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 Rismonite wrote:

 Archangel-Dreadnought wrote:
Big Meks with Shokk attack guns suck, they always kill themselves.

I've had him kill himself three games in a row, twice in a row on turn one. Also causing the grots he was with to fail leadership and route. Fourth game he launched himself at my foe to actually draw firstblood but eventually gave my opponent slay the warlord. Anecdotal? He sat on the shelf for a month I was soo mad.

You just need to roll better

"Nah man, MSS aren't OP. A terminator killed my Destroyer Lord with a Thunderhammer once" - every necron player ever

"Hounds are super undercosted. I killed 800 points of Tau in one turn with them one time"- me

hotsauceman1 wrote:"Grav guns are useless because horde armies exist"

See quote below.

BlaxicanX wrote:
None of these are anecdotes.

Guys, I'm looking for *anecdotes* used as arguments, not anecdotes of arguments. We all know that idiot who thinks 3+ saves are worthless because helturkey. I'm not looking for that.

Here's an actual anecdote:

"I don't take tactical marines because this one time, I had 3 saves to take on two dudes and I failed two of them. That really soured my opinion of them."

Another one I heard:

In response to being told to lower the quality of his army
"I don't get why people think wraithknights are so unfair. I remember once, I played this guy who was using those imperial guard snipers. What are they called?"
[Ratlings?]
"Yeah, he shot me first turn, did 5 wounds and two rends and I failed the saves. See, they die nice and easy. I don't need to take him out."

OK, I'll change mine from

Tactical are bad because Riptides exist

into

Tacticals are bad because I lost a whole squad to a Riptide.

Better?

I could just make one now if you wanted.

Riptides are bad because the last time I fought one with my sisters it failed it's nova charge pretty much every single turn and killed maybe a small handful of battle sisters. In the end I killed it by ramming it with a Rhino; it continued to be useless by failing death or glory and was killed without even having a single weapon pointed at it. Thus riptides are overpriced and far less useful than the crisis suit teams which managed to do a fair chunk of damage.

"Why are you taking a russ? Last time I had mine out I managed to kill my own squadron of russes with three scattered blasts, they are just simply useless. "

-Overheard over a guy arguing with someone making their list.

Heldrake is good cos' it's cheesy.

Zog off kids at FLGS.

 n0t_u wrote:
I could just make one now if you wanted.

Riptides are bad because the last time I fought one with my sisters it failed it's nova charge pretty much every single turn and killed maybe a small handful of battle sisters. In the end I killed it by ramming it with a Rhino; it continued to be useless by failing death or glory and was killed without even having a single weapon pointed at it. Thus riptides are overpriced and far less useful than the crisis suit teams which managed to do a fair chunk of damage.

Oh yes, that was a good game wasn't it?

 Krellnus wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
I could just make one now if you wanted.

Riptides are bad because the last time I fought one with my sisters it failed it's nova charge pretty much every single turn and killed maybe a small handful of battle sisters. In the end I killed it by ramming it with a Rhino; it continued to be useless by failing death or glory and was killed without even having a single weapon pointed at it. Thus riptides are overpriced and far less useful than the crisis suit teams which managed to do a fair chunk of damage.

Oh yes, that was a good game wasn't it?

Which you still won, but the important thing was it wasn't your Riptide.

 n0t_u wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
I could just make one now if you wanted.

Riptides are bad because the last time I fought one with my sisters it failed it's nova charge pretty much every single turn and killed maybe a small handful of battle sisters. In the end I killed it by ramming it with a Rhino; it continued to be useless by failing death or glory and was killed without even having a single weapon pointed at it. Thus riptides are overpriced and far less useful than the crisis suit teams which managed to do a fair chunk of damage.

Oh yes, that was a good game wasn't it?

Which you still won, but the important thing was it wasn't your Riptide.

Of course, worst unit ever.

"You're TFG, and your army is super cheesy; it's only Terminators!"
I was playing Deathwing in 5th with the old codex.

"Necrons are OP, I wrecked a Baneblade with Rapid Fire once." That was me. Similarly: "1K sons are OP, 4 of them swept a 20 man warrior squad and a Lord!" Yeah, me again. In my defence, I was an utter noob with no idea of balance.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
"Nah man, MSS aren't OP. A terminator killed my Destroyer Lord with a Thunderhammer once" - every necron player ever

This.... heh.... heh....



