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Trying to decide between 2 lists. Also C&C welcome.

List 1

HQ
Herald of Nurgle, Lesser Reward, Greater Locus, Psyker Level 2
Herald of Nurgle, Greater Locus
Great Unclean One, Psyker Level 3

Troops
5x Nurglings
4x Nurglings
15x Plaguebearers, Plague Banner, Plagueridden (Lesser Reward)
10x Plaguebearers

Heavy Support
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Flight, Exalted Reward, Psyker Level 3
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Flight, Psyker Level 3

Fortification
Aegis Defense Line, Icarus lascannon

Strategy:
Buffed Herald with Etherblade, Plague powers goes in large bearer unit, marches onto midfield objective
Other Herald goes with small bearer unit on the Aegis for a BS5 Skyfire Lascannon and backfield objective
GUO and Princes abuse Biomancy, possibly Plague for shooty AP2/3
Exalted Daemon Prince drops the Portalglyph to bring in small units of Horrors.



List 2
HQ
Herald of Nurgle, Lesser Reward, Greater Locus, Psyker Level 1
Great Unclean One, Lesser Reward, Psyker Level 3

Troops
18x Plaguebearers, Plague Banner, Plagueridden
10x Plaguebearers (90pts)

Heavy Support
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Flight, Exalted Reward, Psyker Level 3
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Flight, Psyker Level 3
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Flight, Psyker Level 3

Strategy: Again, Portalglyph for small Horror units, GUO and Princes abuse Biomancy and Plague, Herald takes a Plague power, Etherblade and marches up to a midfield objective in cover. Small bearers cover a backfield objective.

i'd rather take a daemon prince with wings, rather than great unclean... he's too slow

also soul grinder and some plague drones....

i'd prob run

Herald of Nurgle, Greater Locus, Psyker Level 1
Herald of Nurgle, Greater Locus, Psyker Level 1
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Flight, Exalted Reward, Psyker Level 3

Troops
5x Nurglings (mebbe)
14x Plaguebearers, Plagueridden (Lesser Reward)
14x Plaguebearers, Plagueridden (Lesser Reward)

Fast Attack
5x Plague Drones

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder of Nurgle, Phlem Bombardment
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Flight, Psyker Level 3

I like deep striking the plague bearers with herald and using ap3 psychic stuff (stay in 8" to get stealth+shrouded or stealth out of 8" in cover for a general 4+ save)

drones are fairly tough and the fastest moving thing generally for nurgle.... they tie up the heavy shooting so the daemon princes can land and screw some gak up...

soul grinder just for some high strength (or anti-flier) shooting, otherwise the shooting phase passes by with very little to do....

again this is just preference obviously...

Thanks for the comments!

Can you take a Daemon Prince in Heavy Support without taking a GUO? Will need to check my codex tonight.

The GUO is slow, but with Biomancy he can be really annoying. At worst he can squat between 2 or 3 well-placed objectives, acting as a fire magnet and as counterassault to anything that comes near them. Also my GUO is probably my best-painted model so I really want to field him. Hoping that the large FNP Plaguebearer unit will be able to survive marching up and icon him in dead center of the board on turn 2.

I feel having only one thing with an AV (ie one Soulgrinder) is asking for a deepstriking/podding/turboboosted meltagun, so I'm not sure about trading a 3rd MC for one. I'd rather 3 princes, or 2 princes + GUO.

The idea with the Nurglings is to spread them out max, in cover, and put early pressure on small shooty units that aren't great in assault (ie LongFang type units, Broadsides - well, anything Tau really). If my opponent is shooting S6+ weapons at my Nurglings to double them out, he's not shooting them at my big guys, which is fine by me. And weaker weapons will take a while to chew through Shrouded/Invulnerable 4-wound models. I don't know if they're worth it but I want to give them a try. Maybe only one unit as you suggest though.

