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Any replies are greatly appreciated, And I am running this army for a "School League" and want to see if I can improve, or modify it into higher value points, E.g. 1000, 1500, 2000...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/04 21:14:09
In my opinion the Flakk are unnecessary. Anyone that brings Flyers in a 600 Point game is an *******. IIRC, a Devastator Squad w/ 4 ML (No Flakk) should come in around 150 points. That's a great unit. Set them up in cover and fire away. With that in mind, I would also cut the Missile Launcher from your Tactical Squad. You don't want to have to keep your Tactical Squad sitting still just so you can have a BS 4 Missile Launcher shot. And if you move your squad then the Snapshot Missile Launcher is living on a wing and a prayer. That means you have 35 points to spend. (20 points with the Devastator Squad + 15 points with the Tactical Squad.) And guess what, 35 points is a magical number in C:SM. Why, you might ask? Rhinos. At 35 points a piece you need to get one for your Tactical Squad. Run them up the board.
Your captain has no purpose, he's cc in a ranged army. Second here is the tactical squad. Don't take a power weapon or an are launchers, plasma gun is what I'd take.
Drop the flakk missles anyone with a flyer at 600 pts is a bit of a scumbag
Get some troop transports and give your captain instead a combi weapon like a combi-plasma or a combi-grav
DA army: 3500pts,
admech army: 600pts
ravenguard: 565 pts
Oh my, thank you ionusx, you pointed out some things I clearly, clearly missed! ----------------------------- Alright, the Captain is a huge issue here. Artificer Armor? Not worth the 20 points. I promise you. Relic Blade? No. Primarch's Wrath? Still unnecessary. The largest issue with C:SM is that all their HQs are incredibly expensive. At this point game you are best taking him naked, or with a Combi-Weapon. As for taking a Plasmagun in your Tactical Squad, that's a personal preference. I never take Plasma in my army because I think Melta is a lot better. (Str. 8 / AP 1 vs Str. 7 / AP 2. Many say that Melta's 12" range is a bad thing, but most of the time you are going to Rapid Fire that Plasmagun at 12" anyways. Plus, your list lacks lots of anti-armor 13/14. The Melta would surely help. --------------------------- Try this:
Spoiler:
Captain - (100 Points) - Combi-Weapon (Your choice, I would choose Melta myself) - Primarch's Wrath
Tac Squad - (185 Points) - 10 Man Unit - Meltagun - Rhino - Combi-Weapon (Sergeant)
Tac Squad - (155 Points) - 5 Man Unit - Meltagun - Razorback w/ Lascannon + Two Plasmaguns
Devastator Squad - (130 Points) - 5 Man Unit - x4 Missile Launchers - Signum (Free)
That is 600 Points exactly, IIRC. Sorry, don't have my Codex on hand at the moment.
With this list:
+ Throw your Captain w/ the Five Man Tactical Squad in a Razorback
+ Razorback and Rhino run up the board
+ Long Range Devastator Support.
*Note, if it is an objective game you will need to adjust accordingly. Maybe Combat Squad so that one squad can run up in a Rhino while the other stays on an objective. And if need be, you can start your 5 man Tac Squad outside the Razorback and just use the Razorback as a Predator-Lite (As I call it. Lascannon + Two Plasmaguns is very nice for such a cheap vehicle) and keep them back as well.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/05/05 01:39:54
Noremac wrote: Oh my, thank you ionusx, you pointed out some things I clearly, clearly missed!
-----------------------------
Alright, the Captain is a huge issue here. Artificer Armor? Not worth the 20 points. I promise you. Relic Blade? No. Primarch's Wrath? Still unnecessary. The largest issue with C:SM is that all their HQs are incredibly expensive. At this point game you are best taking him naked, or with a Combi-Weapon. As for taking a Plasmagun in your Tactical Squad, that's a personal preference. I never take Plasma in my army because I think Melta is a lot better. (Str. 8 / AP 1 vs Str. 7 / AP 2. Many say that Melta's 12" range is a bad thing, but most of the time you are going to Rapid Fire that Plasmagun at 12" anyways. Plus, your list lacks lots of anti-armor 13/14. The Melta would surely help.
