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So many options, so many load outs and so many situations.
But alas there is hope for I have magnets.
Anyway to the actual question, getting into guard everyone knows its all about the tanks but with so many options available im not sure what situation is best for whichever loadout and I need some advice to adjusting deployment of my tanks.
The question is as follows:
Part 1: What is the general consensus on the best general tank loadout.
Part 2: What type of russ is best for the different situations I.E horde spam, tank assault, deep striking armies and so on.
Part 3: What type of russ is best for taking down nids, that seem intent on getting right in your face.
2014/05/03 17:48:11
Subject: Re:Leman russ tanks where to even begin...
The Eradicator with Heavy Bolter sponsons is IMO by far the best choice for killing horde enemies. The standard Leman Russ is a great deal and offers a lot of MEQ killing power for only 150 points. Maybe a Demolisher or 2 for those pesky Terminators.
"Most mortals will die from this procedure...and so will you!"
AtomicEngineer wrote: So many options, so many load outs and so many situations.
But alas there is hope for I have magnets.
Anyway to the actual question, getting into guard everyone knows its all about the tanks but with so many options available im not sure what situation is best for whichever loadout and I need some advice to adjusting deployment of my tanks.
The question is as follows:
Part 1: What is the general consensus on the best general tank loadout.
Part 2: What type of russ is best for the different situations I.E horde spam, tank assault, deep striking armies and so on.
Part 3: What type of russ is best for taking down nids, that seem intent on getting right in your face.
The standard Leman Russ is probably the best against 'Nids. Tyranids have extremes of huge swarms and tough monsters, the LRBT will 2+ almost everything in the army, insta-kill warriors, and break everyone's armor, while also still useful against hordes. I personally still like the LRBT, and take that in most games, because of its versatility and range. I pair that with a demolisher and use it either to hunt and kill enemy elites, or as a central anchor for the army.
"Bringer of death, speak your name, For you are my life, and the foe's death." - Litany of the Lasgun
2500 points
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2014/05/03 18:14:44
Subject: Re:Leman russ tanks where to even begin...
The Leman Russ is the bread and butter of the Heavy Support section, providing fire support for foot-guard, performing the heavy lifting in a mech list, and giving tough, reliable on-the-ground presence for aircav. The real strength of the Russ, though, is that it has a variant for every occasion. Following changes to the official FAQ, all Russ variants gained the Heavy rule, allowing them to always count as stationary when firing weapons. This replacement of Lumbering Behemoth hurt the effectiveness of a couple of variants, but increased the usefulness of most. If running them in squadrons, I advise you to keep the same loadout for every tank in the squadron.
· Leman Russ Battle Tank: The most notable victim of the FAQ, with the Ordnance rule on its battle cannon meaning it must fire snap-shots from all other weapons. This relegates the use of sponsons on this tank, narrowing target range it can hurt. The primary target for the LRBT is Marines out of cover, as against other targets it is generally outperformed. The one advantage of this tank is the lack of sponsons allowing it to be kept cheap, and 150 points for a S8 AP3 Large Blast weapon on an AV14 chassis is not to be sniffed at if you're tight for points.
· Leman Russ Exterminator: This variant is possibly the best for a cheap, all-round performer. With the simple addition of Heavy Bolter sponsons, this tank can put out a large volume of shots to threaten medium and light infantry, knock hull points of light vehicles, and potentially even hit fliers. For even more versatility, add a lascannon for help against AV12+.
· Leman Russ Vanquisher: This tank at first glance seems single-minded. With a S8 gun that rolls 2d6 for armour penetration, it is a tank killer beyond compare in a Guard army, and with the addition of a lascannon, it is even more threatening. However, the Vanquisher can also be incredibly versatile with the right sponsons. Plasma Cannons give it even more AP2 fire-power, and increase its threat to Monstrous Creatures and enemies with 2+ saves, and can therefore be incredibly valuable. Although it is rather expensive, there are few tanks better for a take-all-comers list than a Vanquisher with lascannon and Plasma Cannons.
· Leman Russ Eradicator: The Eradicator offers what is essentially a lighter version of the LRBT, able to target medium infantry, but also to ignore cover. It can also take sponsons that can fire effectively, unlike the LRBT, and I would suggest either Heavy Bolters, for the matching AP (which is lethal to xenos armies), or Plasma Cannons if you are worried about Marines. However, if the latter is true, you are probably better off with a Vanquisher, LRBT, or Executioner.