Honestly the closest I think I can get was that one Apoc game against an opponent and even though he took out a super heavy turn 1 with Gauss shooting apparently an already glanced Monolith from a lascannon shot, that moved a few inches then was glanced 3 times by the lifta droppa wagon was cheesy and OP and how my opponent even said he would not play against that unit again... then went on to whine about it for a good 30mins taking half an hour out of the game and my turn about it, the whole FLGS hearing his voice during that time

If you need a more detailed version just quote me

We've got this far without one of the most infamous ones that came directly from GW.

Pete Haines, when asked about why Thousand Sons were so expensive in the CSM 3.5 codex "An army with 2 wounds each has a lot going for it".

25pts a pop, no inv. save. You do the maths...

 Grimtuff wrote:
We've got this far without one of the most infamous ones that came directly from GW.

Pete Haines, when asked about why Thousand Sons were so expensive in the CSM 3.5 codex "An army with 2 wounds each has a lot going for it".

25pts a pop, no inv. save. You do the maths...

You forgot plenty:

Unable to take anything but bolters unless terminators

No veteran skills, not even characters.

Also it was 24, CSM were 14 points back then (lack of nades)

Though 37 points for an aspiring champion sorcerer is a steal compared to nowadays.

Them: "Marines suck, a 3+ save is useless with all this anti infantry shooting."
Me: "Gee, if only you had cheap access to some sort of big metal box to put them in and make them completely immune to most anti-Infantry shots."
Them: "Nah, Rhinos suck. The last time I took a rhino it blew up turn 1."
Me: "How about Scouts?"
Them: "Scouts suck, they don't have a good enough armour save."

Any argument that uses an empirical example in a game with stats and dice to determine how effective something is against something else in a general sense is a stupid argument. It's a kin to saying I bet on Black twice at a roulette wheel and won both times, black always wins.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Them: "Marines suck, a 3+ save is useless with all this anti infantry shooting."
Me: "Gee, if only you had cheap access to some sort of big metal box to put them in and make them completely immune to most anti-Infantry shots."
Them: "Nah, Rhinos suck. The last time I took a rhino it blew up turn 1."
Me: "How about Scouts."
Them: "Scouts suck, they don't have a good enough armour save."

So you imply it is mutually exclusive?

Pony_law wrote:
Any argument that uses an empirical example in a game with stats and dice to determine how effective something is against something else in a general sense is a stupid argument. It's a kin to saying I bet on Black twice at a roulette wheel and won both times, black always wins.

Yes, but I would add in a tiny nuance. It is possible to use anecdotes as an example to more colorfully illustrate things based on the statistics.

Sort of like parables. The stories themselves aren't necessarily true, but they point towards something that is.

For example, I can deconstruct the 40k rules and see that you can win games while just ignoring fliers as your way of dealing with AA. You can then go through the reasoning based on the rules. You can then, after that, show an example of winning while ignoring airplanes to those people who aren't willing to listen to reason. That way you can at least split apart those mistrustful of your reasoning from those people who just want to win an argument on the internet and get put on an ignore list.

Useful for future discussion.

 Ailaros wrote:

Pony_law wrote:
Any argument that uses an empirical example in a game with stats and dice to determine how effective something is against something else in a general sense is a stupid argument. It's a kin to saying I bet on Black twice at a roulette wheel and won both times, black always wins.

Yes, but I would add in a tiny nuance. It is possible to use anecdotes as an example to more colorfully illustrate things based on the statistics.

Sort of like parables. The stories themselves aren't necessarily true, but they point towards something that is.

For example, I can deconstruct the 40k rules and see that you can win games while just ignoring fliers as your way of dealing with AA. You can then go through the reasoning based on the rules. You can then, after that, show an example of winning while ignoring airplanes to those people who aren't willing to listen to reason. That way you can at least split apart those mistrustful of your reasoning from those people who just want to win an argument on the internet and get put on an ignore list.

Useful for future discussion.

Wanna hear an anectdote someone used to seriously argue that Pyrovores were overpowered?

Ashiraya wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Them: "Marines suck, a 3+ save is useless with all this anti infantry shooting."
Me: "Gee, if only you had cheap access to some sort of big metal box to put them in and make them completely immune to most anti-Infantry shots."
Them: "Nah, Rhinos suck. The last time I took a rhino it blew up turn 1."
Me: "How about Scouts."
Them: "Scouts suck, they don't have a good enough armour save."

So you imply it is mutually exclusive?

I imply what is mutually exclusive?

Kain wrote:Wanna hear an anectdote someone used to seriously argue that Pyrovores were overpowered?