The Plague Drones are definitely something to consider, especially as a way to get an icon upfield fast for bringing in the GUO. Do you think 5 are enough to survive getting upfield? I suppose that's more wounds than the large bearer unit, and at higher toughness. Harder to keep in cover though. I might consider trailing them back to a Herald with FNP I suppose, and slingshot him up.

I could always trail back a large Nurgling unit to an FNP/ Etherblade Herald for amusement (and slingshotting), though it would make him effectively T3. Probably not worth it.

Will try to work the Drones in and post an updated list later today.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Revised list with drones:

Chaos Daemons 1500

HQ
Herald of Nurgle, Lesser Reward, Greater Locus, Psyker Level 1
Great Unclean One, Psyker Level 3

Fast Attack:

5 Plague Drones, Plague Banner, Plagueridden (Lesser Reward)

Troops
5x Nurglings
15x Plaguebearers

Heavy Support
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Flight, Exalted Reward, Psyker Level 3
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Flight, Psyker Level 3

Fortification
Aegis Defense Line, Quadocannon


Plan is to slingshot the Herald with the Drones, to give them FNP and survivability (and eventually an AP2 attack). Plaguebringer of the Drones is there to tank scary challenges. Not sure if it's worth dropping the Death's Heads to give him an Etherblade (at Initiative 2....) Death's Heads are mostly so they can do something should I want to deep strike them instead. Also, have to check the points of the upgrades when I get home, as I'm not sure the Battlescribe file has them all correct.

Switched the Icarus lascannon for a quadocannon due to no more BS5 Herald to man it. Twinlinked BS3 will do.
Still have the portalglyph to drop turn 1 for troop generation (bearers and/or horrors), and a big unit of bearers to squat the quadocannon/aegis (no FNP for them anymore though, having dropped the second Herald).

One decent sized unit of Nurglings to infiltrate and either threaten little shooty units, or as an assault screen for anything that might want to charge the drones early on (eg Lysander would munch the Drones pretty quickly, but Nurglings would slow him down by one or two turns, which is enough).

Overall I feel this version of the list is considerably stronger for attack, though it relies a lot more on the Portalglyph for troops. Losing the FNP Herald on my bearers hurts, but it was a 70 point upgrade on a 90 point unit so not necessarily efficient anyways.


- Edit: Battlescribe had the points wrong for the Drones' icon and plaguebanner upgrade (too cheap by 5 and 15 points respectively), so I had to cut 20 points to make up the difference. Lost the Death's Heads on the Drones, cut the bearer's Plagueridden, took a Lesser Gift on the Drones' Plagueridden.

I'd love to find 30 points to get an Exalted reward for the GUO. The Eternal Blade would really make him shine (gets him up to Initiative 5+) and complement Iron Arm should he get it. Don't think its worth dropping the Nurglings or Plaguebearers to minimum size though (they'd evaporate too fast)...

I'd also love to find another 40 points to get a chair for my Herald, but I don't want to drop 5 bearers or lose the Nurglings entirely in order to get it (I'd have to get another Troops unit anyways to fill the FOC minimum). I suppose I could go with Epidemius for the same points as a FNP cherald, but the lack of FNP in those critical first turns would hurt a lot. I think the Tallyman is only good with a max unit of Drones (like in that winning GT list) to help him survive until the Tally racks up.

 Strangelooper wrote:
Can you take a Daemon Prince in Heavy Support without taking a GUO? Will need to check my codex tonight.

You cannot. The above poster does not understand the Daemon codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In your new list, how is the Nurald gonna keep up with the Drones? They move 12, he moves 6 and can't run.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

In your new list, how is the Nurald gonna keep up with the Drones? They move 12, he moves 6 and can't run.

The idea is to slingshot:
Turn 1, move the Nurald up 6" and into cover. Then move the front Drone up, stringing the other Drones back to keep the Nurald in coherency. The front Drones can move up more (or spread out laterally) with their assault moves. Turn 2, again move the Nurald first, 6" towards the eventual assault target. Move the drones up as far as possible, stringing them back to the Nurald again. With 40mm(?) bases and max coherency, that should allow quite a bit of stringing distance.