· Leman Russ Demolisher: This tank is, simply put, scary. Admittedly, it suffered in the same way as the LRBT from the FAQ, but the Demolisher was never about the sponsons. Very few things in the game can drop a S10 AP2 Large Blast, which makes the Demolisher a threat to almost anything bar fliers. The price you pay for this fearsome armament, aside from the increased points cost, is range. The Demolisher lacks the ability of its cousins to sit back and shoot, instead needing to advance to get maximum use from its weapon. Therefore, they are best reserved for an aggressive list, and work well in pair. They are great as a threat to force on your opponent, who will have no choice but to deal with it, and can do a lot of damage.
· Leman Russ Punisher: Significantly more specialised that most other Russes, the Punisher seems, on paper, to be absolute death to any infantry. While it is undoubtedly effective, especially with Heavy Bolter sponsons, the range is again a limiting factor, and BS3 also means half the shots will miss. That said, it can still be a solid investment against infantry-heavy armies, and is good for forcing saves on Monstrous Creatures. They also suffer from being an anti-infantry tank in an anti-infantry army, so their usefulness is limited.
· Leman Russ Executioner: The Executioner is one of the best 'specialisation' tanks before upgrades are added, able to fire 3 plasma blasts although with a risk of Gets Hot. Like the Demolisher, though, the raw power is offset by cost, and your targets are limited to 2+/3+ save infantry and Monstrous Creatures, as against any other target, other tanks do the job better and cheaper. Like the LRBT, take one if you see a lot of marines, if not, then take something else. I'd also advise against sponsons, as 3 plasma blasts should kill most things effectively enough.
To summarise:
Best all-round: LC/PC Vanquisher
Best Anti-horde: 3xHB Punisher
Best anti-marine/Terminator/MC: Executioner.
Pask punisher is the best all round tank I'd say, since it can damage anything from AV14 to hordes. I like to take mm and lc for guaranteed wave serpent destruction. But its the cost of a landraider!
eradicators are the cheapest in the new codex and with hb sponsons they can cause lots of saves . Thier cheap cost makes them a good bodyguard for pask.
but if you aren't wanting to invest 500+ points in a pask squad with psyker support then id go with the above advice
I wouldn't consider the Vanquisher to be the best all-rounder, honestly. It's anti-horde capabilities are almost non-existent (two small blasts, even at S7AP2 isn't something to write home about), and it has no way to effectively deal with FMC's, which are the most threatening kind you'll face on the field.
As a Daemons player, I probably wouldn't even address a vanquisher unless it was near the end of the game and I had nothing better to do. Otherwise I'd ignore it.
Without throwing Pask into the mix, I'd say the Executioner is the best all-rounder. At minimum you're getting three plasma-cannon blasts. WIth sponsons you can either turn that into 5 blasts for the ultimate anti-horde, or take LC sponsons for anti-tank.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/03 18:32:34
BlaxicanX wrote: I wouldn't consider the Vanquisher to be the best all-rounder, honestly. It's anti-horde capabilities are almost non-existent (two small blasts, even at S7AP2 isn't something to write home about), and it has no way to effectively deal with FMC's, which are the most threatening kind you'll face on the field.
You're considering it in a vacuum. Any IG army will be able to shred hordes purely through volume of lasguns fire, and HB/Multi-lasers from any Chimeras. Similarly, any FMC won't stay flying for long with that many grounding tests being thrown around. Once it's down, the Vanquisher will make short work of it. Failing that, Vendettas provide firepower to take them on in the air.
It's good against MEQ/TEQ, MCs, Tanks and Transports.
Good point I have always had at least 1 fmc get blinded out of the sky each shooting turn from ig. I might have to relook at this. I really like the eradicator, for most versatile, as in tau and eldar str 7 tl has proven to be the best, i.e. broadsides and wave serpents.
I post with autochange, from my not so smartphone.
Yeah, the executioner and vanquisher rise to the top as being the best due to being the best against hard targets like fliers, heavy vehicles, terminators, and MCs. The punisher also shares the podium because it's actually good for a lot, and at worst only passably decent.
