to have LoS to shoot you back. Furthermore, if there's as much LoS blocking terrain as you say, how is there enough room on the board for you to deep-strike SIX helbrutes and have LoS to his army with all of them? It seems to me that either the goal-post is being moved or there's something about this anecdote where you mass deep-struck all your helbrutes and annihilated his army that I'm missing.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/05/19 09:29:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/19 10:47:08
Subject: Re:Are Hellbrutes good for anything?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kain wrote:
You get zombies mostly because they're fearless more than anything else, that FnP and free MoN isn't quite as tasty as you'd think it would be.
Zombies do not get mark of nurgle and in fact cannot take it either since they are not allowed upgrades.
Badablack wrote: Either they go into fire frenzy when they DS and get murdered by a couple ordnance blasts, or don't come in until turn 4 and then go into a rage and run around aimlessly.
Mayhem pack all arrive at the same time but they do not have to deep strike together and they are not a single squadron/unit.
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