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If GW isnt stepping up and solving issues in this next edition, why dont just Dakka get together and make our own rulebook? We could have it start as a new discussion fora with threads about the different rules. We take input from a massive amount of playtesters and fix it the way its suppose to be.

We could do a much better job than GW and we could have it for free just because we do it for the love of our hobby not because we are greedy. Every now and then we can publish a downloadable PDF.

Sure you might say that we then do the job for GW so they can sell their models (which is true), but I would much rather do their sloppy job properly than have another rotten set of GW rules.
Their models are awsome, Those I can buy. Their books are crap and they should know it.

We are not smart enough to do it. You would think after 10 years (maybe more, but it is over 10 years that I have been seeing) of crying/whining/bitching someone would have done it by now that the community (Dakka, Warseer, BoLS etc) would agree to it.

Hell you can't even get the people to agree to FAQ's made by Dakka himself James Bond.

Basically no matter what you do, Espically GW, people will cry moan and bitch no matter what. Hell if GW gave everything for free, people would still complain.

Davor wrote:
We are not smart enough to do it. You would think after 10 years (maybe more, but it is over 10 years that I have been seeing) of crying/whining/bitching someone would have done it by now that the community (Dakka, Warseer, BoLS etc) would agree to it.

Hell you can't even get the people to agree to FAQ's made by Dakka himself James Bond.

Everyone has a different view of what 40k should be, it just happens to be that there's a large proportion of people who agree what it is now is not good. Doesn't mean everyone should agree on what it should be. Also doesn't mean it wouldn't take a lot of work and smart people don't work for free I think there's a ton of people on this forum fully capable of fixing GW's rules to be a lot better and a few who could probably write a full ruleset from the ground up (obviously taking inspiration from other games).

You're just jaded of the people jaded of GW

Basically no matter what you do, Espically GW, people will cry moan and bitch no matter what. Hell if GW gave everything for free, people would still complain.

"Some" people will complain of everything, yes, I agree (not necessarily the same people each time though). But most people are willing to give GW a compliment if they do something good. Go look at some of the early stages of the rumour threads for the Imperial Knight. A bunch of people who are typically complainers were praising GW over that one. Of course then they went and frakked it up by making a Codex out of 1 model which annoyed a lot of people again (not all, mind you).

While the GW 40k books are generally a big damned mess, they're "canon."

If you wanna play with randoms you can't play "a ruleset I found on the internet."

Second, there is no way we could ALL agree on even a single thing, imagine a whole book chock full of rules.

What technically could work is if someone with some real tournament and rule insight (unlike GW) went and made an "official dakkadakka rulesfix" where they basically fix up all the rules that we can't decipher from the official ones and made some changes where the rules are the most slowed. Like a dakka seal of approval stamped houserule set, but more than just a sheet like the ones you get at tournaments.

It would be an immense job though, and with no pay.

A committee wouldn't work. One person (or a very small team of people that already have experience together on similar projects) would have to step up and write it themselves.

Then, once the product is mostly complete, it could be shown to Dakka for feedback and playtesting. That's where the community comes in handy. The team then takes all the play test data, ignores the stupid people, and takes to heart the points that have merit, and edit the rules accordingly. Add polish, pretty pictures, and disseminate.

Yeah, a community ruleset would end up like open source operating systems, terrible consumer level market share, terribly fragmented community, 50 versions that you could potentially play but you'll never find a lot of people on any one of them and there'll be no single version that people agree is best. Maybe a Ubuntu will come up from time to time, but it still won't succeed in revolutionizing anything.

 Purifier wrote:
Second, there is no way we could ALL agree on even a single thing, imagine a whole book chock full of rules.

Not everyone needs to agree on every individual change. If the effort is made, it should be very possible to make some basic changes that greatly improve the game for the majority of people, even if not every change is one they like.

For example, the vendetta change with the new IG 'dex was something that could have been "community patched" long ago. The goal shouldn't be to re-write 40k, but to apply a small set of easy changes that greatly improve it.

 Blacksails wrote:
Then, once the product is mostly complete, it could be shown to Dakka for feedback and playtesting. That's where the community comes in handy. The team then takes all the play test data, ignores the stupid people, and takes to heart the points that have merit, and edit the rules accordingly.

This is the part GW themselves fail to do. If they did this, there'd probably be far less complaints.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yonan wrote:
For example, the vendetta change with the new IG 'dex was something that could have been "community patched" long ago. The goal shouldn't be to re-write 40k, but to apply a small set of easy changes that greatly improve it.

Even after GW released the new rules for the Vendetta it was clear not everyone agrees. Some people think it sucks now, some people think it's still one of the best flyers in the game, some people think it should be 10pts cheaper. Personally I think it shouldn't have been dropped to a 6 transport capacity but otherwise I'm fine with it.

Large communities can't decide on things. You need a small group of people to tell them what it should be, let the community playtest it, then the small group of people spend some time evaluating the validity of the community comments and makes final changes and tweaks.

I agree, I said as much in a previous version of this thread here

 Yonan wrote:
I envision more of an admin organised selection of a few level headed, experienced volunteers to bash it out together. Mob rule would be a bad idea, however input can't hurt.

My, and my friends', "DRAL Rules" have been WIP for the better part of the year. Please visit the thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/568772.page

ok then. fair points that dakka probably couldn't agree. I will probably try to fix the game my self then. I will probably start from the GW rule book and introduce a komp system into it to handle the codices. It will be too much job to write every codex GW will spit out, better to just correct the errors

Iirc, DakkaDakka used to have a DakkaFAQ in the past...anyone else still remember or am I just making stuff up now?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
This is the part GW themselves fail to do. If they did this, there'd probably be far less complaints.

Absolutely, among other things with their game design and business practices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Iirc, DakkaDakka used to have a DakkaFAQ in the past...anyone else still remember or am I just making stuff up now?

Yeah, the 2010 INAT.

You're not going crazy.