Then the exterminator, and eradicator which are both good for the niches that you'd want to take them for, but both suffer from not being particularly good against any of the scariest targets.
Then the ordnance russes because they're single-shot, stuck with a large blast weapon, and, by far the worst, cause snap firing with hull weapons. To add insult to injury, they're also the most expensive.
Anyways, the right russ is the one that helps you achieve what you want from your HS choices the most. If you want something to handle riptides, take an executioner. If you want something to dig out 2+ cover saves while also having an anti-tank arsenal, take an eradicator. It's not actually all that complicated - just pick the main gun you want, festoon with hull weapons, and you're on your way.
How do the Leman Russ Conqueror and Annihilator factor in?
Although I know they're usually regarded as sucking.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Kain wrote: How do the Leman Russ Conqueror and Annihilator factor in?
The Conqueror is still garbage. In fact it got even worse now that some of the other LRBT variants took its "cheapest possible AV 14" role. The main gun is a joke, and without the "heavy" type it can't really benefit from the lack of the ordnance rule.
The Annihilator is probably redundant now. The main advantage it had was the cheap point cost, but now you can get an Exterminator or Vanquisher for that price. It's not as utterly useless as the Conqueror though, if you're willing to accept a little inefficiency.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Kain wrote: How do the Leman Russ Conqueror and Annihilator factor in?
The Conqueror is still garbage. In fact it got even worse now that some of the other LRBT variants took its "cheapest possible AV 14" role. The main gun is a joke, and without the "heavy" type it can't really benefit from the lack of the ordnance rule.
The Annihilator is probably redundant now. The main advantage it had was the cheap point cost, but now you can get an Exterminator or Vanquisher for that price. It's not as utterly useless as the Conqueror though, if you're willing to accept a little inefficiency.
I'm personally hoping the annihilator gets to fire it's TL'd lascannons twice like the exterminator can with it's autocannons in an update, or at least get a substantial points cut since it's priced to an entirely different standard.
As for the Conqueror; the poor thing's been terrible since the 5e book and I'm not sure if anyone cares enough to help it out.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Kain wrote: How do the Leman Russ Conqueror and Annihilator factor in?
Although I know they're usually regarded as sucking.
Both of them are basically unusable.
There's no real use at all for the Conqueror's extra mobility other than to throw it towards the enemy to get killed quicker (I mean honestly the senior version has 72'' range on that Battle Cannon) and iirc the main gun is heavy, but then the FW Vanquisher with beast hunter shells is a straight up no brainer upgrade from there, as for not a lot at all you're getting heavy AT, extremely effective Anti-MC and AP2 to boot.
The Annihilator, unless FW bring it down to 90 points or less with an FAQ update, is just garbage. The Vanquisher is so much better and at present, I believe for only 5 points more. I can maybe, just maybe see a use for the Annihilator if it goes down to that price as then you can cheaply have a fully equipped tank with sponsons and the front LC - say MM's+LC+TLLC. For 130 points with that configuration that would put it up there with the other Russes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/03 20:00:46
Kain wrote: How do the Leman Russ Conqueror and Annihilator factor in?
Although I know they're usually regarded as sucking.
Both of them are basically unusable.
There's no real use at all for the Conqueror's extra mobility other than to throw it towards the enemy to get killed quicker (I mean honestly the senior version has 72'' range on that Battle Cannon) and iirc the main gun is heavy, but then the FW Vanquisher with beast hunter shells is a straight up no brainer upgrade from there, as for not a lot at all you're getting heavy AT, extremely effective Anti-MC and AP2 to boot.
The Annihilator, unless FW bring it down to 90 points or less with an FAQ update, is just garbage. The Vanquisher is so much better and at present, I believe for only 5 points more. I can maybe, just maybe see a use for the Annihilator if it goes down to that price as then you can cheaply have a fully equipped tank with sponsons and the front LC - say MM's+LC+TLLC. For 130 points with that configuration that would put it up there with the other Russes.
Yeah I'd love to get more use out of my FW leman russ turrets, but I've long since kept them in their containers, waiting for the day to see use once again.
The Vanquisher has pretty much obsoleted the Annihilator with it's current price, the Rapier is also superior, and the Conqueror is as you said, awful.
