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Hello

Me and a friend of mine have become a little disillusioned with the ever increasing prices of Games Workshop, while searching around we discovered Mantic games. we had wanted to do WFB for a while but the buy in is too great, but Kings of Wars Low prices, excellent model range (I even like the elves!), potential for use in our DnD games and the financial impact of my difficulty with sticking to one army or game even being somewhat softened by the low prices is too good a combination to pass up!

So my friend is starting up Basileans, and I thought that I would start up an Undead Force (I like the models and there are lots of potential for conversions and such . The following is based around the £50 army deal.

So here is the list (made with Battlescribe):

+++ Undead 750 (750pts) +++
+++ 750pt Undead Roster (Standard)) +++

Selections:

Undead (Standard) Selections:

+ Solid Units + (500pts)

* Revenant Regiment (120pts)
(Shambling)
musician (10pts)


* Skeleton Horde (135pts)
(Shambling)


* Werewolves Troop (150pts)
(Crushing Strength (1), Nimble)


* Zombie Horde (95pts)
(Shambling)


+ Units + (120pts)

* Ghoul Troop (60pts)


* Ghoul Troop (60pts)


+ War Engines + (130pts)

* Balefire Catapult (65pts)
(Indirect Fire, Piercing (3), Shambling)
Blast (2D6) (Blast (X))


* Balefire Catapult (65pts)
(Indirect Fire, Piercing (3), Shambling)
Blast (2D6) (Blast (X))

So deployment would be Zombies in front, Revenants + Werewolves behind ready for a counter charge once the zombies go down, and behind them the Skeleton Horde to mob up and protect the rear, on the flanks of the Revenants + Werewolves would be the 2 ghouls to protect from flank charges. Catapults would be positioned on the flanks of the Skeleton Horde to provide fire support.

So what do you think? All criticism welcome.

Makes sense to me, and sounds like you have a good plan of how to intersperse your units for chaff taking the hit, and the nasties cleaning up after. I also HIGHLY recommend two things: the equivalent to Blood Knights and CHEAP necromancers. Your necromancers give you dark surge. Dark surge is good...and you can stack it, flying a slow unit across the board. Actually, a third thing. You want wraiths. They hit hard and have VERY high defense. Other than that, looks like you have a pretty good grip, so I'll shut up, sit back, and watch you munch some holy men.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Makes sense to me, and sounds like you have a good plan of how to intersperse your units for chaff taking the hit, and the nasties cleaning up after. I also HIGHLY recommend two things: the equivalent to Blood Knights and CHEAP necromancers. Your necromancers give you dark surge. Dark surge is good...and you can stack it, flying a slow unit across the board. Actually, a third thing. You want wraiths. They hit hard and have VERY high defense. Other than that, looks like you have a pretty good grip, so I'll shut up, sit back, and watch you munch some holy men.

Agreed on the Necromancers - I sometimes go with nearly a 1:1 ratio of Solid Units to Necromancers.

And, also agreed - some unit of cavalry really helps speed things up (and the necromancer can hit the Revenant Cavalry with Dark Surge as well).

I can recommend getting the Elites box for the undead as well, once you have gotten the hang of the starter army box.
10 Plastic Resin Revenant Knights - I will admit to really liking these figures. I have a big unit that ends up doing much of the damage that the army inflicts - get them some nice magic item for the added umph.
20 Plastic Revenants - I tend to use Revenants more often than regular skeletons - I had a horde of skellies melt away under fire from a much smaller unit of dwarf Ironwatch.
10 Plastic Ghouls - I find them useful as a reaction force on my vulnerable flanks and also to harass enemies that have been engaged by harder units.
5 Plastic Resin Wraiths - Flying unit, which means that you can pop them over terrain that the opposing player might think is protecting his flank. (I did this to my girlfriend. )
1 Plastic Balefire Catapult - I like artillery - not all that lethal against big units in KoW, but very handy against smaller units that might harass your flanks. Just... expect to miss a lot. You want two or three to make up for the lack of accuracy.

The undead rely on their necromancers - and remember, Kings of War allows folks to use miniatures from other companies. So... a quick look at the Reaper Bones line reveals some possibilities - and they run about $2.50 to $3.00 US:

77175: Ghoul Queen ($2.49)


77172: Malek Necromancer ($2.79)


77174: Leisynn, Mercenary Mage ($2.49)


77195: Mr. Bones ($1.99)

The Auld Grump

Wow malek and Mr bones appeal to me alot ! Looking at the stat lines ghouls seem to be litteraly the lowest of the low in the army their only advantage is speed, but they can waver, are fragile and don't seem to have much use for me apart from flank blockers and perhaps a fast unit to soakup unwanted ranged fire from enemy crossbowmen and the like. But I like the models tgough :( its IG rough riders all over again, well except ghouls actually have a use! One more question is it better to have my balefires separated or together in one spot?

