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So generally I play between a mix of mech guard and foot guard. Usually with foot guard its gunline and with a bunch of autocannons and lascannons attached.

So I dont want to go into allies to much but having inquisitors is about as much as I would go into allies.

But I wanted to start this thread as A friend and I had a game the other day. Played the special mission in the stronghold book bunker assault where basically I have to defend my buildings and win by kill points.

I figured I would try the new priests and yarrick out and try to build a good defensive army up that could hold up in close combat. So I ran 2 blobs each with 3 infantry squads, 3 autocannons and a priest. One of those blobs had yarrick. I then ran a 30 man conscript squad with a standard commissar and a priest. The rest of the army was the WoM fortification network, 3 russes(1 vanq with TC/LC/MM sponsons and 2 battle tanks for the squadron) and then 2 PCS with autocannons and x2 flamers. Im pretty sure it was 1500 points we played.

I will say the priests powers to reroll wounds and failed armor/invuln saves really helped out. If I hadnt forgotten them a couple of times the game may have been in my favor. I did have trouble dealing with the monstrous creatures though and I feel like if I had prescience to twinlink my blobs I would have done so much better. So I was thinking for each blob a primaris psyker and a priest would be a solid start, or instead of the primaris go with an inquisitor so they have stubborn instead of fearless so they can gtg. Aside from that where should I go with special and heavy weapons? what is everyones preference? I typically like using Vanquishers so I do have a bit of anti tank in my lists.

Also another discussion, is it worth it putting Yarrik in the list, I used him as my warlord and the priest reroll failed saves did save him in 2 assaults. But I feel like a beefed up commissar lord would be better and cheaper, if not Yarrick what would be another alternative(Like the Lord Commissar) or what would be a better HQ in general?

let the discussion begin!!

Anyone?

All I can suggest, borrowing good advice I've seen elsewhere; try not to field too many good-looking combos/toys/upgrades.

Stick with a few and run with it.

I wouldnt worry about having more than one priest with yarrik there. He is preventing you from running from shooting so you just need a priest in the blob that might get charged. Also for guard losing the ability to go to ground is rough. a

Yea I wasnt sure if more people are using priests as rerolling failed armor and wounds really helped me in most of my combats, then again I was playing against nids so I did expect to get in combat often.

So a Primaris/inquisitor and probably a commissar/priest would be a solid core for a blob as the inquisitor or primaris will grant prescience allowing the blob to hit more and then the commissar would be there just to keep the blob from running and the priest could boost the squads to wounds and failed saves.

Now how does anyone usually equip their blobs? with the new order "Forwards for the Emperor" I feel like heavy weapons would be more common in blobs, or do people still just go naked squads with power axes and melta bombs?

For a fairly defensive setup like you mentioned, the Lascannon/melta is still king, I think. Firepower at range, doubled close up (or tripled if you swap melta for plasma). 30-40 man blobs.

Priests if you expect to see CC or don't want them to even have a chance of running/being pinned. Commissar if you want to keep the GtG ability and don't mind running the risk of capping a HWT or sarge.
Primaris/Inquisitor are always good, keep at ML1 and bring 2-3. Don't forget that sometimes the blob won't be the best target for Prescience, so it may well be betting casting on a Russ or Manticore. Bear that in mind with deployment.

FFTE could well be useful for keeping mobility with Heavy-Weapon-using squads, as you can be consistently pulling back and away from assault, buying you a turn or two more shooting while allowing you to be more aggressive in your deployment.

Also, conscripts with priests are good. 85 points for 21 Fearless bodies makes a good objective sitters, and bump it up to 145 for 41 Fearless, Hit/Wound-or-Save re-rolling dudes. Cheap and lethal.

EDIT: Regarding Yarrick, I really like him in theory, as he offers the combined leadership abilities of a LC and a CCS (Essentially 2-for-1 HQ slot, allowing you to take a Tank Commander in the other), some CC punch that might be pretty unexpected, and with a bunch of ablative wounds and his special rule, is harder to put down than most Warlords.