---------------------------
Try this:
Spoiler:
Captain - (100 Points)
- Combi-Weapon (Your choice, I would choose Melta myself)
- Primarch's Wrath
Tac Squad - (185 Points)
- 10 Man Unit
- Meltagun
- Rhino
- Combi-Weapon (Sergeant)
Tac Squad - (155 Points)
- 5 Man Unit
- Meltagun
- Razorback w/ Lascannon + Two Plasmaguns
Devastator Squad - (130 Points)
- 5 Man Unit
- x4 Missile Launchers
- Signum (Free)
Automatically Appended Next Post: That is 600 Points exactly, IIRC. Sorry, don't have my Codex on hand at the moment.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sorry for another Appended reply, but, I forgot to mention.
With this list:
+ Throw your Captain w/ the Five Man Tactical Squad in a Razorback
+ Razorback and Rhino run up the board
+ Long Range Devastator Support.
*Note, if it is an objective game you will need to adjust accordingly. Maybe Combat Squad so that one squad can run up in a Rhino while the other stays on an objective. And if need be, you can start your 5 man Tac Squad outside the Razorback and just use the Razorback as a Predator-Lite (As I call it. Lascannon + Two Plasmaguns is very nice for such a cheap vehicle) and keep them back as well.
I see what you mean, I mainly decided to go crazy over flak and some form of cc and survivability on my captain just so that I have a way of covering those points if need be. The list you provided looks very suitable for an Imperial Fist's army, and I greatly appreciate it. If you find anything else please do let me know!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/05 09:13:23
Imperial fists are meh. Go ultra mairnes or maybe balck templars
4000+ Points
Tau: 1500ish
[GENERATION 14: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
djames98,
Always glad to help a fellow Dakkalite out my good sir! I've been running Imperial Fists for quite a while now and I've always satisfied. Also, one thing to note, in low point games it's important to get as many boots on the table as possible. A good example I always hear is this:
"Oh, my 600 point Grey Knight list with 10 Terminators will stomp you!"
"Oh, well how will your 11 models handle an Ork mob of 75+ models coming at you?" ------------------------------------------------------
@Glorywarrior,
While that is purely opinion, I respect it, but I have to disagree. If you choose to play a vanilla C:SM army then stay away from Black Templars. They are incredibly cool, but they are just not the same feel as a normal Codex chapter. As for the Blue Smurfs... Oh, I mean Ultramarines, I think that's opinion as well. I don't think it matters what chapter you go with, as long as you enjoy it! I myself can't stand Ultramarines after our holy liege slapped us with the 'best fluff in 40k history', but I know that many of my fellow Space Marine players may slap me silly and scream, "Heresy!" In the end it all comes down to how we started 40k ourselves. We thought, "Which army LOOKS the coolest?" And then we picked a colour scheme we liked!
*Not trying to lash at you or anything, but we should never discourage a fellow player from collecting whatever army he wants! Except Tau. Just don't collect those little fishies, please.
Automatically Appended Next Post: ***********
One more thing for djames98!
***********
This one is a formatting thing, buddy. If you choose to quote an entire army list could you please use the Spoiler feature? I would greatly appreciate it! Helps other thread viewers cut down on the scrolling.
Here's how it should look in terms of formatting:
Spoiler:
INSERT QUOTE
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/05 01:38:23
Noremac wrote: Oh my, thank you ionusx, you pointed out some things I clearly, clearly missed!
-----------------------------
Alright, the Captain is a huge issue here. Artificer Armor? Not worth the 20 points. I promise you. Relic Blade? No. Primarch's Wrath? Still unnecessary. The largest issue with C:SM is that all their HQs are incredibly expensive. At this point game you are best taking him naked, or with a Combi-Weapon. As for taking a Plasmagun in your Tactical Squad, that's a personal preference. I never take Plasma in my army because I think Melta is a lot better. (Str. 8 / AP 1 vs Str. 7 / AP 2. Many say that Melta's 12" range is a bad thing, but most of the time you are going to Rapid Fire that Plasmagun at 12" anyways. Plus, your list lacks lots of anti-armor 13/14. The Melta would surely help.