Then, at the end of my turn 2, assault with the frontmost Drones. Pile in moves (the snap of the "slingshot") will bring the strung-out Drones and Herald up 3". They get another 3" pile-in during the opponent's turn, which combined with the opponent's 2 pile-in moves (from my turn 2 and from his next turn) should get the Nurald into Etherblading range. Regardless, he's protected from shooting by being locked in combat, and he's still handing out FNP to the Drones.


By starting the Nurald on my 12" deployment line, he'll be 24" in at the beginning of my turn 2 assault phase. The Drones could be up to 17.5" ahead of him, depending on how many die in his turn 1 shooting phase. 24"+17.5" = 32.5", which is only 3.5" away from the opponent's deployment zone. Of course if the opponent deploys second and/or is deep in his zone, I may not get the turn 2 assault.

Ideally the GUO will be dropping in off the Drone icon on turn 2 as well, Biomancying himself up and lobbing some AP2/3 around for good measure.

 Strangelooper wrote:

Ideally the GUO will be dropping in off the Drone icon on turn 2 as well, Biomancying himself up and lobbing some AP2/3 around for good measure.

I'd be excited to see how well this works. No one in my area plays Nurgle. I've always wanted to try a GUO....

I understand the daemon codex well enough, but i appreciate the insult none the less

played with drones fairly often, they are jetpack beasts so move like beasts and get the 2d6 move in assault phase.... a herald just limits them and takes away the advantage they bring to the board.... with mark of nurgle you get stealth and defensive grenades and with 12" movement and 2d6" assault movement they move up the field hoping from cover to cover and then bog down a shooting squad so your daemon prince can land assault and take off again without worrying about las to the face

deep striking unclean one... if you gonna do that put him next to your opponents army and charge everything in sight the next turn.

with (your list) 3 mc and drones in your opponents ranks the likelihood of them targeting nurglings is so minimal that they could just spread out and capture which ever points they wish.. (i'd also bring the 15 man squad of bearers up the board they can pack a punch if the herald has ap3 flame psychic and has lesser reward for flamer or large blast)

 l1ttlej wrote:
I understand the daemon codex well enough, but i appreciate the insult none the less

played with drones fairly often, they are jetpack beasts so move like beasts and get the 2d6 move in assault phase.... a herald just limits them and takes away the advantage they bring to the board.... with mark of nurgle you get stealth and defensive grenades and with 12" movement and 2d6" assault movement they move up the field hoping from cover to cover and then bog down a shooting squad so your daemon prince can land assault and take off again without worrying about las to the face

deep striking unclean one... if you gonna do that put him next to your opponents army and charge everything in sight the next turn.

with (your list) 3 mc and drones in your opponents ranks the likelihood of them targeting nurglings is so minimal that they could just spread out and capture which ever points they wish.. (i'd also bring the 15 man squad of bearers up the board they can pack a punch if the herald has ap3 flame psychic and has lesser reward for flamer or large blast)

Yeah the Herald limits their mobility, but he also greatly increases the drones' survivability AND damage output. The drones in return INCREASE the Heralds mobility via the slingshot method described above, and provide a way for him to reach combat more reliably. It's a cool trick and it could work against a lot of armies. Armies loaded to the nines with dakka will make the slingshot somewhat difficult for you though since you've gotta take wounds from the front and each plague drone down is going to cost you ~3.5" of movement if strung out all the way. But you probably already know this. The considerable amount of dakka needed to down the plague drones will not be directed at your princes however so that is a plus.

Interesting list, good luck with it.

I wish the nurglings could score objectives...sadly, as they are swarms, they can't even deny. They're there to tie up a shooty unit or as a movement/assault screen. Or to control inflitration space.

