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Made in nl
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Now I've been looking at this. Seems like fun but I'm a bit confuzed on where to start.
I know there's a rulebook, but where do I find army point costs and such?

If I look on *cough* Battlescibe *cough* I see different lists. Like the Panzergrenadierkompanie, etc. in all shapes and sizes and I'm just getting lost in there.
Plus what's in the books like Operation Market Garden, are those campaign-books?

It's all so confuzing!

Poor ignorant guardsmen, it be but one of many of the great miracles of the Emperor! The Emperor is magic, like Harry Potter, but more magic! A most real and true SPACE WIZARD! And for the last time... I'm not a space plumber.

1K Vostroyan Firstborn
2K Flylords
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Made in us
Executing Exarch




The big hardbound rulebook comes bundled with another booklet that includes generic force lists covering roughly January through June of 1944 for the big four nations in Europe.

If you're interested in a different campaign, or prefer to get more focus on specific types of units during the above period, then there are various campaign books that include lists during a particular period of time. For instance, if you were interested in building a French list for the 1940 campaign, then you'd get the book Blitzkrieg. If you were interested in building a list for Kursk, then you'd get the book Eastern Front. When picking where you want your list to come from, one important thing to keep in mind is that Flames of War divides World War 2 into three periods. 1939-41 is Early War. 1942-43 is Mid War. And 1944-45 is Late War. Any list from within a given time period is compatible points-wise with any other list from that same time period. So, for instance, while a Polish list from the invasion of Poland is found in Blitzkrieg, and a Japanese list from the conflict with the USSR on the border of Occupied China comes from Rising Sun, the two lists are still compatible as far as points costs are concerned (note that there might be other reasons why such a match-up is a bad idea, but that has more to do with the actual contents of the forces and not points costs). But a Polish list from the invasion of Poland and a German list representing forces fighting against Operation Bagration in the Summer of 1944 are not compatible. Tanks and guns will be more effective in the latter list, and also cost fewer points, leaving the Poles completely outclassed.

So if you decide that you want to dive into the game, figure out which era you want to play in before start investing in anything more than the rulebook.
   
Made in nl
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Just a question about zee Germans. I can only find stuff about the Panzergrenadiers, do they really need transports?
Got a working army builder. No Grenadiers to be found anywhere.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/07 23:01:19


Poor ignorant guardsmen, it be but one of many of the great miracles of the Emperor! The Emperor is magic, like Harry Potter, but more magic! A most real and true SPACE WIZARD! And for the last time... I'm not a space plumber.

1K Vostroyan Firstborn
2K Flylords
600 Pts Orks
3K Ad-Mech 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

I'd really recommend looking around Battlefront's website and the product spotlights in their online store. I'd start here:

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=106

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in nl
Aspirant Tech-Adept






I kind of get it now.

So I'll need the Rulebook, plus the Forces Book.
To field the Panzergrenadiers I'll need the Eastern Front book.
That'll be needed to field: http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=79&ProductID=2869
The PaK 40 guns are like a suport thingy right?
So if I'll field that box (GBX18 SS-Panzergrenadierkompanie) plus GE701 Company HQ, Panzergrenadier & Grenadier and an extra GE703 Panzergrenadier Platoon box it'd be an legal army as a starter?

Poor ignorant guardsmen, it be but one of many of the great miracles of the Emperor! The Emperor is magic, like Harry Potter, but more magic! A most real and true SPACE WIZARD! And for the last time... I'm not a space plumber.

1K Vostroyan Firstborn
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Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
Just a question about zee Germans. I can only find stuff about the Panzergrenadiers, do they really need transports?
Got a working army builder. No Grenadiers to be found anywhere.


Having just started out recently (waiting for my order of Panzergrenadiers myself): www.easyarmy.com is very helpful as an army builder and there's tons of lists available for free. With this game it's not like 40k where there's one list and that defines a given army. There are options out there to represent specific divisions as they would have fought at specific times as well as generic lists. For example, Late War German Infantry lists clock in at 89 different options, and not all of them are Panzergrenadiers.

Highly recommend signing up for a free account and poking around the free lists there if you're looking for how you could build out a force.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/07 23:46:55


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
I kind of get it now.

So I'll need the Rulebook, plus the Forces Book.
To field the Panzergrenadiers I'll need the Eastern Front book.
That'll be needed to field: http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=79&ProductID=2869
The PaK 40 guns are like a suport thingy right?
So if I'll field that box (GBX18 SS-Panzergrenadierkompanie) plus GE701 Company HQ, Panzergrenadier & Grenadier and an extra GE703 Panzergrenadier Platoon box it'd be an legal army as a starter?