Always got the good words of wisdom paradigm! Lol

So I got the special characters down and who should go where.

What about weapons and kitting out the blobs. Like sitting back and using the lascannon melta combo should I still include power weapons and melta bombs or is that starting to make a blob too "multipurpose"? Like should I maybe run 2 blobs with the lascannon/melta combo and then maybe have 2 units of conscripts to act as that initial shield to soak up charges? In theory this would still be a more Gunline type of list with majority of the army sitting behind some defense line.

Now if I were to build a foot guard list to advance I would probably want blobs with power axes/melta bombs and probably some sort of special weapons correct, skip out on the heavy weapons. How should I build around an advancing blob army? 2-3 blobs kitted as above and then probably have some russes to follow up and take out the enemies big threats and maybe se scions to deepstrike behind the enemy and maybe get them on their flank.

Thanks for the help so far!

Personally I am a fan of two level 2s instead of one level 1.

Divination has so many good powers and I find that a lot of the time I would rather have the opportunity to get a ignore cover or 4+ invul while still getting two prescience.

Basically with two level twos you will get two prescience and two more powers versus three prescience or two prescience and 1 power for the same amount of points.

Also I am a fan of the autocannon grenade launcher combo. But then again I am taking the blobs for the purpose of anti air and three twin-linked str 6/7 shots per squad with tank hunter has a good chance to so something. Also its pretty cheap as the costs of the higher weapons really adds up over the course of a blob.

I really think it depends on what role you need the blob to fill will really determine what you give them. I need Anti-Air. If you need Anti-tank you will probably go lascannons. Anti heavy infantry lascannons and plasma. So on and so forth.

 tankboy145 wrote:

What about weapons and kitting out the blobs. Like sitting back and using the lascannon melta combo should I still include power weapons and melta bombs or is that starting to make a blob too "multipurpose"? Like should I maybe run 2 blobs with the lascannon/melta combo and then maybe have 2 units of conscripts to act as that initial shield to soak up charges? In theory this would still be a more Gunline type of list with majority of the army sitting behind some defense line.

There's a few ways of looking at this.

As Leth suggests, you can use GL/AC to get relatively cheap squads and keep the cost down over several squads. With AC/GL clocking in at 15 points and Melta/Lascannon at 30, you are almost getting 4 AC/GL squads for the price of 3 LC/MG blobs. This does, of course, come with a drop in effectiveness, as you do get what you pay for, but 3 mid-strength shots per squad can do some nice damage to transports, light vehicles, and even (With Prescience and enough of them) most fliers.

The 'top of the range' option for defence is Lascannon/melta, as you can do serious damage at range to anything, and double it at short range. This does get very expensive when using squads above around 30 men, but the trade-off is you don't need as many as each can do more damage. Where points aren't an issue, then this is the way to go defensively.

With Conscripts being as cheap as they are, they're a great option for speedbumps, as for only 10 points more than a naked PIS you double the body count. If they're just there to die, the worse stats don't matter. The only risk is the low L making them vulnerable to fleeing from shooting, but even then, the enemy are wasting valuable shots on 3-point conscripts.

Now if I were to build a foot guard list to advance I would probably want blobs with power axes/melta bombs and probably some sort of special weapons correct, skip out on the heavy weapons. How should I build around an advancing blob army? 2-3 blobs kitted as above and then probably have some russes to follow up and take out the enemies big threats and maybe se scions to deepstrike behind the enemy and maybe get them on their flank.

For advancing, I'd not bother with heavy weapons, you want to get them into rapid-fire FRF/special weapon range as soon as possible, aggression is the key. So Priest, power axe and melta/flamer are all good options. 2-3 blobs like that are key as you need to overload on threats, which is also where cheap conscript hordes come in.

DSing options would help distract some firepower and also to take out the biggest threats, Whether it's Scions or allied Space Marines (Personally, I'd go with Wolves for this, thanks to double special weapons and Rune Priests- they can either join the assault or keep shooting depending on the targets), it should help.