---------------------------
Try this:
Spoiler:
Captain - (100 Points)
- Combi-Weapon (Your choice, I would choose Melta myself)
- Primarch's Wrath
Tac Squad - (185 Points)
- 10 Man Unit
- Meltagun
- Rhino
- Combi-Weapon (Sergeant)
Tac Squad - (155 Points)
- 5 Man Unit
- Meltagun
- Razorback w/ Lascannon + Two Plasmaguns
Devastator Squad - (130 Points)
- 5 Man Unit
- x4 Missile Launchers
- Signum (Free)
That is 600 Points exactly, IIRC. Sorry, don't have my Codex on hand at the moment.
With this list:
+ Throw your Captain w/ the Five Man Tactical Squad in a Razorback
+ Razorback and Rhino run up the board
+ Long Range Devastator Support.
*Note, if it is an objective game you will need to adjust accordingly. Maybe Combat Squad so that one squad can run up in a Rhino while the other stays on an objective. And if need be, you can start your 5 man Tac Squad outside the Razorback and just use the Razorback as a Predator-Lite (As I call it. Lascannon + Two Plasmaguns is very nice for such a cheap vehicle) and keep them back as well.
i think your being a little unfair, the librarian is a pretty useful HQ. and when youve taken the time to buble wrap him properly a chaplain (or a variant thereof) can be a great addition (i use mine with veterans, assault marines, or terminators)
also dont the rule specifically say that only 5 models may be carried in a razorback, the combat squad is 5 and the HQ would make 6.
1x5 scouts: sniper rifles + are launcher (or 1x6 scouts with sniper rifles and a HB)
devestator rocket team (or plasma cannons)
alternatively id swap out the devestator team for a second tactical team (5 strong) with a razorback transport (assault cannon) and a plasma cannon/rocket launcher/grav cannon
while not as powerful this would let you drive your second team up the field, park the tank behind LOS blocking cover, dispense its boys into a desireable shooting position, and then do its thing. id then use the razorback to pop smoke when conventient. and if anyone make a move on them, your drive the tank around the corner and then derp them in the face with a TLAC, 3 dudes with bolters, and a guy with a pistol. dats a gonna suck for them
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/05 01:55:28
DA army: 3500pts,
admech army: 600pts
ravenguard: 565 pts
ionusx,
A Razorback has a transport capacity of 6, actually. It allows for a 5 man squad w/ an IC (assuming nobody is Bulky or Very Bulky)
And in terms of the Librarian and Chaplain, of course they have their place in any good C:SM army! I typically don't run Chaplains as my Warlords, but I occasionally run them in my second HQ slot for larger games. But in my opinion, these HQs are still quite expensive. I mean, most other races have HQs that come in at quite a lower point cost than even a naked Chaplain. Sure they may not be good, but it is just disappointing that in a small point game, like 600 for this instance, you are forced to use around 1/6 of your army (give or take) on a single model.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I should have worded that better... when I say, "Sure they may not be good," I am, in fact, referring to the cheap HQ options other armies have. (They may not be good in comparison to a Chaplain or Librarian) BUT! In my opinion, I don't always want to dump such a hefty number of points into one model!
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/05/05 02:10:28
Upon sleeping on it, I wonder, because of the Imperial Fists Bolter Training, which re-rolls 1s on hit
Would it be viable to change one squad's Meltagun to a Heavy bolter?
Just pondering it because that will greatly increase my survivability against certain armies like Orks or Tyranids. The Devastators are quite able to destroy most vehicles as long as they get the first move.
The strengths of Imperial Fists in this size game are Tank Hunter on the Devastators, and Bolter Drill on as many other units as you can get. (Note: if you like close range firefights, check out the supplement: Sentinels of Terra. This allows you to reroll all misses with bolters at half range, and you still get the rest of the IF CTs! They also have their own relics!)
I would try to play to these strengths at 600 points by taking lots of bolter-carrying scoring units and then dedicate a Devastator Squad to cracking armor. You'll probably have to destroy one large tank or building and then 2-3 squads of infantry, so these CTs are probably one of the best at this point level; they do both of these things well.