If you're going to be playing with an established group, you might want to talk to them and find out what period they play, since Eastern Front is a mid war book (1942-43) and late war (1944-45) is the most popular period. Added to that, GBX18 is a late war box and not mid war. Some people might not care, but it might not have the options you need to make a valid mid war Panzergrenadierkompanie.

That being said, Panzergrenadiers are simply the German name for motorized infantry and can be found in several books and periods.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/08 00:55:40


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in nl
Aspirant Tech-Adept






 Ghaz wrote:
 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
I kind of get it now.

So I'll need the Rulebook, plus the Forces Book.
To field the Panzergrenadiers I'll need the Eastern Front book.
That'll be needed to field: http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=79&ProductID=2869
The PaK 40 guns are like a suport thingy right?
So if I'll field that box (GBX18 SS-Panzergrenadierkompanie) plus GE701 Company HQ, Panzergrenadier & Grenadier and an extra GE703 Panzergrenadier Platoon box it'd be an legal army as a starter?

If you're going to be playing with an established group, you might want to talk to them and find out what period they play, since Eastern Front is a mid war book (1942-43) and late war (1944-45) is the most popular period. Added to that, GBX18 is a late war box and not mid war. Some people might not care, but it might not have the options you need to make a valid mid war Panzergrenadierkompanie.

That being said, Panzergrenadiers are simply the German name for motorized infantry and can be found in several books and periods.


I don't really know. I followed the books info page and it brought me to those kits. Any idea where I'd find the late war rules for them? Would it perhaps be the Cobra book?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/08 01:32:15


Poor ignorant guardsmen, it be but one of many of the great miracles of the Emperor! The Emperor is magic, like Harry Potter, but more magic! A most real and true SPACE WIZARD! And for the last time... I'm not a space plumber.

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Made in us
Sergeant First Class





Northern VA

Grumpy, you'll need a Late War book. I like Grey Wolf, although it's been taken down from the store and my email to Battlefront was that they are updating it like they did Red Bear.

The suggestion to use Easy Army as your army builder is great, and is endorsed by Battlefront. easyarmy.com is the website. There you can filter the list by late war, german, and then you can pick infantry only which is what you're looking for Grenadiers.

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Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

The information page for Eastern Front. I see nothing listing GBX18. All of Battlefront's products are listed with either an 'E' for Early War (1939-1941), an 'M' for Mid War (1942-1943) and an 'L' for Late War (1944-1945). Each entry in the online store list what period(s) that product can be used for.

Again, and I can't stress this enough, if you are planning on joining or playing an existing group please check and see what period(s) that they play. Game balance can be a bit wonky between periods and I find it's about a 70/25/5 percent split between Late/Mid/Early War.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Major





Central,ILL. USA

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
Now I've been looking at this. Seems like fun but I'm a bit confuzed on where to start.
I know there's a rulebook, but where do I find army point costs and such?

If I look on *cough* Battlescibe *cough* I see different lists. Like the Panzergrenadierkompanie, etc. in all shapes and sizes and I'm just getting lost in there.
Plus what's in the books like Operation Market Garden, are those campaign-books?

It's all so confuzing!


I understand the confusing part when starting out.I made the mistake of the timeline when i started.I even spent a nice amount on mid war models that i could not use in LW.We were going to play a open mediterran campaign.
what's in the books like Operation Market Garden, are those campaign-books? yes they are,they contain the lists and background info on the operations.
What i did was like 40k pick a style and nation first,then i did my research then decied on the timeline.Which was easy for me because i am pretty much the GM for are group.But we do still take a vote.Starting out i would go with the BOx set then expand from their with a INtel book..I am not sure if you are joining a group or starting one. The latter being the best.
Alot of people will tell you to use the easy army route,Sorry i may make them mad, that sucks for new players,YOU will need a intel book for diagrams descriptions background etc. first i would recommend one of the d day books to start with.GEt the HArdbacks always if you can afford them they are worth it.The softbounds are good but eventually they end up being hardback complitions anyways.
Enough for now, just my opinion here on this subject.
BTWto everyone my typingand editing skills still suck.

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Made in us
Executing Exarch




 Ghaz wrote:
see nothing listing GBX18.


'GBX' means that it's a German Box set. Specifically, it's the SS Panzergrenadier Company found on this page -

http://www.flamesofwar.com/online_store.aspx?CategoryID=13107

I've got this box myself, and it's a good starting point. But the prone machine gunners in my box had some issues with their heads. I don't know whether it was a one-off fluke, or if it's an issue with many of the boxes, but I haven't heard any complaints about it from anyone else.