I can see your point leth, and I will certainly have to look at trying out using lvl 1 and 2 psykers to see what I like more of.

And I do see your point with the autocannon/nade launcher combo. I think next time I play I'm gunna try out using a blob with the las/melta and another with auto/nade combo. I think I will then try to get a 30-40 man conscript squad to be in front of both blobs to soak up fire and charges and hopefully if tey live long enough will head out for objectives lol.

Now with blobs we discussed this long ago with a foot guard list but do you still think it's a good idea to place the defense line 6-12" ahead of the deployment zone so the troops have room to move up and try to keep pressure on the opponent or should I just turtle up and keep back. Because once assault units or the enemy gets close and if I start to fall back my opponent will get my cover save from the defense line. I mean my order to ignore cover will help against that but there's still that chance of the opponent getting a better save.

With the ADL, it's largely the same as before, but with the option of granting Ignores Cover mitigating some of the downsides of more aggressive deployment. Basically, it comes down to whether you want to control the midfield and have a position to more forward from, or hold the backfield and let the enemy come to you. A nice compromise I saw in a batrep the other day was a V-shape pointing towards the enemy This allows you to hang back on either side while pushing forward in the middle.

 tankboy145 wrote:
I did have trouble dealing with the monstrous creatures

Just spend some points on krak grenades for your blobs. 20-30 pts and they'll beat MC to death without much problems. If you're building huge blobs, you can't go without krak nades really. i like to have 20 out of 30 with krak nades or 30 out of 50. They're much more reliable than meltas for tankhunting also.

Ya know I never really thought about krak grenades, now with that said how do you remember what guys have em? lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Paradigm wrote:
With the ADL, it's largely the same as before, but with the option of granting Ignores Cover mitigating some of the downsides of more aggressive deployment. Basically, it comes down to whether you want to control the midfield and have a position to more forward from, or hold the backfield and let the enemy come to you. A nice compromise I saw in a batrep the other day was a V-shape pointing towards the enemy This allows you to hang back on either side while pushing forward in the middle.

Also I think I may have seen the same batrep your talking about which I think I may end up trying that deployment .

I would just paint something easy to see to differentiate them by squads. So like a different color helmet.

Another thing I really like about yarrik in a blob is that if it is a solo character that charges, he basically gets 7-8 re-rolls per combat. Freaking awesome.

Another reason I like Autocannons is that I would not mind moving them as much. Still got a 1/3 chance of hitting with something. 10-15 per squad across 3-6 squads is enough to get another wyvern, or a hydra, etc. In my head I want more specialized squads towards 1-2 roles. Then get other things that are more efficient at taking care of the other things.

Ally in an inquisitor and coteaz too make them stubborn and get your divination powers (giving you a few extra scoring units and a potential counter attack unit in the henchmen)

Yea I figure I will build up a list with some autocannons/nade launcher blobs and other blobs with las/melta combos, try to keep the infantry fighting against infantry and then use my heavy support to try and focus on bigger targets. Probably use some vanquishers as dedicated anti tank and maybe the executioners for more elite based units.

Inquisitors do seem like they are some of the go to methods to get prescience but I do like the idea of the primaris trying to get other powers with his lvl 2 so Im thinking in most of my blobs I will either have an inquisitor leading it alone or go with a primaris with either a commissar or a priest.

Mind, relying on psykers vs nids works until a big bug rears up nice and close - also a time when you really want those buffs up.

True but the priests at least dont take psychic tests, but most of the nids units that have that shadow ability are their synapse creatures so luckily those will already be my prime targets, and if anything I will leave those psykers closer to the back of my armies to keep them from having to take those tests too soon.

Melta and lascannon just feels like a waste of points for melta. You are not going to be in range for 90% of the game.

I would rather run lascannon and flamer. Flamer is there for overwatch.

3-4 d3 flamer hits on overwatch. If they are getting within range for the melta to be useful they are probably charging.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Yea I figure I will build up a list with some autocannons/nade launcher blobs and other blobs with las/melta combos, try to keep the infantry fighting against infantry and then use my heavy support to try and focus on bigger targets. Probably use some vanquishers as dedicated anti tank and maybe the executioners for more elite based units.

