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Master of the Forge
Tactical squad, plasma gun, twin linked lascannon razorback
Tactical squad, plasma gun, twin linked lascannon razorback
Tactical squad, plasma gun, twin linked lascannon razorback
Land Speeder, typhoon missile launcher
Land Speeder, typhoon missile launcher
Land Speeder, typhoon missile launcher
Whirlwind
Whirlwind
Whirlwind

Swap out one or two of the whirlwinds for a stalker or two. Your missing Anti Air.

If you down-grade the plasma guns to melta guns you'll have some extra anti-vehicle (since you can't shoot out of the razorbacks anyway from far away, no real reason to take plasma) and save 15 points.

I'd then upgrade one whirlwind to a hunter (since at 1000 points you will probably see one flier... and if it's armor 12 you will have a hard time glancing it to death with a Stormtalon or Stalker.. might as well go for the 1-shot kill IMO). Melta bombs are also nice in case your razorbacks get smashed by a MC, at least you will have an attack that can bring it down. Or you can also spend the extra points to upgrade another Whirlwind to a Stalker if there's lots of fliers.

xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:

I'd then upgrade one whirlwind to a hunter (since at 1000 points you will probably see one flier... and if it's armor 12 you will have a hard time glancing it to death with a Stormtalon or Stalker.....

you might want to recheck your codex, the stalkers str 7 so av 12 vehicles still get penetrated on a 6. Plus the stalker is TL and can engage multiple targets. And you can also use it effectivly against ground units and artillery

ghilliemarine wrote:

xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:

I'd then upgrade one whirlwind to a hunter (since at 1000 points you will probably see one flier... and if it's armor 12 you will have a hard time glancing it to death with a Stormtalon or Stalker.....

you might want to recheck your codex, the stalkers str 7 so av 12 vehicles still get penetrated on a 6. Plus the stalker is TL and can engage multiple targets. And you can also use it effectivly against ground units and artillery

I understand the Codex. All I was trying to say was if you need to drop an AV12 flier in 1 round of shooting from 1 source, I'd rather know that if my one shot hits and they fail the jink/invuln, it has a very high chance of wrecking it thanks to armourbane. If all 4 of the Stalker's shots hit, you need 3/4 to get through the jink/invuln and then get a 5+ on them for a guaranteed kill - but to each his own.

Lets mathhammer this out, two hunters to two stalkers.

Hunters
Versus flyers you have a 50% chance to hit so 1 of the two shots will hit. then it has a 33% chance to do nothing, 8% chance to glance, and still only a 50% chance to do pen. And after all that you get to add +1 to the pen table and you still only have a 50% chance to take it out. So summary, you have a 50% chance to cause 1 hull point.

Versus troops, avg 1 shot will hit, 83% chance to wound. So summary, one dead troop.

Stalkers
Versus flyers you have a 75% chance to since the stalker is TL so you have an avg of 6 shots hitting. Then you have a 66% that will miss, 17% that will glance, and 17% to pen. From the pen you have a 33% chance for a vehicle destroyed result. So summary 2 hull points damage per round.

Versus troops you still have a 75% chance to hit so 6 hits, and a 83% chance to wound thus 5 will wound. So summary 5 dead troops.

The hunter, while it is 5 points cheaper, only has a 50% chance to even get a damaging hull point and will average 1 troop death per round.

The stalker while it is 5pts more expensive, will damage 2 hull points per round and will kill 5 troops per round.

You tell me which is more effective.

ghilliemarine wrote:
Lets mathhammer this out, two hunters to two stalkers.

Hunters
Versus flyers you have a 50% chance to hit so 1 of the two shots will hit. then it has a 33% chance to do nothing, 8% chance to glance, and still only a 50% chance to do pen. And after all that you get to add +1 to the pen table and you still only have a 50% chance to take it out. So summary, you have a 50% chance to cause 1 hull point.

Versus troops, avg 1 shot will hit, 83% chance to wound. So summary, one dead troop.

Stalkers
Versus flyers you have a 75% chance to since the stalker is TL so you have an avg of 6 shots hitting. Then you have a 66% that will miss, 17% that will glance, and 17% to pen. From the pen you have a 33% chance for a vehicle destroyed result. So summary 2 hull points damage per round.

Versus troops you still have a 75% chance to hit so 6 hits, and a 83% chance to wound thus 5 will wound. So summary 5 dead troops.

The hunter, while it is 5 points cheaper, only has a 50% chance to even get a damaging hull point and will average 1 troop death per round.

The stalker while it is 5pts more expensive, will damage 2 hull points per round and will kill 5 troops per round.

You tell me which is more effective.

I understand the point of the Stalker being able to average more hull points and be more effective against alternate targets, and when taking multiple, it is even more powerful.

As I stated before though, I'm not looking to hull point out a flier in a list where only have room for one dedicated piece of AA; I'd rather put my faith in the hopes that the 1 hit penetrates (as opposed to the Stalker's 2) and will be an explodes result, which with armourbane, is unarguably more likely.

Didn't mean to turn this thread into an AA topic though agree to disagree

I'd drop the plasma guns in exchange for something with more range. This is obviously a shooting list, and there's no sense in opting for a weapon that requires you be within 24" to use it.

xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:

ghilliemarine wrote:
Lets mathhammer this out, two hunters to two stalkers.

Hunters
Versus flyers you have a 50% chance to hit so 1 of the two shots will hit. then it has a 33% chance to do nothing, 8% chance to glance, and still only a 50% chance to do pen. And after all that you get to add +1 to the pen table and you still only have a 50% chance to take it out. So summary, you have a 50% chance to cause 1 hull point.

Versus troops, avg 1 shot will hit, 83% chance to wound. So summary, one dead troop.

Stalkers
Versus flyers you have a 75% chance to since the stalker is TL so you have an avg of 6 shots hitting. Then you have a 66% that will miss, 17% that will glance, and 17% to pen. From the pen you have a 33% chance for a vehicle destroyed result. So summary 2 hull points damage per round.

Versus troops you still have a 75% chance to hit so 6 hits, and a 83% chance to wound thus 5 will wound. So summary 5 dead troops.

The hunter, while it is 5 points cheaper, only has a 50% chance to even get a damaging hull point and will average 1 troop death per round.

The stalker while it is 5pts more expensive, will damage 2 hull points per round and will kill 5 troops per round.

You tell me which is more effective.

I understand the point of the Stalker being able to average more hull points and be more effective against alternate targets, and when taking multiple, it is even more powerful.

As I stated before though, I'm not looking to hull point out a flier in a list where only have room for one dedicated piece of AA; I'd rather put my faith in the hopes that the 1 hit penetrates (as opposed to the Stalker's 2) and will be an explodes result, which with armourbane, is unarguably more likely.

Didn't mean to turn this thread into an AA topic though agree to disagree

You are only going to get one pen 50% the time and from there you still only have another 50% chance of destroying it.

The stalker where as will hit one pen per round and has a 33% chance with that hit.

What im trying to say here that the stalker is more gaurenteed to do damage to any and multipul targets and the hunter has only one shot that will hit and of those hits you have a 2/6 chance for it to do nothing, a 1/6 chance to glance, and a 3/6 chance to pen. You cannot even gaurentee a damaging hit on any armour with two hunters where as with two stalkers you will average 2 damaging hits per round.

Aka for his list it would be more effective to use dual stalkers as he can stastically gaurentee more shots to deal damage per round.