The GUO is definitely going to charge the turn after he comes in, of course. He should get a shooty power (large blast AP2 or template AP3, and/or possibly Life Leech or Smite) so he can do something on his deepstrike turn. All those are very short range attacks though - he really needs to come in off an icon for proper placement, I feel. Hence the drones

The big problem I forsee with the Drones is getting focused down on turn 1 with shooting. Therefore I feel that the FNP from the Herald is worth slowing down the back of the unit. The front of the unit can still move pretty far. Of course, it would be better with more Drones, but then I'd have to cut down on the other threats. I've already made my GUO and Princes pretty cheap (no gifts other than the Portalglyph) and I'm unwilling to strip the Psyker levels. Much of the strength of the list is from 1-2 MCs with Iron Arm, and anything that reduces my chances of getting that power is not worth it.

I suppose the Herald could always detach turn 2 if necessary for the Drones to reach their target, but then he's a sitting duck and they would lose FNP during their assault.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 l1ttlej wrote:
I understand the daemon codex well enough, but i appreciate the insult none the less

played with drones fairly often, they are jetpack beasts so move like beasts and get the 2d6 move in assault phase.... a herald just limits them and takes away the advantage they bring to the board.... with mark of nurgle you get stealth and defensive grenades and with 12" movement and 2d6" assault movement they move up the field hoping from cover to cover and then bog down a shooting squad so your daemon prince can land assault and take off again without worrying about las to the face

deep striking unclean one... if you gonna do that put him next to your opponents army and charge everything in sight the next turn.

with (your list) 3 mc and drones in your opponents ranks the likelihood of them targeting nurglings is so minimal that they could just spread out and capture which ever points they wish.. (i'd also bring the 15 man squad of bearers up the board they can pack a punch if the herald has ap3 flame psychic and has lesser reward for flamer or large blast)

Yeah the Herald limits their mobility, but he also greatly increases the drones' survivability AND damage output. The drones in return INCREASE the Heralds mobility via the slingshot method described above, and provide a way for him to reach combat more reliably. It's a cool trick and it could work against a lot of armies. Armies loaded to the nines with dakka will make the slingshot somewhat difficult for you though since you've gotta take wounds from the front and each plague drone down is going to cost you ~3.5" of movement if strung out all the way. But you probably already know this. The considerable amount of dakka needed to down the plague drones will not be directed at your princes however so that is a plus.

Interesting list, good luck with it.

Thanks, I'm trying for a sort of multiple threat overload list that has some Flying Circus and some of the RTT-winning Drone-assault-slingshot. I realize that I'm losing out on spamming one thing or another, but I like the versatility of this list - it's not so much a one-trick pony as either of those lists.

If I limit fire lanes to the Princes on Turn 1 (while Swooping), I'm hoping they both survive to land in the opponent's lines and start wrecking face. The drones will definitely take a pounding, but (barring Primaris-boosted Demolishers and Manticores) they can take it better than a unit of bearers (15 T5 wounds > 15 T4 wounds, other than getting instakilled), are more threatening, and can get that Icon up-table faster for a closer GUO drop.

If there are a lot of such ordnance on the board, I can always hold the Drones in reserve to deepstrike them and let the Manticores shoot at max coherency Plaguebearers/Nurglings on Turn 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is also the entertaining option of manning the quad-gun with (BS3) nurglings. They should be able to see flyers, but ground troops will be unable to draw LOS to nurglings behind the Aegis (I have the old nurglings, not the high-stacked ones).

ah yes forgot the crappy swarm rule (never really use nurglings)

hmm yea i still prefer the long moving plague drones (i do play with csm nurgle support tho so i suppose making the best of pure demon options are limited)

it'll be interesting to see how games go with this list keep me informed

 l1ttlej wrote:
ah yes forgot the crappy swarm rule (never really use nurglings)

hmm yea i still prefer the long moving plague drones (i do play with csm nurgle support tho so i suppose making the best of pure demon options are limited)

it'll be interesting to see how games go with this list keep me informed

I hope to post some batreps once I buy and assemble 2 boxes of Plague Drones!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another list, this time going monster mash. The role of the Drones in the previous list was mostly to guide in the GUO, be a fire magnet, and maybe kill another unit. Instead, I could just take a second GUO with Biomancy/Plague powers! I'd have to drop the Herald, but it would free up some points for gifts.