Inquisitors do seem like they are some of the go to methods to get prescience but I do like the idea of the primaris trying to get other powers with his lvl 2 so Im thinking in most of my blobs I will either have an inquisitor leading it alone or go with a primaris with either a commissar or a priest.

Honestly I think Autocannon/snipers would synergize better, be cheaper, and just be more effective in general.

Sniper is only 12" range less than the autocannon.

If you shoot at infantry, the sniper can potentially rend or pick off a model.

If you're shooting at MC's, the Sniper Rifle has a better chance to wound against almost anything than the Grenade Launcher does.

AND it's 3pts cheaper per guy.

The only real disadvantage it has is shooting at vehicles, but even then, it still has a slight chance to hurt AV10-12 on a rend. For 2 pts a rifle that isn't too bad since odds are you're relying on the Autocannons to do the bulk of the damage there anyways.

Like I said, the autocannon/grenade build is designed to deal with light vehicles and fliers. You are correct for a different build it would be better to go snipers.

However for most of those monsters that the sniper would be significantly better against you are not going to be shooting an autocannon at them unless you got nothing better to shoot anyway. There are only 2 t7 units that I know of and t8+ is a waste of autocannon shots so sniper isnt good there either.

Its really good at wounding daemons FMC as well as Tyranid FMCs as well as other fliers. That is where the combo excels.

I honestly never thought about snipers, but I did read up somewhere in a thread of people using blobs with PCS with flamers and sws with snipers so basically your making the opponent decide between shooting the larger blob or the smaller squads which also are scoring but can also dish out some damage. I think I wold probably keep the auto/nade combo but I will experiment with the auto/sniper combo if I dont like using the sniper sws.

Now I mentioned using Yarrick as my warlord but does anybody else have any other preferences as to what they would rather take for their warlord? I figured I would take Yarrick as he can hide in a blob and he isnt horrible in combat.

Yarrick is great because he gives you a good guaranteed warlord trait and you can take pask in your other slot. He is also super durable and it is unlikely he is going to give up warlord anytime soon.

As I think I said above, Yarrick makes a great warlord as he combines a CCS and a Lord Commissar for only 1 slot, while being tougher to put down than either. There's certainly no real downside to taking him.

The CCS still has some use thanks to the Regimental Standard still being great and the Advisers being cheaper (25 point Psychic Shriek? Yes please).The ability to super-concentrate Special Weapons is always good, aalthough probably moreso for a mech Cavalry-charge list than Footguard.

The Lord Commissar is nice, but Yarrick does everything he does and more, and with the availability to Priests, Primaris and Commissars, Leadership should rarely be an issue.

For me, the only one that comes close to Yarrick is the Tank Commander/Pask, but as you're playing a blob-guard list, you're going to want those orders.

 Paradigm wrote:
As I think I said above, Yarrick makes a great warlord as he combines a CCS and a Lord Commissar for only 1 slot, while being tougher to put down than either. There's certainly no real downside to taking him.

The CCS still has some use thanks to the Regimental Standard still being great and the Advisers being cheaper (25 point Psychic Shriek? Yes please).The ability to super-concentrate Special Weapons is always good, aalthough probably moreso for a mech Cavalry-charge list than Footguard.

The Lord Commissar is nice, but Yarrick does everything he does and more, and with the availability to Priests, Primaris and Commissars, Leadership should rarely be an issue.

For me, the only one that comes close to Yarrick is the Tank Commander/Pask, but as you're playing a blob-guard list, you're going to want those orders.

Yarrick will also ensure your enemy never gets his killpoint ever. Even Necrons quit the battlefield more readily than he does, and even by objective standards he's pretty punchy in close combat. Certainly not someone to tango with Ironfather Smashfether but enough to paste many an unsuspecting Chaos Lord.

So I've tried a silly just for fun Guard "death"star with Bullgryns and as many ICs as I can possibly jam into it in Apoc where people generally have better things to shoot at. What would you think be best to jam in there?