The advantage with this particular box is that you get everything that you need for the core of your company. The box includes enough figures to make the company HQ, two full-strength platoons of infantry, four HMGs, and three PAK 40s. However, you need to keep in mind that it's an SS formation and not a regular army formation. The troops are all wearing SS camo smocks. If you do decide to go with this box, make sure that you get a book that has SS Panzergrenadiers in it - preferably a company that has access to PAK 40s.

Unlike the regular army Panzergrenadier Platoon (which was just rereleased in plastic), it doesn't include any transports (the regular army platoon includes four halftracks). But those can be acquired seperately without too much trouble. And since the plastic panzergrenadier platoon comes with halftracks, it more or less shunts you into that transport option. With the SS Panzergrenadier Company, if you decide you want trucks instead of halftracks, then you don't need to purchase unwanted halftracks.

Finally, any panzergrenadier list *will* force you to pay points for the transports. But the game rules allow you to leave them off the table if you want. So you don't need to purchase the actual models until later on. Instead they can be "left off the table" until you're willing to spend the money for them.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






South Dakota

Grumpy...
Here's my advice if you are looking at starting Germans:
Open Fire! is a really great starter for Germans. It has the start of a Grenadier or Panzergrenadier company. All the troops and weapons are easily used both in Mid and Late War. It comes with a full rulebook.
To expand Open Fire! you want to go with other units that are used both in Mid and Late War. Nebelwerfers are a good choice for artillery. 8-rads are great for Recce, and are in many lists. If you want to add some tanks, Panzer IV's and Panthers are probably the way to go (even though I love my StuG's). If you want to go with the Panzergrenadiers, then you will want to take 251's... the most common German Halftrack. EASYARMY.COM will also give you an idea of how often a piece of equipment is used on the variety of lists... and many lists are free when you sign up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/08 17:52:51


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~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate. 
   
Made in nl
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Okay, thanks for the reactions people.
I and a friend are probably starting on this.

Well I guess I'll pass if I need 135 euros to spend on 18 of the tiniest halftracks or trucks just to get started on the basics. Not a single box seemingly have a working Panzergrenadier plantoon or anything. At least from what I can see on EasyArmy. Why do the PaK anti-tank guns need halftracks for poo sakes.

The website doesn't really make it any better. Pretty messy.

@Anpu-adom: Only PDF armies are free.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/05/08 18:34:12


Poor ignorant guardsmen, it be but one of many of the great miracles of the Emperor! The Emperor is magic, like Harry Potter, but more magic! A most real and true SPACE WIZARD! And for the last time... I'm not a space plumber.

1K Vostroyan Firstborn
2K Flylords
600 Pts Orks
3K Ad-Mech 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Eumerin wrote:

Finally, any panzergrenadier list *will* force you to pay points for the transports. But the game rules allow you to leave them off the table if you want. So you don't need to purchase the actual models until later on. Instead they can be "left off the table" until you're willing to spend the money for them.

Not true. The Panzergrenadierkompanies in Atlantik Wall and Fortress Italy both do not come with transports but has the option to buy trucks for 5 points for the platoon.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in nl
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Oh well, Fallschirmjäger it is. They might be fun to.
I have no idea why Panzergrenadiers hate me so much. The Fallschirmjäger are so easy to find and put together an army with.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/08 18:48:13


Poor ignorant guardsmen, it be but one of many of the great miracles of the Emperor! The Emperor is magic, like Harry Potter, but more magic! A most real and true SPACE WIZARD! And for the last time... I'm not a space plumber.

1K Vostroyan Firstborn
2K Flylords
600 Pts Orks
3K Ad-Mech 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Panzergrenadiers are just motorized infantry. They should be in way more lists than Fallschirmjäger

Grenadiers - infantry
Panzergrenadiers - motorized infantry
Gepanzerte Panzergrenadiers - armored motorized infantry
Fallschirmjäger - paratroopers

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
Okay, thanks for the reactions people.
I and a friend are probably starting on this.

Well I guess I'll pass if I need 135 euros to spend on 18 of the tiniest halftracks or trucks just to get started on the basics. Not a single box seemingly have a working Panzergrenadier plantoon or anything. At least from what I can see on EasyArmy. Why do the PaK anti-tank guns need halftracks for poo sakes.


GBX76 is a German regular army Panzergrenadier Platoon with four halftracks.

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=79&CategoryID=13107&PageIndex=7

Of course, at minimum you'd need to buy two boxes to get started (plus the company HQ and various support options). This is in contrast with the box you identified earlier, which by itself forms the core of a company (aside from the transports, obviously).