List 5 Monster Mash
1500 Chaos Daemons

HQ:
Great Unclean One, Greater Reward, Psyker level 3
Great Unclean One, Greater Reward, Psyker level 3

Troops:
3 Nurglings
3 Nurglings
3 Nurgings
15 Plaguebearers, Icon

Heavy Support:
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Exalted Reward, Psyker level 3
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Greater Reward, Psyker level 3

Fortifications:
Aegis Defense Line, quadocannon

OR drop a bunch of Nurglings to get a second Plaguebearer squad, and a Bastion for them to hide in.:

List 6: Bastion Monster Mash

HQ:
Great Unclean One, Greater Reward, Psyker level 3
Great Unclean One, Greater Reward, Psyker level 3

Troops:
5 Nurglings
10 Plaguebearers
10 Plaguebearers

Heavy Support:
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Exalted Reward, Psyker level 3
Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Greater Reward, Psyker level 3

Fortifications:
Bastion with Quadocannon

Plaguebearers likely go inside and on top of the bastion to man the Quad gun and Heavy Bolters. Inside squad is backup to man the Quadgun in case the squad up top dies. Bastion gives something for the Princes to hide behind on turn 1, and something impassable for the Portalglyph to bounce back from (hopefully remaining out of LOS).

hmm imperial guard will tear you a new one with their orders..... eldar might pose a problem and tau are probably gonna tear into you...

cc teams will suffer hard (my blood angels especially) against 4 mc, otherwise with this list it's kill everything for a win generally 2 plague bearer squads with no fnp don't usually last long

 l1ttlej wrote:
hmm imperial guard will tear you a new one with their orders

What orders, exactly, are you referring to? Lasguns can't actually hurt a GUO, and they have so many Wounds that Autocannons/Lascannons won't do that much either. Slap some wings on the Princes, and again Orders won't do that much (since they'll be HtH.)

I'm more worried about the rumoured "psychic phase" in 7th that is going to let opponents dispel my Iron Arm :(

Ignore cover is available to IG, and combined with Demolishers and, Manticores that spells doom for Drones, Plaguebearers and grounded Princes, it's true. Partly why I'm considering a second GUO.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 l1ttlej wrote:
hmm imperial guard will tear you a new one with their orders

What orders, exactly, are you referring to? Lasguns can't actually hurt a GUO, and they have so many Wounds that Autocannons/Lascannons won't do that much either. Slap some wings on the Princes, and again Orders won't do that much (since they'll be HtH.)

monster hunter just for one...... ingores cover for as second......

 l1ttlej wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 l1ttlej wrote:
hmm imperial guard will tear you a new one with their orders

What orders, exactly, are you referring to? Lasguns can't actually hurt a GUO, and they have so many Wounds that Autocannons/Lascannons won't do that much either. Slap some wings on the Princes, and again Orders won't do that much (since they'll be HtH.)

monster hunter just for one...... ingores cover for as second......

So by "tear you a new one" you mean, "Kill a few Plaguebearers." Because both those orders are Senior Officer only, you can use a MAXIMUM of four per turn with Creed and another HQ, or only TWO without Creed and with two HQs. And you can't be referring to a tank army, because the Tank Commander doesn't have those orders, and lots of the LRBTs can't hit FMCs anyhow.
So cool, you'll just murder some of his Troops while ignoring the scary stuff, or desperately spend all your shooting trying to kill the real threats before they get to your lines (on T2) while he holds objectives.