Separate. With indirect fire, they can still hit targets well, but artillery folds if it gets charged. Don't put them all together, unless you want to direct your opponents right to that spot. Then again, if you find a way to make that a workable strategy, then kudos.

yep that's what I thought

you could work an army in a shallow V with the War machines at the point, thus funnelling the enemy to the centre, Where you could grapeshot and then flank with the rest of the army. but this only works if the only truly threatening target is the war machines, or the they are the weakest and most vulnerable units.

 The Deathless Host wrote:
Wow malek and Mr bones appeal to me alot ! Looking at the stat lines ghouls seem to be litteraly the lowest of the low in the army their only advantage is speed, but they can waver, are fragile and don't seem to have much use for me apart from flank blockers and perhaps a fast unit to soakup unwanted ranged fire from enemy crossbowmen and the like. But I like the models though :( its IG rough riders all over again, well except ghouls actually have a use! One more question is it better to have my balefires separated or together in one spot?

Ghouls serve best as a reaction unit - they can be brought up on a flank when a unit is already engaged, getting rid of one of their problems.

I have had opponents that knew the stat line for the ghouls, and ignored them. The result was the ghouls finding out just how tasty Ironclads can be when you hit their flank and rear.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Separate. With indirect fire, they can still hit targets well, but artillery folds if it gets charged. Don't put them all together, unless you want to direct your opponents right to that spot. Then again, if you find a way to make that a workable strategy, then kudos.

Or plunk them on a nice hill, so that they can fire over solid units that can block charges. (Another use for ghouls is to add some depth to the defense of the catapults - using the artillery as bait for a trap.)

But generally... yeah, separate, with overlapping fields of fire works quite well.

If you were playing Dwarfs it would be a different story - they have a Hero that boosts artillery.

Position is everything in KoW - getting hit in the flank can make the hardest unit fold like freshly pressed laundry.

Ghouls, wraiths, and cavalry are your best flankers.

The werewolves.... Bless their black little hearts, they are among the best shock troops in the game. Fast and hard hitting.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 The Deathless Host wrote:
Wow malek and Mr bones appeal to me alot ! Looking at the stat lines ghouls seem to be litteraly the lowest of the low in the army their only advantage is speed, but they can waver, are fragile and don't seem to have much use for me apart from flank blockers and perhaps a fast unit to soakup unwanted ranged fire from enemy crossbowmen and the like. But I like the models though :( its IG rough riders all over again, well except ghouls actually have a use! One more question is it better to have my balefires separated or together in one spot?

Ghouls serve best as a reaction unit - they can be brought up on a flank when a unit is already engaged, getting rid of one of their problems.

I have had opponents that knew the stat line for the ghouls, and ignored them. The result was the ghouls finding out just how tasty Ironclads can be when you hit their flank and rear.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Separate. With indirect fire, they can still hit targets well, but artillery folds if it gets charged. Don't put them all together, unless you want to direct your opponents right to that spot. Then again, if you find a way to make that a workable strategy, then kudos.

Or plunk them on a nice hill, so that they can fire over solid units that can block charges. (Another use for ghouls is to add some depth to the defense of the catapults - using the artillery as bait for a trap.)

But generally... yeah, separate, with overlapping fields of fire works quite well.

If you were playing Dwarfs it would be a different story - they have a Hero that boosts artillery.

Position is everything in KoW - getting hit in the flank can make the hardest unit fold like freshly pressed laundry.

Ghouls, wraiths, and cavalry are your best flankers.

The werewolves.... Bless their black little hearts, they are among the best shock troops in the game. Fast and hard hitting.

The Auld Grump

Yes I would agree with you, like in real medival strategy positioning is everything, even the most heavily armoured best trained night can be taken down by a present with a dirk if the peasent stabs him in the backside! Thanks for the tip on werewolves now there's more reason besides their delicious models! I love those things!

There is a fairly successful army list that is nothing but werewolves....

I think that is going a bit far, but I do like having the fuzzy puppies in my army.

The Auld Grump

Yes I think I saw that army on a blog somewhere.

I'd love a more fleshed-out Werewolf army list. Not because of cheese, but because I've got a ton of unused Wolfen that look great and need love, after all.

 Azazelx wrote:
I'd love a more fleshed-out Werewolf army list. Not because of cheese, but because I've got a ton of unused Wolfen that look great and need love, after all.

Reaper also has a line that is similar - with some very nice, if not all that evil looking, models:




Among the Bones line are Gnolls - which are pretty close to the Mantic puppies in scale, but relying on weapons instead of just tooth and claw:



I would love to see the werewolves in Kings of War get fleshed out a bit more.

The Auld Grump

They could even draw inspiration from that concept art they used for the Kickstarter(!)