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Ashiraya wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Them: "Marines suck, a 3+ save is useless with all this anti infantry shooting."
Me: "Gee, if only you had cheap access to some sort of big metal box to put them in and make them completely immune to most anti-Infantry shots."
Them: "Nah, Rhinos suck. The last time I took a rhino it blew up turn 1."
Me: "How about Scouts."
Them: "Scouts suck, they don't have a good enough armour save."

So you imply it is mutually exclusive?

I imply what is mutually exclusive?

Kain wrote:Wanna hear an anectdote someone used to seriously argue that Pyrovores were overpowered?

Me: *Trying pyrovores to try them out once when the GK codex was shiny and new in 5e*
GK player: *Shows up with draigo's dirty dozen, all given a paint job I could tell came from someone else as he was new to miniature wargaming, I fully expect to get creamed*
GK player: *Starts talking about how he's gonna purge the alien and all with his paladins*
Me: *Nods and is banking on feeding him Tervigon spawned termagants all game*
Me: *Had a swarmlord ready and so gets lucky with his landing rolls*
GK player: *Was so unworried that he bunched up his paladins*
Me: *Has 9 pyrovores in range*
GK player: *Draigo's dirty dozen is now largely toasty, the Pyrovores predictably die in the retaliatory strike, but the explosions from the force weapons kill more of Draigo's unit and end up wiping them all out as I pile them all in to bring him down*
GK player: *Fuming*
Me: *Kind of not believing what I'm seeing*
GK player: *Basically has squat on the table now besides Crowe and some purifiers and a pair of dreadknights*
GK player: *Gets swept off the board by turn four*
GK player: *Claims Pyrovores are now the most overpowered units ever*
Me: *Scratching my head*

That's hilarious. Proof that even the worst units in the game can be effective if you're opponent goes full derp.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
That's hilarious. Proof that even the worst units in the game can be effective if you're opponent goes full derp.

Before the new book I could have doubled up on Pyrovores if I ever wanted eighteen of the things in play for some reason.

Now with no delivery method I doubt I'll ever pull that stunt again unless I find an even dumber opponent.

Outside of Homebrew/Houserule games that is.

The Pyrovore story reminded me of a battle report I remember from 5th edition. Player was fielding a Thousand Sons army first against a son with a PA Grey Knights army then against a father with another PA Grey Knights army.

He won both games by a landslide leading to the father and son to be fuming and declaring Thousand Sons to be "OP".

Did I win the thread or something?

And yeah I remember that one too Zion, I was pretty new to the forum back then.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Pyrovore story reminded me of a battle report I remember from 5th edition. Player was fielding a Thousand Sons army first against a son with a PA Grey Knights army then against a father with another PA Grey Knights army.

He won both games by a landslide leading to the father and son to be fuming and declaring Thousand Sons to be "OP".

I remember that story. That was the best story ever.

Kain wrote:Did I win the thread or something?

And yeah I remember that one too Zion, I was pretty new to the forum back then.

squidhills wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Pyrovore story reminded me of a battle report I remember from 5th edition. Player was fielding a Thousand Sons army first against a son with a PA Grey Knights army then against a father with another PA Grey Knights army.

He won both games by a landslide leading to the father and son to be fuming and declaring Thousand Sons to be "OP".

I remember that story. That was the best story ever.

Honestly I'm surprised someone didn't bring it up before me considering how popular that story was at the time!

I'm not sure if this is entirely applicable but I've had people tell me I shouldn't try and write house rules since everyone who tries to write house rules is a munchkin who's trying to cheat at the game since they can't win normally.

Lol.

Yeah, I don't play tyranid scarcely ever, but that one time I fought against the doom, the person also had pyrovores that they could deepstrike, thanks to a special rule.

The same meltaguns that popped the Doom also pop the pyrovores. The resulting trio of thundering explosions killed more guardsmen than the Doom did, I'm pretty sure.

Take it down, take it down! Wait, take it down less! Emperor protects!

Probably the best one I've heard is

"Destroyers are terrible. I had a squad wiped out turn 1 by 3 LRBT!", at least from 40k.

Others include "Chaos marines are really OP, they crush my whole army in CC" -Eldar player, fielding only Avengers and Wraithguard as troops

"Tau aren't that op. I had Chaos Marines beat me once" guy fielding no marker lights and just had an awful list.

I think some of these are turning into weak attempts to discredit the Marines are weak crowd though. Which is well...weak.