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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 18:35:48
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Grisly Ghost Ark Driver
Some Tomb World in some galaxy by that one thing in that one place (or Minnesota for nosy people)
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I'm pretty sure RAW its a no since it says it uses codex: tau empire but was I just wondering if it was possible
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"Put your 1st best against you opponents 2nd best, your 2nd best against their 3rd best, and your 3rd best against their 1st best"-Sun Tzu's Art of War
"If your not winning, try a bigger sword! Usually works..."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 18:47:56
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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I suspect you are answering your own question there. Shem though...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 18:57:48
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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If you take a Farsight Enclave Detachment, the way the rules are written in the supplemental, all the Signature Systems will apply to the Formation.
Here is a read through the old thread.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592478.page
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 19:15:03
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Grisly Ghost Ark Driver
Some Tomb World in some galaxy by that one thing in that one place (or Minnesota for nosy people)
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Alright thanks for the confirmation!
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"Put your 1st best against you opponents 2nd best, your 2nd best against their 3rd best, and your 3rd best against their 1st best"-Sun Tzu's Art of War
"If your not winning, try a bigger sword! Usually works..."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 19:27:05
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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Note: In doing so, you will not be able to use any Codex: Tau Empire Signature Systems.
So no Buffmander with your O'vesa Star, but a recent errata lets you take Shadowsun/Aun'va in the allied detachment instead.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/04 19:28:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 21:10:07
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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I don't know what the point of clarifying that is, though, since none of the formation models have permission to take anything except what is listed in the Dataslate. They can't take any Sig Systems, since they're not listed in the Dataslate. Thus, whether you're using Farsight or Taunilla, models from Firebase can't take Sigs.
And interestingly, the Positional Relay refers explicitly to units from C:TE, and would not work with C: FE. (Not that I've ever seen anyone take one of those....)
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LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500  6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 21:16:58
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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Elric Greywolf wrote:
I don't know what the point of clarifying that is, though, since none of the formation models have permission to take anything except what is listed in the Dataslate. They can't take any Sig Systems, since they're not listed in the Dataslate. Thus, whether you're using Farsight or Taunilla, models from Firebase can't take Sigs.
And interestingly, the Positional Relay refers explicitly to units from C:TE, and would not work with C: FE. (Not that I've ever seen anyone take one of those....)
I think the Positional Replay won't work only for members for The Eight (not including Farsight) not joined to a normal Tau unit since the Farsight Enclaves is a supplement and uses all the same rules for Codex: Tau Empire unless otherwise stated.
I'm not sure why we are having this discussion again since I already gave you the rules support in the thread I linked.
Nilok wrote: Elric Greywolf wrote: Nilok wrote:put the Earth Caste Pilot Array on a Firebase Support Cadre Formation Detachment. I can't tell if its funny or stupid.
I can't see how this would be accomplished, since the ECPA isn't an option in the dataslate. How are you doing this?
From the Farsight Enclaves, emphasis is mine
SIGNATURE SYSTEMS wrote:Any character in your army that may select Signature Systems may not select from those listed in Codex: Tau Empire, but may instead select from the Signature System of the Farsight Enclaves (opposite), at the points cost shown. Note that XV104 Riptides in your army may select items from the Signature Systems of the Farsight Enclaves
If you take a Farsight Enclaves detachment, all of your Riptides in your army from the Tau Codex, Farsight Enclaves, or the Firebase Cadre can take the ECPA.
The Dataslate does not have those permissions, correct. However, the Farsight Enclave modifies all of the Riptides in your army to be able to select them.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/04 21:20:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 23:17:53
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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Nilok wrote: Elric Greywolf wrote: Nilok wrote:put the Earth Caste Pilot Array on a Firebase Support Cadre Formation Detachment. I can't tell if its funny or stupid. I can't see how this would be accomplished, since the ECPA isn't an option in the dataslate. How are you doing this? From the Farsight Enclaves, emphasis is mine SIGNATURE SYSTEMS wrote:Any character in your army that may select Signature Systems may not select from those listed in Codex: Tau Empire, but may instead select from the Signature System of the Farsight Enclaves (opposite), at the points cost shown. Note that XV104 Riptides in your army may select items from the Signature Systems of the Farsight Enclaves
If you take a Farsight Enclaves detachment, all of your Riptides in your army from the Tau Codex, Farsight Enclaves, or the Firebase Cadre can take the ECPA. The Dataslate does not have those permissions, correct. However, the Farsight Enclave modifies all of the Riptides in your army to be able to select them.  Alright, legal. And this time, I'll try to remember.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/04 23:18:13
LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500  6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 23:33:23
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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It is a little bit of a broken situation but, to be fair, it is likely a situation the Authors did not envision when they wrote the Farsight Enclave Supplement.
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8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 00:53:05
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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I usually treat 'army' as 'detachment' in FE supplement. It was the frist one made by them able to ally with the mother codex, and all supplements that came after it have the distinction quite clear.
So, I treat Firebase dataslate as not able to pick anything outside what's being offered in the dataslate itself.
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 00:56:48
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Only issue with that is one piece of errata: They changed one Rule from 'Your army may Not include X or Y' to 'A Farsight Enclave Army can Not include X or Y.' It make no sense for the Authors to make such a chance if 'Your Army' and 'Farsight Enclave Army' already the same thing. There is also something else I want people to consider on why they did not use the terminology 'detachment' within these rules: They already have used this terminology in past rules! This terminology is usually limited to Rules designed to restrict the number of times they can be evoked or prevent certain war-gear from being selected multiple times, but in one very interesting way. It grants the ability for armies made of multiple detachments from the same Codex, such as in 2000+ games where two Primary Detachments exist, to evoke the Rule independently for each detachment. If any other Rule was written to include the same format, by stating the Rule applies to a detachment, it would also allow it to be evoked by individual detachments. Sometimes they want a Rule to be bound to all models taken from that Supplement/Codex regardless of which detachment they are found in, but not binding the entire Army.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/05/05 01:13:31
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 17:48:53
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Drone without a Controller
Colorado
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I'll be totally honest.
Between this thread, the other one, and GW's less than clear language, I am now totally confused about 'who can take what, and when they can take it'.
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Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 19:57:00
Subject: Can you take farsight enclave for the firebase formation?
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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I do agree with, their use of very similar terminology and the problems it causes have been well documented throughout the internet. Yet on this issue I have changed my view a little bit, while I would like for the terminology to be more precise I have accepted that the use of 'detachment' as that precise terminology is incorrect. There needs to be a level between 'Your Army' and 'Detachment,' in order to address all models within a single detachment that might have Rules different to other detachments taken from the same codex. They are rare, but I know of one in the Tau Empire Codex off the top of my head which allows certain weapon systems to be selected based on detachment, not the entire army or even that codex.
The way I look at this is a hierarchy that looks something like this:
Your Army
Codex's Army
Detachment
Force Organization Placement
Unit
Model
War-gear
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8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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