Yea so far pask has been my go to HQ just cuz I love russes and whats cooler than having an awesome TC!

But I did one game try out Yarrick against a nids list and the priest having the reroll failed invuln/armor saves honestly saved Yarrick in 2-3 assault phases.

Now in any circumstances would it be better to take creed? after you pay for creed and the CCS you're already looking at the same priced unit as Yarrick I believe. But in most cases you have reroll for orders, and 2 warlord traits with creed.

Thoughts on the blob.

Pre jink 3 ac with prescience + bring it down will inflict 2.5 hp on a wave serpent compared to 3 lc which would cause 2hp. Add a quad gun to the blob and that jumps up to 4.7 HP.

LC is vastly superior against MC with a 2+ or 3+, but I see MC as less of a threat than vehicles.

I'm not sold on grenade launchers. Without prescience sniper rifles seem like a good way to save points, but with prescience grenade launchers seem like a bad way to save points off plasma. Plasma guns are deadly against AV12. The buffed squad with 3ac will go up from 2.5hp to 3.75 hp with 3 plasma in single tap range.

Yea so far Ive been testing the lists out and I really like the autocannons, the weight of fire being prescienced and then being given tank hunters has really helped me deal with some vehicles but I just got finished with a game against crons and I really wish I had more anti tank than what I had. Damn av13 was hard to punch.

I tried running 2 vet squads with camo/lascannon/x3 plasma and I really wish I could have gotten tank hunters ordered on them because aside from those 2 lascannons and the icarus I had a vanquisher. My anti tank was very light for what I needed.

For 1750 I tried
HQ
Yarrick

Vanquisher-TC/LC
x2 LRBT's

x2 primaris psykers
x2 priests

Troops
PCS (these guys sat on the bastion and fired the quad)
autocannon
x2 flamers

x3 inafntry squads (Yarrick, priest and primaris here behind defense line)
x3 autocannons
x3 grenade launchers

30 man conscript unit (priest and primaris went here)

x2 vet squads each with:
forward sentries
lascannon
x3 plasma
One squad sat in a ruin and did alright but was sucked up by a monolith, and the other squad I put in the bastion just so I had a squad occupying it, kinda wasted their camo cloaks and ability to receive orders.

Heavy
x2 wyvern

Fortifications: imperial strong point fortification network
Bastion with quad and defense line with icarus lascannon

I kinda messed my deployment up and had my russes more forward and my wyverns kinda sitting out in the open when I should have had the conscripts wrapping the russes and wyverns keeping them further back. Any suggestions on the list?

 tankboy145 wrote:
x3 inafntry squads (Yarrick, priest and primaris here behind defense line)
x3 autocannons
x3 grenade launchers

If you're going to sit a unit behind an Aegis, you might want to consider a Commissar rather than a Priest.
Priests grand Fearless to the unit. This means they can't Go to Ground and gain a 2+ cover save from the Aegis (remember there's an Order that removes the negatives of this).

 tankboy145 wrote:

x3 infantry squads (Yarrick, priest and primaris here behind defense line)
x3 autocannons
x3 grenade launchers

I'd drop the GLs and replace them with flamers. In my opinion, spending 5 points on a GL is a waste, it is a terribad weapon. Take flamers/snipers (you best choice would be the former as you have an assault-y blob here), or don't take special weapons and spend those 5 points elsewhere.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:

x3 infantry squads (Yarrick, priest and primaris here behind defense line)
x3 autocannons
x3 grenade launchers

I'd drop the GLs and replace them with flamers. In my opinion, spending 5 points on a GL is a waste, it is a terribad weapon. Take flamers/snipers (you best choice would be the former as you have an assault-y blob here), or don't take special weapons and spend those 5 points elsewhere.

Grenade launchers are actually a pretty good weapon, at least in my experience. The s3 small blast is mostly useless, except against blobs, where its a godsend. And the krak grenade gives you a somewhat dangerous weapon. Why is it so bad?