Anti-tank guns need transports because you might end up bringing them on from reserve. Or, if you're on the attack, you might need to move them up to a position where they have a good line of sight on the enemy. Note that this applies for almost every formation in the game, and not just panzergrenadiers. Of course, once the guns are in place, you'll probably end up sending the transports off the table.
   
Made in us
Major





Central,ILL. USA

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
Oh well, Fallschirmjäger it is. They might be fun to.
I have no idea why Panzergrenadiers hate me so much. The Fallschirmjäger are so easy to find and put together an army with.


Try the open fire route and Buy some Psc 1/2 traxs,trade or sell the Allies part for your traxs. Us Brit players can never have enough Fireflies.So they usually do well for parting with,Same way with the USA PAras.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Saint Louis Mo

I play late War Germans my self here's what you need to do.

First determine what time period you want to play Early War, Mid War, or Late War

Next get a book from one of the periods (there will be a E,M,or L on the spine)

If you go late war and want to play an Infantry army buy Open Fire! If you have a friend who's starting and wants to play either UK or USA have them buy one as well, and swap models this will give you a full army to start with. You will get a full rule book and tokens you will need.

Then expand from there. Buy models based on your local meta. I find it's best to have some AA options as well as some artillery.


 
   
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[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

If you want German infantry and don't want to mess around with transports, just do a Grenadierkompanie.

   
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Obergefreiter




Omaha Beach

 Hordini wrote:
If you want German infantry and don't want to mess around with transports, just do a Grenadierkompanie.


Panzergrenadiers often get better support. (I could be wrong - the last time I looked long and hard at Grenadiers was in v1 out of the Stalingrad book, but I can't see them getting much by way of tanks.)

To the OP, hope this helps:

I am playing a 1500 point LW SS-Panzergrenaiderkampfgruppe list out of Grey Wolf, using the Totenkopf option: Fearless Veterans

Command Section w/ Panzerfausts on the CiC (because I had ten points left over).

Three platoons of Panzergrenadiers (two mandatory, one support). All have the command stand upgraded to panzerfausts to get the SMGs.

Mandatory platoon of 4x Pz IV

Support Platoon of 3x StuGs


This list is tailored to fight British paras. If I didn't know what I was up against I'd have dropped the StuGs and swapped a MG standin each platoon with panzerfaust/mg teams, and added panzerschrecks into the command section, and taken a 2-gun mortar section for smoke and some kind of template.

Hope this gives you an idea of some of the options available and an idea at force construction.
   
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The Main Man






Beast Coast

dethork wrote:
 Hordini wrote:
If you want German infantry and don't want to mess around with transports, just do a Grenadierkompanie.


Panzergrenadiers often get better support. (I could be wrong - the last time I looked long and hard at Grenadiers was in v1 out of the Stalingrad book, but I can't see them getting much by way of tanks.)



It depends on the list you're using, but Grenadiers have come a long way since the V1 Stalingrad book. A lot of the more recent lists can have support that's basically as good as what Panzergrenadiers can get. Pretty much all Grenadier lists have access to robust artillery and assault gun or Panzerjäger/Marder options, and usually at least some tanks. Their infantry is also cheaper (but still very good) so it's easier to take more of it, and if you supplement them with HMGs and AT guns they can put out some pretty respectable firepower.

   
Made in nl
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Oh nothing to worry about. I'm going to go all Fallschrim. Prolly sharing the starter with a friend of mine. Using little bit of greenstuf to do the straps on them and voila. A Fallschirmjägerkompanie from the Fortress Europe book. Everything from the Open Fire box is usable in that list. Or just buy an extra Fallschrimkompanie boxset and use the grenadiers from the Open Fire set as the optional Grenadiers slot. Adding in a Machinegun Platoon or a Light Gun Platoon

Poor ignorant guardsmen, it be but one of many of the great miracles of the Emperor! The Emperor is magic, like Harry Potter, but more magic! A most real and true SPACE WIZARD! And for the last time... I'm not a space plumber.

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Made in gb
1st Lieutenant







Depends on your GS skills to turn grenadiers into FJ's!

Best LW FJ lists are in either 'bridge by bridge' - they have 'con der heyte' as a warrior who gives a gun e.g Pak 40 a feel no pain save basically, plus his uber ambushing panzerfaust trap teams. It's a very hard solid list with decent artillery support too.

Or I think a better list is in 'fortress Italy' these FJ's pass moral tests on a 2+ both company and platoon moral! They basically don't break. You also get access to marders for great anti tank

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