A missile launcher dev team is good, just don't need the flakk. If you do run into fliers later, you can always buy a cheap AA tank for around 75 points.
Bolter carrying Scouts should not be overlooked here. They are BS3 but benefit greatly from bolter drill (and even more so from close range bolter drill). You can also scout them up to start if you have an aggressive army build.
I'm not sure if you are looking to use just the models you have currently, or if you're looking to acquire more... but I like fluffy, non-traditional lists so here's something that sounds fun to me:
Sentinels of Terra (597)
Chapter Tactics: Imperial Fists
Garadon's Tactical Squad (7) - plasma gun, drop pod, Sgt. Garadon: mater crafted bolt pistol, power fist, iron halo, stat line of a Captain, squad is not scoring, it's HQ
Scout up all the bolters and drop in Garadon and his squad to close rang bolter drill their troops either out in the open, or after the devs crack a transport. There are no ablative wounds for the devastators but since the rest of your army is in their face turn 1, they should be fine. Just make sure everything infiltrates into or starts in cover.
Hope this helps you out with ideas that revolve around making the most of their Chapter Tactics.
xTHExCLINCHERx wrote: The strengths of Imperial Fists in this size game are Tank Hunter on the Devastators, and Bolter Drill on as many other units as you can get. (Note: if you like close range firefights, check out the supplement: Sentinels of Terra. This allows you to reroll all misses with bolters at half range, and you still get the rest of the IF CTs! They also have their own relics!)
Spoiler:
I would try to play to these strengths at 600 points by taking lots of bolter-carrying scoring units and then dedicate a Devastator Squad to cracking armor. You'll probably have to destroy one large tank or building and then 2-3 squads of infantry, so these CTs are probably one of the best at this point level; they do both of these things well.
A missile launcher dev team is good, just don't need the flakk. If you do run into fliers later, you can always buy a cheap AA tank for around 75 points.
Bolter carrying Scouts should not be overlooked here. They are BS3 but benefit greatly from bolter drill (and even more so from close range bolter drill). You can also scout them up to start if you have an aggressive army build.
I'm not sure if you are looking to use just the models you have currently, or if you're looking to acquire more... but I like fluffy, non-traditional lists so here's something that sounds fun to me:
Sentinels of Terra (597)
Chapter Tactics: Imperial Fists
Garadon's Tactical Squad (7) - plasma gun, drop pod, Sgt. Garadon: mater crafted bolt pistol, power fist, iron halo, stat line of a Captain, squad is not scoring, it's HQ
Scout up all the bolters and drop in Garadon and his squad to close rang bolter drill their troops either out in the open, or after the devs crack a transport. There are no ablative wounds for the devastators but since the rest of your army is in their face turn 1, they should be fine. Just make sure everything infiltrates into or starts in cover.
Hope this helps you out with ideas that revolve around making the most of their Chapter Tactics.
Looks very interesting. The cheap points of Scouts and the mass amount of bolters albeit their nerf to BS3 does make for a strong composition for close range combat, not forgetting Bolter's are RF weapons.
Schools League is where it's at! Yeah of course the combination of: Hell drakes, Night Scythes, Vendettas, Storm Talons, and I think I saw one storm raven. And of course the FMC, Deamon princes, Greater Deamons, Hive Tyrants, Crones. They cannot be ignored, they kinda have to be taken into consideration.
Well, if air units are going to make an appearance, you could always do something like this to squeeze in a Hunter (go for the one-shot kill on those AV12 units like the Stormraven or Heldrake). I like the Hunter in this situation over the Stalker because you have a 50/50 chance most likely they'll jink your hit.. but if you hit they're probably gonna explode thanks to armourbane. With the stalker, and only having one of them, you'll probably do 2 glancing hits in the end.. enough for a stormtalon or dakka jet I think, but not a Stormraven or Heldrake... so that's why I like a Hunter if you can only take 1 piece of AA... I just think the odds are better for destroying any flier if you hit.
It's all in the rolls. 
4000+ Points
Tau: 1500ish