Still, now that we have HQ russes for the main book, I'm itching to try out a maximum tank spam guard list allied to the ABG for even more tanks.
Or perhaps the other way around.
Either way, it's going to be a sea of AV14 advancing like a wall of metal at six inches per turn; not stopping for anything.
This list's main worries I can see are Area of effect S10 weapons like Doom Scythes and Manticores as at higher points levels I can end up fielding so many tanks I have barely any room to maneuver them on a 6 x 4 board.
Ground based targets I can handle but the lack of interceptor means that I can't really stop a Doom Scythe or Night Shroud bomber from sweeping tanks off.
So my plan is to shoot for an Imperial Strongpoint and invest in Aegis and Bastion fortifications so I can have the dakka to keep any but the spammiest fliers away.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/03 20:16:13
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
The worst thing for a Russ army would be a fast hitting assault list. Csm or daemons with Grimoir or belakor support will absolutely shred through multiple tanks a turn.
Any decently terrained table will cut down casualties until they are crawling all over you by turn two. You NEED bubble wrap Guardsmen squads to slow them down
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/04 01:14:42
Ailaros wrote: And punishers. You know what an army that entirely relies on invul saves really, really hates?
D-weapons.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Nah. D-Weapons don't have high enough RoF for me to truly fear them. The difference between a St10AP1 large blast and a Strength D large blast is pretty remedial to 5+ invulns.
As a Daemon player though, nothing makes my anus pucker like high rates of fire.
BlaxicanX wrote: Nah. D-Weapons don't have high enough RoF for me to truly fear them. The difference between a St10AP1 large blast and a Strength D large blast is pretty remedial to 5+ invulns.
Who actually plays demons with only a 5++? Are you being nice to your opponents and leaving the re-rollable 2++ at home?
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/05/04 05:13:20
Subject: Re:Leman russ tanks where to even begin...
How, in this edition of the Aegis Defense line has no one given any love to the 120 point Eradicator? Eldar, Dark Eldar, line IG, Tau infantry, Ork firebase units and Tyranid swarm are utterly annihilated by the Eradicator.
"Most mortals will die from this procedure...and so will you!"
BlaxicanX wrote: Nah. D-Weapons don't have high enough RoF for me to truly fear them. The difference between a St10AP1 large blast and a Strength D large blast is pretty remedial to 5+ invulns.
Who actually plays demons with only a 5++? Are you being nice to your opponents and leaving the re-rollable 2++ at home?
A question... What do you think of the 5 blast Executioner? Surely the chance roll 5 Get's hot each time it shoots kills the tank for you as it does for me?
You shouldn't be worried about the one bullet with your name on it, Boldric. You should be worried about the ones labelled "to whom it may concern"-from Blackadder goes Forth!
konst80hummel wrote: A question... What do you think of the 5 blast Executioner? Surely the chance roll 5 Get's hot each time it shoots kills the tank for you as it does for me?
There are ways of reducing it.
Stick Prescience on the squadron. Or have Pask as your Warlord and have it in the same squadron.
2014/05/04 12:05:27
Subject: Re:Leman russ tanks where to even begin...
Ailaros wrote: And punishers. You know what an army that entirely relies on invul saves really, really hates?
As you and peregrine said, if faced with Daemons I have D-strength weapons or dakka punishers to put them in their place.
I can also have a ton of Quad-guns to ground and wound pile their FMCs the moment they come out of reserves. Or heck, anything they want to deep-strike.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
2014/05/04 12:17:03
Subject: Re:Leman russ tanks where to even begin...
the eradicator with its large blast and not being ordinance combined with its real low cost means that I will be playing several in my lists as they can advance up the middle supporting my infantry while pounding the xenos that are heavy in my metta. marines will still get there save but there are so few of them that and making saving throws make marines real nervous. add in a couple of punishers and they are just as worried as all the rest. killing a lemun is not hard killing five or six is no easy task.
I use the 120 pt Eradicator with a Vanquisher/Lascannon Tank Commander. One hunts tanks while the other hits light armored infantry in cover. Never had anything but success so far, and opponents sweat over the Demolisher and Executioner rolling in before focusing on my Tank Warlord.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/04 12:42:51
"Most mortals will die from this procedure...and so will you!" 
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